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Office life in theatre 'There's no canteen, but you can't eat at your desk, either'

Caitríona Daly’s new play recalls her life as a receptionist, following the many rules in the corporate world.

“SO, IT’S A pyramid?” I say to the HR manager who has tried to explain the managerial structure of the organisation I have just started working for.

“No”, she says. “It’s not a pyramid. It just looks like one.”

Okay. I can see she’s not going to back down from her POV, and I don’t have the energy or the desire to fight her on it. I’ve been working in offices on and off for the past 20 years, all the while cultivating a moderately successful writing career. There are many writers working office jobs.

Donal Ryan famously returned to his Civil Service gig after the success of The Spinning Heart, and Caitriona Lally was awarded The Rooney Prize for Literature in Trinity College Dublin, where she was also working as a cleaner at the time.

I like working as a receptionist because I like interacting with people, and it doesn’t take up too much of my brain space that I would prefer to save for writing. This particular receptionist job, I had just taken, was about as corporate as you can get. They could dictate how I looked and how I smelled, “Is that Dior Poison you have on? No? Good.” The pay was great, and I had a pension for the first time and health insurance.

The rules issued to me at my onboarding often came with caveats: There are no canteen facilities, but you may eat at your desk. Actually, no, you can’t eat at your desk because you are client-facing. No eating in the boardrooms either, except on the final Thursday every month, when there will be a pizza party with fine wine served there from 6 pm.

“Where can I eat my lunch?” I ask, confused already. “There’s a nice little Italian down the way.” She replies. “And I can bring my sandwich and eat it there?” Of course not.

“Some people have their lunch on the benches by the quays outside.” She says in front of a backdrop of angry seagulls and lashings of rain. Great.

She brings me to the front desk and sits me down in front of two large screens. One was blank, and the other looked like the interface of some kind of cardiac medical device. “If someone calls for Clem, you can transfer them to Donna like this. And if Donna doesn’t pick up, you can transfer them to Valerie, who’ll transfer it to Clem. And if Valerie doesn’t pick up, you can just transfer it to me. Just click my name here and transfer, see?” I nod.

I hadn’t fully understood what she had just explained, but I’m afraid it had something to do with the pyramid she showed me earlier, and I don’t want to ask any questions in case it comes across that I haven’t been listening. It’s probably better to learn on the job. I’ll be fine, I assure her. I have the numbers for the couriers and a long list of staff names in front of me, whom I instantly start creating imaginary personalities and avatars for in my head. The HR manager turns up the flatscreen TV in front of my desk before she goes. Sky News: more bombing; more deaths; more environmental disasters; more dangerous megalomaniacs doing catastrophic things, and I get to sit here and watch them all day long. Lucky me.

Playing ball

As my time goes on, more rules become apparent. If the HR manager tells me she likes my top, and it looks like something she wore to Break for The Border in the 90s, it means that she doesn’t like it and I am never to wear it again, I have been warned.

If one of the secretarial staff tell me that they never received my email about uncollected post, I am not to send them on a copy of the time stamped email I sent them on Monday. They’ve worked here way longer than I have and if they say they never received it, they never received it. Another associate makes it clear to me that it is my job, as receptionist, to ensure the toilets are flushed. This was not in the job description when I applied.

I become absorbed by these worlds with their written and unwritten rules. The dynamics at play and the things me and my colleagues do to get by as the large sky news screen looms. Is the world ending around us? Are we supposed to do something about it? Does the photocopier need a new toner cartridge? How else would I pay my bills?

“We need more Barry’s Gold Blend Tea Bags, that’s a special order.” the HR Manager says to me one day as I sit there dissociating in front of the TV screen. Hope you can contain your excitement.” She says. “You’ll probably write a play about us one day.”

I probably will.

The world premiere production of The Lunch Punch Power Hour in Conference Room 4, written by Caitríona Daly and directed by Raymond Keane, is coming to the Peacock Stage at the Abbey Theatre from 31 July to 6 September 2025. For tickets and further info, check out abbeytheatre.ieCaitríona Daly is a playwright and screenwriter from Dublin. She was the eighth recipient of the Irish Theatre Institute’s Phelim Donlon Bursary and Residency Award. 

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21 Comments
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    Mute Ciaro
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:51 PM

    Alan shatter, fuck off. I’ll vote yes for a 100% writedown in bank debt, convictions for all the culprits who are still living and an admission of guilt for those who are deceased.
    Otherwise I’ll vote no forever, I’ve had enough of being fucked over by your spineless government.

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    Mute Mark Gerard Lochlainn
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:32 PM

    Here here….!

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    Mute Mark Gerard Lochlainn
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:33 PM

    Here here…..!

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    Mute Andrew
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:21 PM

    Still can’t find it, Mark.

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    Mute Billygoatmuff
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:48 PM

    Can we just save a few quid by doing the second referendum 1st and forget about the 1st referendum altogether ; )

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    Mute Buckwheat MacMillan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:45 PM

    Gilmore ruled out a 2nd Lisbon referendum as well if I recall correctly

    28
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    Mute Sean Higgins
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:56 PM

    I am voting No………

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    Mute Eileen Gabbett
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:49 PM

    I will be voting No .

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    Mute Liam Ó Broin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:10 PM

    I will be voting No also.

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:48 PM

    Let the madness begin.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:15 AM

    Dermot you and I tend not to agree but I have to agree with you here.
    Given the number of people saying they’ll vote no for any reason other than the actual contents of the treaty the debate is going to be a fiasco.

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:22 AM

    It’s shaping up to be a fiasco already Gary, judging by VB tonight :P

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    Mute David McDermott
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:11 PM

    As long as the banks debts are considered Ireland’s debt they can fudge off. They are not the people’s debts. EU wouldn’t let us burn bond holders so as far as I’m concerned they can foot the bill

    58
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    Mute Enda Lee
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:58 PM

    Clearly a split between FG and Labour about holding it a second time. Aside from making fools out of each other, is there anything they can agree on?

    56
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    Mute Eileen Gabbett
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:49 PM

    only telling porkies .

    12
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    Mute God's Horse
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:01 PM

    Shatter wet the bed again.

    49
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    Mute Stephen O'Connell
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:48 PM

    This is the one occasion where I would have to agree with the government. We need to pass this referendum

    47
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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:52 PM

    why? it will be ratified in europe no matter the outcome of our referendum, this is a fine opportunity to show displeasure at the governments lies

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    Mute Patrick O'Brien
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:16 PM

    So if this treaty was in force would it have stopped our economic meltdown? I don’t see that it would. Although I’m yet to actually see the treaty…

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    Mute Adrian De Cleir
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:38 PM

    Patrick, we probably wouldn’t have needed a bailout if we had been following the policies that the treaty puts forward.

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    Mute Eoin Sher
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:51 PM

    Adrian,
    one word – banks!

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    Mute Glyn Carragher
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:20 PM

    Mmmmm we need to pass this one smacks of “come the revolution you will do what your told”

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:39 PM

    He gives me the feeling he would also be willing to rule out the result of the next general election if and when it goes against him.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:41 PM

    @revolting Peasant, you could engage your brain, vote on the referendum because you believe it will or won’t be good for the country ?????????????????? vote yes or no on the referendum issue. Voting no to simply show your displeasure at the government is daft. Probably won’t bring an election any closer, but you are entitled to sulk, not look at the issue and vote no because your sulking. Great logic ok

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:49 PM

    read the whole comment Tom

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:05 PM

    Peasant your point is to vote no as a protest, of course it makes a difference whether we vote yes or no

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:15 PM

    i answered this question in a lower post, i do believe we should disqualify ourselves from any more european ‘help’, but what i allude to here is that this ratification will go ahead no matter the outcome of our referendum, do you really think, given recent history, that we would be allowed to vote on anything that matters? look at what happened in Greece with their proposed referendum

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    Mute Eileen Gabbett
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:44 PM

    No , No .

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    Mute Ryan Ó Giobúin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:08 PM

    From the Economist regarding the treaty: (Full text http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2011/12/euro-zones-treaties)

    “All this sets up not just a two-tier EU (with Britain in the outer edge), but perhaps also a two-tier euro zone. On the current draft, Ireland will not be able to veto the new intergovernmental treaty. But wealthy Germany alone can block the ESM treaty, and can block decisions to grant aid to any country.”

    This is what the business world themselves are saying. Just wonder will our government say the same to the public. Don’t be fools, this will tie us to the will of Germany and big EU nations. Its not good for us, not good for democracy in Europe. Unity in Diversity, if it was ever existant, will be dead in the water. From now on, Deutschland uber alles.

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:24 PM

    Tom Sullivan provides this a few posts down, i find it extremely confusing why anyone would even consider voting for this
    3. The ESM, its property, funding and assets, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall enjoy immunity from every form of judicial process except to the extent that the ESM expressly waives its immunity for the purpose of any proceedings or by the terms of any contract, including the documentation of the funding instruments.
    4. The property, funding and assets of the ESM shall, wherever located and by whomsoever held, be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation or any other form of seizure, taking or foreclosure by executive, judicial, administrative or legislative action.
    5. The archives of the ESM and all documents belonging to the ESM or held by it, shall be inviolable.

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    Mute skeolawn
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:36 PM

    No, we don’t.

    It might appear to be in our interest but we’ve had a few years of that now and it hasn’t worked.

    Chuck the treaty and get on with the job of rebuilding Ireland from the ashes that will be left.

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    Mute John O'Neill
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    Feb 29th 2012, 12:50 AM

    The shirts get bluer and bluer. You vill do as ve say schnell!

    20
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    Mute Graham Crosbie
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    Feb 29th 2012, 9:39 PM

    easy to spot your a real fine gael fine fail voter stephen your pathetic

    2
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    Mute mart_n
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:02 PM

    “the importance of giving a message to Europe that we recognise the need to engage in sensible financial policies.”

    I think that by sticking to agreements outlined in our bailout program, that we are already sending out the message that we need to and indeed want to engage in sensible financial policies. Voting no to this referendum would not negate that message, in my own opinion. All it says is that we want to do it our way rather than under the threat of sanctions and disciplinary action.

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    Mute Mike Hall
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:00 PM

    Yes, and we demand reform of the failed currency union, the banning of casino banking & policies for economic growth and employment, not the complete opposite.

    See my post below also.

    Vote NO to colonial economics.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:27 PM

    I’d ask everybody to watch the bias that will come from newstalk106 and RTE who will no doubt take the yes side, it will be their job to spread fear of being expelled from the eu and exagerate the insigificant amount of new jobs everytime one is created while ignoring the hundreds of jobs that are being lost, to convey a false feeling of we’re coming out of this crisis. During lisbon one 52% people were against the treaty but 100% of presenters on newstalk were yes voters and didn’t hide it.

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    Mute Niamh Byrne
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:41 PM

    I should hope they are all a bit older and wiser now.

    21
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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:53 PM

    yep Martin, was listening to Montgrief earlier
    and you got it, he’s pushing the yes agenda,
    well,, thats goodbye forever Monty boy from me

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:25 PM

    Montgrief is an establishment hack. Whatever the establishment line is, he pushes it. I’m pretty sure its in his job description.

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    Mute Francis Stokes
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:13 PM

    Have we learned from our mistakes from past treaty’s. I think if the people say no that should be respected. In a democratic society we vote once and that is it the majority vote should stand.I think that there was one treaty that we had to vote on again. in the past. This time it should be explained properly to the people with no0 treats and let the people decide on the issue.

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    Mute jimbo
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:24 PM

    no on the first time and no the second time shatter so fcuk off…

    39
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    Mute Niamh Byrne
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:39 PM

    The arrogance of an mep who thinks he knows our constitution better than our attorney general….apologies to any germans….but have guess where he is from???
    A senior German MEP has told RTÉ News he is surprised the Government has decided to call a referendum because the intergovernmental treaty “did not involve a transfer of sovereignty of the country”.
    Elmar Brok MEP, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s CDU Party, said the fiscal compact “doesn’t change anything”.
    As I said on a post regarding greece the german ministers need to use some diplomacy and know when to keep their mouths shut.

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    Mute skeolawn
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:39 PM

    .. because the sovereignty of the country was already transferred by Fianna Failed.

    Now we get our chance to vote on it.

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    Mute Barry Morgan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:08 PM

    no and no

    34
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    Mute Jo Kennedy
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:24 PM

    If we vote no there will be another “opportunity” for us all to change our minds. No matter how many times we get to vote my vote will say no. Although I am under no illusions that it will make a blind bit of difference. They don’t need Ireland to vote yes if they get their other votes in Europe.

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    Mute David Higgins
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    Feb 28th 2012, 6:50 PM

    Old news. Gilmore just ruled it out on Six One.

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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:44 PM

    A split in the ranks David??? Tut tut tut….

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    Mute john g mcgrath
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:46 PM

    And we all believe Gilmore ?

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    Mute Hairy Date
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:07 PM

    Gilmore ruled it out today, did he? That cracks me up. What Eamon Gilmore says today carries about as much weight as a fart in the wind might tomorrow.

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    Mute Paul
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:22 PM

    Ireland will be like Greece or Italy if Berlin dos’t not like the out come of this referendum then will we see a taoieach send in from goldman sachs so what ever the people say we will not be taking on board

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    Mute Eileen Gabbett
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:48 PM

    John g mc G
    of course I believe Gilmore as much as I believe Kenny. Never.

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    Mute Chris Boyd
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:07 PM

    We know that Labour has absolutely no say in the Government. They are only there to keep the union heads in line.

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    Mute Mark Mac
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:55 PM

    the reason Gilmore is being cocky is because he knows this treaty doesnt matter a dime. theyre giving us a false sense of freedom by giving us a vote because they know Europe doesnt ‘need’ it, or us, to ratify it.

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    Mute Mx
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:38 PM

    We will vote no, then vote again and again until it’s a yes, long live European Democracy

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    Mute God's Horse
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:12 PM

    If FF, FG, Lab, IBEC, the Unions, and the rest of the establishment say Vote yes, I be voting NO.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:31 AM

    Yes let’s vote against the way our business organisations would vote. I mean what would business organisations know about anything.

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    Mute Matt Donovan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:32 PM

    Hopefully the people will vote NO!!! Lisbon or Nice didn’t deliver on their promises & our present government are about screwing over the people in favour of German banks. I anticipate a 2nd vote in case our masters aren’t too happy with us. As for Gilmore, well let’s just say I think Labour will go the way of the Greens. As as for FF, it’s laughable for them to be preaching, them rescuing the economy is like letting the captain of the Costa Concordia run the salvage operation…

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    Mute Darren Parslow
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:20 PM

    #dejavu Lisbon/ Nice.

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    Mute Annette Kelly
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:47 PM

    yes I agree Darren

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    Mute You Have Been Assimilated
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:19 PM

    No and no and no…..
    I really cannot understand why people change their vote on the say-so of Dear Leader. Unless of course it is to change from yes to no for the simple reason of upholding our democracy.

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    Mute Matthew Mark
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:36 PM

    Couldnt care less how many referenda they have. No means no means no.

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:56 PM

    Let’s hope we have learned from previous referenda then!! A resounding NO should mean no re-hash!

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    Mute Karl Doyle
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:22 PM

    And the childish behavior by government begins.

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    Mute Brendan Rochford
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:52 PM

    well at last we can get our say. I have voted yes twice but by god its a no now.it will be defeated because the goverment should have burned the bondholders.this is now our time as the people of this country have taken there time and slowly but surely have grown weary of all the crap we had to listen to over the last two yrs. its payback time hopefully

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    Mute Rommel Burke
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:56 PM

    People will vote NO to remind the Government that they would like them to represent the people for a change. However whilst I doubt the government will take this on board either way, it is a possibility given a NO majority. Which in turn means for me that a yes vote is out of the question.

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    Mute Mark Gerard Lochlainn
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:38 PM

    Vote no all the way…

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    Mute Daniel R
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:36 PM

    The outstretched decision time on wether to have the referendum gave ample time for planning the propaganda slogans. Let the excitement begin, but no matter how good it gets, I’m still voting NO

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:49 PM

    They can’t print the propaganda slogans, because Sinn Fein robbed all the ink :-o

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 29th 2012, 3:55 AM

    Good man Daniel R. We’re not for sale.

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    Mute raymelody
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:59 PM

    I wonder if Inda or Joan will turn up on Vincent brown over the next few weeks let the circus begin

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:10 PM

    i hope this is the topic tonight, was crap last night, no one would let anyone else talk, i found it interesting that the fg representative seemed to be more on the side of the governments critics, while the indo reporter was, as usual, fully behind continuing the current economic policy

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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Feb 28th 2012, 11:01 PM

    Does anybody remember SF arguing the point on the last treaties, that we could get a better deal before voting “YES” and Fg/Labour calling that idea total twaddle and economic treason. If we didnt vote “yes” last time, then our economy would go to crap and that unemployment, house prices etc would go to crap…. Thank GOD we voted yest to the last treaty (second time round) and that this didnt happen … . FG and labour gave us such good advice last time out, and they didnt lie coming into the election last year… I know where the safe bet lies ;) Oh… FG/Labour also said last time out that Iceland was a basket case for defaulting on their Banking debt ( not the tax payers debt) …………… Emmmmmmmm Iceland was the only European country to have their credit rating increased this time out …. what an example for us to follow ….. :) Thanks Emda… We know what we are going to vote, irrespecttive of you dirty tricks :)

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    Mute Gis Bayertz
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:23 PM

    He can go and f…. Off!

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    Mute John
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:02 PM

    Alan Shatter and his comments on recent Referendum’s – haven’t always made comfortable bedfellows!

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    Mute B7584
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:38 PM

    The only reason FF are backing a Yes campaign is to keep europe sweet for all those super pen pushing jobs they will all get.
    MEP for SFA.

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    Mute Sharon Larkin
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    Feb 29th 2012, 12:25 AM

    I’ve an idea. We’ll tell the government we’ll give them their yes vote if they burn the bond holders first. Then we’ll do a government standard operation procedure and do a uturn on what we said before the vote and vote no.

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    Mute Liam Ó Broin
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    Feb 29th 2012, 12:48 AM

    That is, in fact, an awesome idea!

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:36 AM

    So what exactly would burning the bondholders fix?
    Tax revenue + 15 billion from the Troika = Government services, PS wages and Social welfare etc
    Plus the bondholder money from the Troika which is added to the nation debt.

    So you’ll notice that burning the bondholders will help somewhat in the long term it won’t do diddly squat to stop the 15 billion we’re over spending. It also won’t change the fact that most of the money we have borrowed and will borrow is for day to day spending and not the banks.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:32 AM

    So let me get this straight you’re saying we’re spending an extra *15 billion* on just “government wage and expenses bills, with a few Quid to top up their buddies”. Do you even believe that?

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    Mute Rommel Burke
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:55 PM

    I didn’t inhale?

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    Mute Stephen Maher
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:14 PM

    “ve have vays of making you vote Ja”
    the cun#ery begins!!!

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    Mute Karl O Flynn
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:28 PM

    Checkout “fiscal compact”
    Wikipedia.org. Very interesting what it might mean for us seen as we are already so debt laden. Vote no!!!

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    Mute damien chaney
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:30 PM

    Rip up the promissory notes and I’ll consider a yes, consider I said consider

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    Mute Dec Rowe
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:39 PM

    NO!

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    Mute Pilib O Muiregan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:07 PM

    Revolting Peasant ‘this is a fine
    opportunity to show
    displeasure at the
    governments lies’. This is another thing wrong with Irish politics. The vast majority off Irish people WIll NOT read the treaty. You will have the protest NO vote on the governments record to date. You will have those voting yes because there party says so. Yet the minority off people will take the time to read the treaty, read and listen to the arguements for and against and make an informed decision.

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:15 PM

    @pilib maybe you could look at the rest of the comment, the outcome of this vote appears meaningless as the eu dont need a yes vote from us, we have no veto, they just need 12 countries to ratify, i would be the last person to advocate loyalty or punishment voting if i thought for one second the outcome could change anything

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    Mute Neil Kettles
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:34 PM

    It would be worth voting no just to make the overpaid reality dodgers sweat a bit!

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    Mute Shane Gleeson
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:51 PM

    If you don’t think the outcome matters why are you getting so hot and bothered about voting No?

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:05 PM

    i think the outcome wont matter in relation to the treaty, but i think a no vote would send a clear message to fg and labour that a big % of Irish people are extremely frustrated with their lies and scare mongering

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:16 PM

    I have read the draft treaty and I will read the final version. On the basis of what I have read so far, I’ll be voting no. The fact that I detest this contemptable government is neither here nor there.

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    Mute Hairy Date
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:45 PM

    An informed decision…I’m informed enough to know that our political representatives will never experience as much as a tiny fraction of the austerity they appear so keen to inflict on the rest of the population.

    To experience austerity, one is required to place ones hand in ones own pocket with a view to spending ones own money.

    Irish politicians have three pension plans. One of those pension plans is referred to in governmental circles as a “salary”, another of those pension plans is can referred to as an unvouched expense, the third of course is the pension itself. They have allowances for getting up in the morning, those allowances continue to insulate our representatives throughout the day, and those same allowances tuck them safely into bed at night. Smug as a bug in a rug. Insulated and aloof from the rest of the community.

    I am well informed enough to know this much: when I see an elected representatives take a bite of the same shit sandwich he prepared and served up to me, it is then I will begin to consider a YES vote to help him on his way.

    Until then they can kiss my furry butt.

    Austerity is not a political game of pass the parcel. We are all supposedly in this together and to date I have seen little evidence that might substantiate that such is the case. Clearly it is not so……

    NO it was, NO it is, and NO it will most likely be for the foreseeable future.

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    Mute Mark Rodgers
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:58 PM

    Giving two fingers to the Government or the EU or the Troika by voting with the likes of Joe Higgins, Clare Dale, Aenghus O’Snodaigh and Shane Ross just gives me the creeps!

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    Mute Ryan Ó Giobúin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:16 PM

    you should never vote according to how others are voting, either to be like them or not. You vote on your informed opinion regarding the topic. I am voting against it because it does nothing to fix the current crisis, only putting down rules for when the mess is cleared up (God knows how!)

    What we need is an agreement among EU nations, excluding none, on how to solve the current problems. Then, start planning for the future.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:38 AM

    No offence to anyone but when the hard left in unison calls for a vote one way I have to assume it’s safer to vote the other way.

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:30 AM

    I’ll vote no because personally I believe it’s premature to be introducing such a move when too many countries are running a deficit, in times of boom and stability it would have been prudent to adopt such a treaty but that’s hindsight, maybe when the actual crisis is solved then we can think about stricter rules on spending.

    I don’t buy into the whole “vote on EU membership” lies at all, nor do i think we would be cast aside from any further funding for voting no, if the EU cut us loose it would be just as detrimental to their whole project as to us.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:39 AM

    Here’s what Davy Stockbrokers think
    “Ireland has little choice but to adopt new treaty, which will enshrine two fiscal rules in Irish law
    • The Irish government intends to ratify the new European fiscal compact treaty by end-March.
    • The key innovation in the new treaty is a commitment to enshrine two fiscal rules in Irish law: Ireland’s structural budget deficit must adhere to a limit of 0.5% of nominal GDP, and debt must be reduced to 60% of GDP.
    • Ireland has little choice but to adopt the treaty given that ratification is a pre-condition for securing future ESM funding.
    Structural budget deficit target of 0.5% is a poor choice
    • The structural deficit is an abstract economic concept that cannot be observed with certainty.
    • For example, the IMF estimates that Ireland ran a structural budget deficit of 5.4% of GDP in 2006, whereas the EU Commission estimates that Ireland ran a surplus of 2.2% the same year.
    • Markets are unlikely to derive confidence in fiscal policy from budgetary targets they cannot observe.
    Treaty does not go far enough; IMF proposals that could have preserved Ireland’s creditworthiness are not included
    • The fiscal compact would have had no bearing on the collapse in Ireland’s public finances had it been adopted at the inception of the euro. Ireland adhered to the Stability and Growth Pact rules prior to the collapse of the construction sector.
    • However, the IMF has proposed mutual insurance mechanisms for the euro area that could have preserved Ireland’s creditworthiness.
    • Ireland should actively advocate the IMF’s recommendations, not least because they highlight that the sovereign has borne too high a cost in recapitalising banks and deserves additional support from Europe.”
    http://www.davy.ie/content/pubarticles/fiscalcompact20120227.pdf

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 29th 2012, 4:00 AM

    Thank you Gary. If a stockbroker is advocating a YES vote hell will freeze over before I’d consider a Yes. Not that I would have anyway but now you have erased any doubts. 100% NO. Not for sale

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    Mute Niamh Byrne
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    Feb 29th 2012, 8:08 AM

    On the announcement that ireland is to hold a referendum the markets reacted against democracy, the euro slid against the dollar. Markets do not like democracy.

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    Mute Rommel Burke
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    Feb 29th 2012, 10:16 AM

    Cheers Gary. Good to know another crowd of leeches with no interest in the fate of Irish people think the treaty doesn’t even go far enough!

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:12 PM

    Yes imagine businesses with relevant expertise saying a yes vote would be a good idea. What would these employers know. I’m going to immediately take Sinn Fein’s advice on economic matters, with their hard left policies and track record of telling people what they want to hear.

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:28 PM

    Yes Gary. Imagine a business with the relevant expertise of making fake money on computer screens having a clue what this Treaty will mean to those of us that make a living in the real world.

    I’m beginning to love you Gary. You are the funniest guy from the YES side. Your posts always bring a smile to my face. ;)

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:29 PM

    Your lack of answers are funny, the smugness not so much.

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 29th 2012, 2:37 PM

    Gary. I await your answers to rommel’s question levied at you the other day on the Greek thread regarding Goldman Sach’s help re cooking the books and the EU’s knowledge of same. One you chose to ignore. Back to you…

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 8:34 PM

    Which question was that exactly?

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    Mute Ryan Ó Giobúin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:10 PM

    Anyone know where the full text of the treaty can be found? I have been googling for it, but no luck

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:27 PM
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    Mute Ryan Ó Giobúin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:33 PM
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    Mute Ryan Ó Giobúin
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:38 PM

    Sorry Revolting Peasant, your comment didn’t appear until after I posted my last one. Thanks!

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    Mute Karl Doyle
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:22 PM

    And the childishness begins.

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    Mute Adrian De Cleir
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:42 PM

    Can I ask a question to the people that are already saying no, why are you voting no? Please reference the treaty itself.

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    Mute B7584
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:51 PM

    I want to see both the yes & no campaigns before choosing,everyone needs to but a ‘yes for jobs’ campaign was lisbons selling point & look how that turned out.

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:59 PM

    It’s not a treaty, firstly. Secondly you can read the FISCAL COMPACT on the departments website. I have read it and it decrees all sovereign debt to be cleared within 20 years timeframe.. For starters that means 10billion per annum for the next 20 years.. Along with reducing the deficit and keeping to a balanced budget… We are already crumbling as a nation and an economy.. So add the above noose round our necks and do the math! … And that’s just my own main reason why.. There are many more reasons also.. I suggest you read the compact and advise what advantages ( in reality) it has for us

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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:00 PM

    lets turn this around adrian old boy,
    i know you’ll be voting yes.
    please don’t bother with the
    “ill be waiting for the full debate to decide” crap,
    u know and i know and anyone whose been on the journo for a while will know
    what way you’ll vote,

    so, why will u vote yes
    and please reference the treaty itself.
    thanking u in advance…..
    oh, and good luck with it :-)

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:23 PM

    How about this for starters… from Article 32 of the Treaty…
    3. The ESM, its property, funding and assets, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall enjoy immunity from every form of judicial process except to the extent that the ESM expressly waives its immunity for the purpose of any proceedings or by the terms of any contract, including the documentation of the funding instruments.
    4. The property, funding and assets of the ESM shall, wherever located and by whomsoever held, be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation or any other form of seizure, taking or foreclosure by executive, judicial, administrative or legislative action.
    5. The archives of the ESM and all documents belonging to the ESM or held by it, shall be inviolable.

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:38 PM

    goddam Tom, am i reading that wrong or is it pretty much saying it will have immunity from the courts unless it consents to jurisdiction? did someone mention democracy? is any amount of money worth complete absence of accountability?

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Feb 28th 2012, 9:27 PM

    @Revolting Yes, you are reading it correctly. In effect, this treaty sets up an unaccountable bankocracy that is beyond the reach of any national or supranational legal system.

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    Mute You Have Been Assimilated
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    Feb 28th 2012, 11:08 PM

    Article 9
    Building upon the economic policy coordination as defined in the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, the Contracting Parties undertake to work jointly towards an economic policy fostering the smooth functioning of the Economic and Monetary Union and economic growth through enhanced convergence and competitiveness….

    Article 11
    With a view to benchmarking best practices and working towards a more closely coordinated economic policy, the Contracting Parties ensure that all major economic policy reforms that they plan to undertake will be discussed ex-ante and, where appropriate, coordinated among themselves. This coordination shall involve the institutions of the European Union as required by European Union law.

    [ex-ante == before the event]

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    Mute Adrian De Cleir
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    Feb 28th 2012, 11:23 PM

    @Joseph, Ill give you an answer that is as honest and straight up as I possibly can be.

    1. After much protesting on the streets, moaning, and like minded anger during the FF era at the way we created a massive sovereign debt out of failed banks I watched on in disappointment as people chose to vote for FG/Lab who were openly vocal about continuing those policies. So my posts here are often devils advocatish because Im trying to remind people to stop jumping on quick decisions based on other issues (in this case, austerity/bank debt),and to basically take responsibility as oppose to playing the blame game constantly. Some of the comments here are too rushed , instant No’s , not even considering giving it thought.

    2. My vote wont be based on ego or stubbornness, I dont know how Im voting yet, thats the honest truth, but if I am dead set one way for 5 months and the day before the referendum I notice a line in the treaty that i dont like, I will have no issue changing my mind in an instant. Im not into “sides”.

    3. I wont lie, I have a bias , something that worries me, im in the middle of getting a business going, I get support with from the enterprise board, local partnership, FAS, and everything I can possibly get my hands on. Im relying on an enterprise allowance for this to work, for the first 6 months to a year anyway. And maybe hopefully a grant. What Im trying to say is Im relying on a default not happening, and relying on the money thats keeping this country afloat, because if that goes Ill lose all that support, and leaving the country will be the best option at that stage. Dont worry though, I wont vote based on that if I dont like the treaty. Im just being honest about my biased situation.

    I just hope this doesnt turn into another Lisbon fiasco where there was complete lies and scaremongering from both the Yes and No sides. Im going to read it as best I can myself, Im not stupid, and have patience, so I might as well.

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    Mute Adrian De Cleir
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    Feb 28th 2012, 11:35 PM

    Seriously, go below this, and read some of the comments, Im not by any means saying this applies to every no voter here at all at all, but look at the stuff some people are saying and the amount of thumbs ups they are getting, and their reasons for voting no. Its insane! Its pure revenge and anger, yet ironically the vote TAKES AWAY power from Kenny and pals. Im sorry its just madness.

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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Feb 28th 2012, 11:54 PM

    Fair answer Adrian, thanks for taking the time to put a thoughtful post together.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:27 AM

    Adrian. I often disagree with the mob in here but it honestly kinda shocks me to see all the rabid demands for a no vote based on anything but the contents of this fiscal compact. I’ve seen less petty children in a playground. Many are salivating as they seem to think a no vote will magically sort out all our financial problems, which it really won’t.
    The chances are if we vote no we’ll have to either stop borrowing or borrow at high rates off the bond markets. Both of these will have nasty consequences and will likely make things worse.

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    Mute Gerry Kelly
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:19 PM

    Best of 3

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    Mute Shane Gleeson
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:31 PM

    Voting No to a treaty that will place into Irish law essentially what we should have been following under the Growth and Stability pact (which incidentally, if we had followed we might not be so screwed). Top marks guys.

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    Mute Revolting Peasant
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:35 PM

    dont you mean ‘goys’?

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:59 PM

    Eh we have been following it since the Maastricht Treaty btw Shane that was 20 years ago. The banking f*** up and the ECB/EU reaction to it is what screwed us. Top marks Mr. Gleeson on not knowing what you are talking about. Guess you will be voting yes.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Feb 28th 2012, 11:36 PM

    Sorry Shane check yor facts we never broke the growth and stability pact,but would you like to guess which two did or shall i tell you?

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    Mute Shane Gleeson
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    Feb 29th 2012, 12:33 AM

    We’ve been running a 20bn deficit for the last three years due to over reliance on unsustainable taxes. So no, we haven’t been following it. The ECB had nothing to do with that.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Feb 29th 2012, 1:18 AM

    Nope your wrong. If you don’t believe me check out prime time on the rte playback and there you will see a German MEP saying Ireland stuck to the rules.

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    Mute You Have Been Assimilated
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    Feb 28th 2012, 10:27 PM

    Ah now… there’s no need to resort to that.
    NO it shall be…. poor Paul is afraid.

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    Mute Ciaro
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:05 PM

    I’m looking forward to the spineless government staying true to the McKenna ruling.

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    Mute Liam Byrne
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    Feb 29th 2012, 5:42 PM

    “And I believe the majority of people don’t want ever again to have a government that can spend the way past governments did spend,” he added.

    And yet FG & Labour still spend in many similar ways, including paying unsecured bondholders and breaking their own pay caps.

    Farcical!

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    Mute Mick Sheahan
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    Mar 1st 2012, 5:19 AM

    and 6 million in expenses…..

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    Mute Liam Byrne
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    Feb 29th 2012, 5:45 PM

    “And I believe the majority of people don’t want ever again to have a government that can spend the way past governments did spend,”

    We have one now, Mr Shatter, despite your party’s pre-election promises re pay caps and its objections to paying our money to unsecured bondholders…..both went by the wayside as soon as your party got elected, so you can tell Enda to forget about any future votes from me and that you can run the referendum as often as you like…..you’ll get the same answer because you don’t have our best interests at heart.

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    Mute Paul Carr
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:35 PM

    If we vote No, we won’t be able to get a second bailout next year from the European Stability Fund when it comes on line in the Summer of 2013 if we need a second bailout. We may need a second bailout given the huge amount money being spent on paying the bondholders from the pre-existing bailout package. Vote Yes.

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    Mute mart_n
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:52 PM

    There would still be alternative avenues in which Ireland could follow to secure additional bail out funds should they be needed. Not everything needs to; or does, come from the ECB/ESFS.

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    Mute john g mcgrath
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:52 PM

    According to our dear leaders we won’t need a second bail so the question does not arise they can’t have it both ways

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    Mute Paul Carr
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    Feb 28th 2012, 7:57 PM

    I’m pretty sure the IMF won’t give us anything if we don’t sign up to the European Stability Fund.

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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:03 PM

    paul,
    u make it sound like the IMF are gifting us the money.
    newsflash, we get to pay it ALL back plus interest!

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:16 PM

    If we vote no and need more money from the EU ESF we will get it unless the EU want’s to see us default and exit the Euro. If you don’t believe me just look at the money we in the euro zone are flinging at Greece. No one in the EU believes that they will get that money back ever.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:20 PM

    Paul Our democracy is more important than our fears, slaves are made by such methods.

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Feb 28th 2012, 8:22 PM

    And the downside Paul, will be…… ?? That you can say for sure now..

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    Mute Réada Quinn
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    Feb 29th 2012, 4:22 AM

    Love how you’re thinking Martin Byrne. Love it.

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    Mute Paul Carr
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    Feb 29th 2012, 3:12 AM

    Perhaps, I “liked” their page so as to follow any updates by IBEC on facebook. Then Facebook automatically filled up the “Interests and Activities” section of my facebook profile with random selection of pages that I had liked. I didn’t deliberately add IBEC to that section.

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