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THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION has proposed €2 trillion budget focused on tackling overseas competition and Russian aggression at Europe’s borders – at the risk of a new showdown with farmers.
Presenting the €2 trillion budget blueprint for 2028-2034 to reporters in Brussels, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen said it “will be the most ambitious ever proposed”.
The plans seek to bolster Europe’s security and ramp up its competitiveness, while paying off debts from a massive Covid-era loan as of 2028 – against a backdrop of soaring trade tensions with the bloc’s biggest commercial partner, the United States.
The European Commission put €451 billion on the table under a broad “competitiveness” tag that encompasses defence and space.
The budget plan earmarks up to €86 billion for the reconstruction of war-torn Ukraine – as well as substantial new “flexibility” funds kept available in event of crises.
But Brussels came under heavy criticism by EU lawmakers who accused it of not leaving sufficient funds for priorities including climate adaptation and the agriculture subsidies that currently make up the biggest share of the EU’s budget.
Budget commissioner Piotr Serafin said under the commission’s plans, €300 billion would remain ring-fenced to support farmers.
However, this is a 22% reduction when compared to the €387 billion of support payments under the current seven-year budget.
The European Commission says the difference reflects an overhaul of the massive subsidies known as the common agricultural policy (CAP) - with some funding moved to other budget columns.
But the future of the CAP is headed for a fight, with farmers warning against cuts to their slice of the EU pie – and marching today in Brussels to show their resolve.
Hundreds of European farmers joined a protest outside the commission building in Brussels organised by a pan-European agriculture lobby group, Copa-Cogeca.
The group described it as a “Black Wednesday” for farmers, accusing Brussels of having “effectively decided to dismantle the ‘common’ nature of the CAP through concealed budget cuts”.
The warning raised the spectre of another confrontation after last year’s protests across Europe by farmers upset at cheap imports, low margins and the burden of environmental rules.
Speaking from Brussels, Irish Farmers’ Association president Francie Gorman described the proposals as a “hammer blow” for the sector.
“The only definitive figure for farming supports is 20% lower than the current budget,” said Gorman.
He said the Commission is “more interested in finding ways to cut payments to individual farmers rather than support them”.
Gorman also warned that cutting CAP funding will “reduce food production and lead to food price inflation”.
He called on the Irish government to secure the “maximum funding for Irish farmers to encourage the next generation to consider farming as a career”.
Agriculture Minister Martin Heydon described the proposals as “complex” and remarked that the “major changes” will be studied in detail to “better understand the impact on Ireland”.
Detailed legislative proposals are expected to be published tomorrow.
He added that these proposals will form a “key focus” when Ireland assumed the EU presidency next year.
Minister Heydon will host the first meeting of Ireland’s CAP Consultative Committee tomorrow on the proposals.
Heydon said this Committee will play a “crucial role in ensuring that the CAP reform process is transparent, inclusive, and responsive to the needs of various stakeholders within the agricultural and rural community.”
Meanwhile, Minister for Rural and Community Development Dara Calleary remarked that CAP “critically supports the economic, social and environmental performance of rural Ireland”.
He added that its development post-2027 is a “matter of significant importance for my department” and that he will engage closely with colleagues both in Ireland and the European Parliament to “ensure rural Ireland is kept front and centre in all negotiations”.
Elsewhere, MEP Maria Walsh said the proposed changes would “harm our farmers and the development of rural Ireland”.
“The CAP is a lifeline to farmers across Ireland and the EU, yet this fact has been ignored by Commissioner for Budget Piotr Serafin,” said Walsh.
She added that the “fight is far from over” and that the “real battle will play out within the Parliament’s Agriculture Committee and the EU Council over the coming months.”
“Crucially, the final negotiations will take place during the Irish Presidency of the EU Council in the second half of 2026 meaning that Irish Ministers and MEPs will play a leading role in defining the final structure of the CAP,” said Walsh.
The announcement sets the stage for two years of fraught negotiations between the European Parliament and 27 member states.
Already stretched thin, some states are unwilling to contribute more to the common pot.
Unlike in the previous budget, the EU has debts due from the Covid pandemic, when states teamed up to borrow €800 billion to support the bloc’s economy. These are estimated to cost €25-30 billion a year from 2028.
The previous 2021-2027 budget was worth around €1.2 trillion and made up from national contributions and money collected by the EU such as customs duties.
National contributions will grow slightly, from 1.13% of member states’ gross national income to 1.15%, plus 0.11% devoted to repaying the Covid loan.
The commission will also seek to raise about €58 billion a year collecting money directly through five instruments, including its carbon border tax and a levy on electronic waste.
-With additional reporting from © AFP 2025
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Cowards..they are elected to govern and run away from hard issues.
I think this is an issue for the next government and should be part of the next election campaign. I don’t really blame them for not wanting to deal with it in the 18 months or so they have left. It takes up a lot of time and they have already spent considerable time on it. Then there’s the threat and abuse they receive from elements of the pro life campaign. I hope some parties commit to a refendum during the next election campaign.
I think reg the liberal urbanies on this site live in a bit of a bubble and grossly underestimate the sheer vitriol and power of some of these reactionary conservatives.
Despite that, I still think they should stand up to them, putting the 8th amendment in was the biggest mistake an Irish government has ever made besides maybe the blanket bank bailout.
There is clearly a loophole in the law that allows someone on the board to deliberately stall until it’s too late to do a termination. They have several options to deal with this issue:
-Have an ordinary referendum on an abortion bill liberalizing up to 12 weeks
-Have a constitutional referendum alongside that removing the 8th amendment
-Pass amending legislation eliminating the loophole and requiring the boards to make a timely decision.
IMO they should have had the balls to do the first part in the first place.
They were elected to legislate for the X case, they have a mandate to do that.
They could pass the amending legislation in a single day, it would only take very simple wording, take the Oireachtas back for emergency session, guillotine it through and ask the President to immediately sign it…problem solved.
Agreed, Reg. Let this be an election issue and we’ll see how important it truly is to the Irish people. Fine Gael will wilt under the pressure to adopt an actual policy but it might be to Labour’s advantage to pledge a referendum if they return to government.
FG and FF won’t discuss this in the campaign fergal mark my words, they won’t touch the issue with a barge poll they will dodge dodge dodge, and we know from their pledges on water and third level fees that a Labour promise is not worth the toilet tissue in your bathroom.
Very simple… legalise abortion and then those opposed to it need never avail of the service……. this country is screwed…
You know if one of the main stream parties committed to a referendum for the removal of the 8th ammendemnt they may actually improve their appeal to many voters. Ireland is changing.
we have 6 referenda next year. they could easily add it. no excusses.
If they are afraid of that there is always the option of an Ordinary referendum, a referendum can be on any bill.
Reg that’s what the antiabortion people don’t realize, this is a totally different country to the one that voted the 8th amendment into place, it was put in place in an era where you could be arrested for being gay and it took weeks to get a telephone. There is nothing that says it has to be this status quo or an open season abortion without limits, we can set a 12 week limit for non life threatening emergencies, we can ban terminations based on things like gender there are loads of rules that could be written in.
This is like same sex marriage, it was like divorce, it was like everything else, it’s going to come in eventually …that’s just a reality, that’s the way the trends are going, so the only question is how long we let political cowardice put womens lives in danger until it does.
Same sex marriage and abortion are very different things. Same sex marriage will pass without a problem, I wouldn’t say the same for an abortion referendum.
Two questions I’ll be putting to the politicians on the doorstep next year: 1) how are you going to get people back to work and not just reduce the unemployment rate through emigration and jobs bridge and 2) are you going to legislate for abortion. I can’t imagine there being any candidates who will end up getting my vote to be honest.
Their elected to provide legislation they should legislate or otherwise resign their seats if unwilling to do so.
The difference is were having a referendum on SSM despite there being absolutely no need for it and nothing in the constitution that provides a problem for it, it will certainly not pass easily, I can sense a Nice i about the complacency around that issue …but meanwhile were avoiding something that IS in the constitution DOES need another referendum and is giving us real honest to God problems, if were gonna have a referendum on one we should remove the other….in fact we should make the SSM one an omnibus amendment and remove all the religiously inspired garbage from the document from blasphemy to abortion
We don’t elect dictators. We live in a democracy.
Yes and the vast majority of the country is in favor of abortion in circumstances of fatal abnormality, rape, incest and the life of the mother. It’s 5050 on the rest. We have barely legislated for the former let alone the latter.
You make an interesting point with democracy, because it is a small reactionary minority holding the lives of the women of this country hostage because they are intimidating lawmakers.
This minority think because they had the majority in 1983 they have the majority now, but what they fail to see is we live in a totally different world now to then.
Most of the people reading and posting on this board, including myself, were not even alive when this amendment was passed, hell I was a child when the X case happened. Nobody thinks it’s ok to use it as a form of contraception or for gender selection etc but the minority are using shock cases like that, shock imagry, and shock of procedures like DNX to intimidate undecideds into supporting them cos they don’t have logic on their side.
I’d have to question whether you have run somebody’s campaign like you said. Seems unlikely given your shouty and ranty nature. Politics being the art of the possible and all that.
I’ll bet me bottom dollar that Labour are behind this latest scam…God help that poor child if he ever finds out about this… Abortion is the killing of young babies and we should be ashamed
Ryan you’re not wrong. Some TDs were overwhelmed with correspondence, calls and general lobbying overload. Many were abused verbally and even threatened. Fine Gael in particular were subjected to this kind of pressure because of the conservatism of many of their supporters and of the pre election pledge not to legislate for X.
Then there were the rebels in their own party, who lets not forget, bullied James Reilly into backing down in 2012 when he outlined plans to legislate. This against a background of the Church claiming they would ‘lobby’ the Government (with what funds?).
Then there are the powerful interest groups who potentially create a shadowy 5th column. Fine Gael being the closest we have to Christian Democrats, some with a strong neo liberal ideology (Brutons for example) who might have friends in high/low places especially if some of those places are in the USA. Or a certain address in Merrion Square.
And then, you have the genuinel deeply held convictions. The most enthusiastic correspondent for Article 8 in 1983 was one Enda Kenny TD .
It doesn’t surprise me that they found get out clauses and loopholes. I think your own proposals look extremely sensible. But good sense is abandoned when you have all those good friends to please.
There’s no reason why a plebicite on repealling the 8th amendment can’t be done on the same day as the referendum for equal marriage, or any of the other referenda proposed for next year.
It really is nothing more than cowardice.
@Brian ta da some one with cop on!!! People against it can simply not avail of it. I don’t really drink a whole lot, I have nothing against those who do, am aware of the problems it can cause but people have first and foremost free will and should be allowed to exercise that. Don’t simply deny people something. If something will ultimately move the country forward and help a lot of people then let it happen and if you don’t agree then simply do not avail of it.
I hope it never becomes legal in Ireland ..Too many loopers would be hanging out outside the clinics ! Give out free air travel vouchers instead and throw in a £50 note for a stay in a B&B ..
They’ll lie to you any. Francis Fitzgerald supported TFMR and turned her back once she became minister for justice!
No let finances be the only election issue, everything else is a secondary issue, when we have cash we can look at all issues when we have no cash it should be the only issue
@Reg who do u consider the main stream parties…..?
@ Thierry Rat people never vote in elections on social issues …..only a tiny minority
Since last election Labour have brought in the ” Health in Pregnancy Bill “, secured a same sex referendum and promoted more non denominational schools .
What reward did they get in the Local & European elections ?
How many MEPS have Labour ? zero
How many council seats did they lose ? 79
Where are Eamon Gilmore, Ruairi Quinn and Pat Rabitte ????
There is only one reason why this issue will not be revisited in the life of this government: moral cowardice.
Why would ya want to legalise the killing of Babies
Bernie I don’t agree with you. I am not pro abortion or anti abortion, but abortion is a law to kill a living thing. I would much rather this government got on with the cuts in taxes and job growth for our youth. This is what the country needs now looking at the zero growth rate in Europe.
The next time abortion is on an election poster people can decide but now the country need to improve my personal economic situation along with the bulk of the people living in this country who have carried the biggest burden.
If the person who arrived her went to the Doctor the day she arrived she would have had her abortion. But at 16 weeks she was told no to late. Why should I or others give our current government a reason or distraction to ignore our poverty.
The (traumatised) girl with little English and no understanding of her rights in a foreign country, was told during her standard medical as an asylum seeker that she was pregnant. She then had a scan to determine gestation and was told she was 8 wks and four days pregnant, she immediately stated she wanted an abortion and was then passed from pillar to post. No doubt in her head she thought sense would prevail and speed would be seen as an important factor when dealing with her case. She was wrong. Even if she had presented, suicidal at 16 wks she wld have received the same treatment, slow bureaucracy and delays. For a woman who was raped, suicidal, pregnant, in a foreign country and with limited language and little understanding of the law, you could not get more vulnerable and yet instead of treating her with compassion and helping her through the system, every obstacle was left for her to try to overcome herself.
There already doing all cutting they can is part of reason irish rail staff are taking industrial action we gone from incompent ff to cut all goverment spending fg there has to be in between where we public dont suffer all this austerity
I don’t like the idea of abortion but i dislike the idea of a government and a legal system forcing a woman to have a baby against her will even more. Providing safe and sane legislation for abortion is not some new social issue that had just cropped up. … The blueprint Is there … All over the world. … If women need to have an abortion the should be allowed to do so. …. If women don’t want an abortion the choice is there too
Completely agree Marc. If you don’t want to do it then don’t. If its right for you for whatever reason then its the right move for you. Stopping others and forcing someone who has already been through a trauma to under go further trauma is abusive and barbaric. Not everyone is against abortion and not everyone’s belief’s on the issue are the same. There should be options and supports available instead of just condemnations.
you think a woman has the right to murder her child
@james You think its ok for a government to force feed a teenage rape victim and force an operation on her to deliver a child that is not going to have good quality of life due to how early it was born is ok??
Our nearest neighbours and most culturally aligned allow 200,000 annual abortions. Is that right?
What would be so bad about letting the woman choose?
James. Crawl back to Salem.
Marc, couldn’t have put it better myself.
People in Ireland dont want abortion industry here , they care about women and babies and want to protect them both.
the large public display of support at every pro life rally is a testament to this.
Political Parties that support Abortion like Labour and People Before Profit are now on the margins of society which is further proof that people in Ireland care about the unborn and also care about women too much to allow the Money Men from the Abortion Trade to take over their Country
Then they should try to care about the kids already born. Bunch of hypocrites
It was stressful for Paul Keogh? I would advise him to consider how stressful it might be for a woman in need of an abortion, for whatever reason. That might actually be described as stress, Paul.
Poor lamb didn’t get into this to have to tackle difficult issues, god love him
Poor Paul Kehoe. Hopefully he’ll never be forcefed and cut open because of his stress.
I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that this hasn’t been dealt with already it’s nearly 2015 ffs!……..I sat in a classroom during a religion class in secondary school in 2000 where we talked about the x case, the teacher had the class put forward it’s views on the case hinting that abortion was wrong, myself and one other person argued that abortion was the individuals choice, after class as our peers left the classroom we were called to the top of the room and given a penalty sheet (a punishment of writing a list of words over and over again) when we asked why we were told we had a very sick view on the world which needed to be corrected, this was in 2000 in a city school run by the presentation sisters ………..we might like to think we’ve moved on a bit but scratch the surface and underneath we are still a country heavily influenced by the RCC, the 8th needs to be scrapped if we are to have any chance of moving forward.
Thats crazy rachel. The RCC account for too much of the electorate, this scares the politicians from appropriate action. How long can they keep passing this to the next government? Its a joke!
Jaysus that’s a bit nuts. Very dependent on the school you attend though.
Thankfully even most catholic schools are not like that, parents seem to make a lot of hay about the ”ethos ” of the school but the practical impact of that ethos is usually zero.
My school had a supposed catholic ethos and we had 5050 gay str8 sex ed and all the religion classes we had were confined to discussions on morality quandarys and were probably more of a philosophy class than anything else
Aye lads it was a bit nuts, the teacher was a married woman with kids of her own as well so you’d think there’d be a bit more compassion, there was a total of two nuns actually teaching, the rest were a good mix of male/female, married/single, most were very conservative the most liberal among them a science teacher and belive it or not a nun, she was the most level headed person I ever met from the CC, she has since passed on but I think of her often, she was one of those people who left a positive mark on others. In regard schools no longer being like that I’m afraid I have to beg to differ, I’ve been told similar stories by people from different parts of the country who went through the education system after me. The RCC indoctrination is still there lads, granted it’s weakening as the years go by but it’s simply taking too long! I have daughters and the thought of them growing up in a country where one of their reproductive organs if they choose (or are forced) to use it automatically makes them second class citizens scares me! Heck it scares me now for myself, should I choose to have another child and it is incompatible with life or am raped or in any other situation where I don’t want to continue with a pregnancy, I don’t want to have to go to another country I want to be able to have those who love and support me around me not complete strangers, it’s not right and something HAS to be done!
Some of them are probably still hungover from the last vote they had on the issue…
A very good point Clodagh.
That was a shameful night, and really reminded me of the end of Animal Farm.
Proof if it were needed that laws should be introduced to randomly breath test TD’s entering the Dail Chambers with suspensions for those breaking them. I can’t imagine their electorate would be too forgiving of their TD loosing their voice because they decided to get scutted.
Your job is to govern, that’s what you get the perks, the place in history and all the power for. If you are too much of a coward that you don’t want to face one of the key policy problems in your countries social policy, you do not deserve to be in the cabinet, or even a TD or councilor. There are plenty of us who are not total cowards, on both sides of the issue, who are more than willing to take your place. Resign, nobody on any side of the debate wants gutless wimps in power too afraid of unpopularity to have an opinion.
There is nothing cowardly about not doing what you in particular want.
There is no great demand for an abortion referendum which is the only thing which can be done under the current constitution. There is a minority which I would be part of which would like to see a referendum but according to opinion polls the bill was pretty damn popular.
Anyway the general election is a year and bit away. It seems like a good campaign issue. Parties can lay out whether they would support a referendum and people can vote accordingly. It would give a fair idea of where we stand as a country.
Firstly, David it’s not about what I want the polls and focus groups are quite clear on this.
Second, they let TWENTY YEARS go by between the X case , various referendums and legislating for them, that was pure and total cowardace, they kept kicking it to referendum because they didnt want an opponent to be able to hang their dail vote on the issue around their necks. I’ve ran their campaigns David I know how terrified they are of this issue so don’t tell me it’s not about cowardace, they are quite willing to let women die in hospitals or suffer untold trauma rather than have the balls to legislate.
Some of them won’t even state their position on the issue clearly one way or the other, that’s yet another shade of cowardice
Third, they don’t need to have a referendum the constitution just says equal regard to the life of the mother there are plenty of ways to legislate within that..
Fourth, they don’t want it as a campaign issue, that’s the entire point of them having referendums on it, if this comes up in the campaign they will just dodge it as they did in 2011, they won’t talk about it.
You seem rather confused an emotional.
There is no “they”, it was many different government and different ministers which ignored the X case and that was because the public didn’t care at all. They have legislated for the X case now which should protect the lives of women. It may not though.
There doesn’t seem to be any great demand for an abortion referendum. You can imagine their is if you want but it doesn’t seem to be the case. Most Irish people seem to support limited abortion rights but it’s not clear how far they want those rights to extend.
When peoples lives are being taken because of the criminal incompetence of our political leaders you’re damn right I’m emotional.
The public has been very clear on the X case with their votes and their response in the polls, backwater ministers from rural areas didn’t want to vote to legislate it because in their area it was a no vote for liberalization of any kind and they wanted to keep their seat.
They put their own necks ahead of peoples lives.
Again, there is no need for a referendum, nobody said we have to have a referendum, we can do legislation and have it passed in a day to remove the clear loophole in this.
I just don’t really buy the cowardice accusation you throw about so much. Just because they disagree with you doesn’t make them cowards. You should try to be more respectful of those who you disagree with. No point in becoming the US.
Let me explain it to you like you are two years old then.
1. A court ruled in the X case, and it took them 20 years to pass the law for it.
2. This mean that even though the courts said it was legal in some circumstances, the lack of legislation made it de-facto illegal in all circumstances to have one
3. The reason they didn’t legislate on this was because they wanted to not make it an election issue, so they could say ”thats a separate referendum issue” because the crazies that are antiabortion in all circumstances are extremely vitriolic and in some constituencies in the country these nutcases form a big enough number to form a threat to your re-election, so they instead dodged the issue year after year and kept doing it until a woman died horribly in one of our hospitals and we became an international laughing stock described with the cringe worthy tag ”the conservative catholic country” something that hasn’t been true for 20 years, this finally embarrassed the government into fulfilling their pledge to legislate for X, but they still left out things like fatal fetal abnormalities which 80% think you should be able to terminate for.
They didn’t, when the law was being passed, even the pro choice ones, have the guts to stand up to the anti abortion voters in many cases. They didn’t have the balls to say ”ok, I disagree, and I’m voting for it” instead you got ”well ye know like doens’t matter what I think like I have to vote that way cos of the whip now” where they tried to sit on the fence and act vague so their constituent could project onto them whatever opinion they read between the lines in their blubbering meandering explanation of their position.
They have this cowardice on a lot of social issues, FG had it on same sex marraige, why do you think they didn’t just pass a marriage bill? So they could say to the reactionary conservatives ”ahh but we didn’t let them get MARRIED…we straights still have that magic holy word for oursevels” but they could say to the gays ”ah sure it’s nearly the same thing separate but equal!”
It’s the same tired old classic cure whoore meandering ‘what d’ye stand far yerself dere?’ trying to be all things to all people and avoid taking a position nonsense that has characterized Irish politics for years, we’ve very few national leaders who stand by their positions, and far too many cowards.
It’s not up to them to ‘disagree’ and that’s the end of the matter. It’s up to them to allow the people of Ireland to vote. Their disagreement is neither here nor there
“They have this cowardice on a lot of social issues, FG had it on same sex marraige, why do you think they didn’t just pass a marriage bill? So they could say to the reactionary conservatives ”ahh but we didn’t let them get MARRIED…we straights still have that magic holy word for oursevels” but they could say to the gays ”ah sure it’s nearly the same thing separate but equal!””
How is that cowardice? FG didn’t have party agreement on same sex marriage. Just because they disagree with you doesn’t make it cowardice.
They gave nearly the same rights under a diff name, they used a diff name so they could placate the reactionaries into keeping calm, the same reason they did a half assed compromise on abortion with the PHLP bill.
Fear, it all comes back to fear, fear of a reactionary minority, thats where the cowardice comes from.
You had grown ass adults, grown men, who were in favor of the bill fudging their public statements and sneaking in and out of their offices so they’d not be cornered and asked questions by the press, that’s a pathetic way for the countries national leaders to behave.
It absolutely is cowardice. The majority of government ministers will not express their stance on a political issue. The only reason for this is a) fear of losing votes and b) fear if being criticised.
What other reason would there be for a politician not making their stance known on a political issue?
If your party doesn’t agree on the issue of abortion and there is no public demand for a referendum then you don’t hold a referendum. Nobody is holding their feet to the fire over this, the public isn’t clamoring for a referendum. I mean there hasn’t been a peep in the papers or on the radio until this case.
If it was an issue it would be an issue, but it’s not.
There IS public demand where are you getting this idea there is no demand, the numbers supporting it in the case of life and health and fatal abnormality are in the 70s and 80s, besides which we don’t even really need a referendum to legislate for that!
Even if they could just do emergency legislation to plug the very clear loophole that’s emerged from this case, where someone on the board can drag the proceess out and stall until it’s too late to terminate…even if they just fixed that, they could do that by midnight tonight quite easily, in fact from what I remember the previous bill allows the health minister to issue SI’s to regulate this issue so he could have this fixed in mere minutes.
Stroke of the pen law of the land, done…over…no weeks of debate and crying…just get it done
Or Ryan, you could argue, that they didn’t legislate because they knew it would be pretty much impossible. How do you legislate for suicide? I don’t agree that we don’t need a referendum. We need to repeal Article 8. The law is just unworkable under it.
David, are you sure there’s no public demand for a referendum? Because that’s not the impression I’m getting just about everywhere. There’s certainly no political demand for reasons that have already been well explained. ‘There hasn’t been a peep from the papers’? What papers do you read? You’re on social media do you look at it with a hand over one eye?
There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of any public demand. I think the opinion polls show a small majority in favour of change but there hasn’t been any talk of it. I read the Irish times and listen to Newstalk and RTE and there hasn’t been a peep until now since the bill passed.
There hasn’t been politicians talking about it because they haven’t been hearing it from their constituents. If it was an issue it would be an issue, but it’s not.
No public demand? You and your friends don’t account for all the public, you know. Put it to the people. They’ll decide. I don’t know why you have such a problem with people having a say in the 21st century on something that no woman currently of child bearing age has been allowed to.
She’s sombodys elses problem … Dud she report the rape before he freeloaded here to Ireland
Nice job making it personal there. I’d be a supporter of an referendum.
Just there is no evidence of public demand. No protest marches, not on the radio, not in the newspapers, no politicians talking about it. Until this case of course.
So I’m surmising there isn’t much public demand for it.
Linda O’Neill,
“She’s sombodys elses problem … Dud she report the rape before he freeloaded here to Ireland”
Just disgusting.
A teenager pregnant as a result of rape should be sent a back to the war torn country in which she was raped?
How you can consider yourself “pro-life” is beyond the bounds of reason.
You show your true colours, it must be awful inside your head.
Such vile thoughts about a vulnerable, violated girl.
Wow Linda, that really is a new low. Eff the mother AND the child…..well done Linda, you have won most disgusting comment of the day.
The depressing thing is that after saying that we as a nation would never allow the horrors of the laundries to be repeated.To never allow vunerable young women to be considered as nothing more than brood mares.
How we have evolved. Now we are not even making an attempt to hide it. A woman who has proven that she would rather die than go through with her pregnancy has been physicaly cut open to apease the personal beliefs of people that she does not even share.Forcably rehydrated while the legal and medical system dragged their heels so as not to have to deal with an ‘awkard situation’.
All of this has been done to a rape survivor in Ireland in the 21st century.
Have learned absolutly nothing from the past crimes commited ?
Our politicans are again trying to brush these woman under the rug.
Denying them basic human rights for the sake of political convenience.
Why as a nation do we seem to have such short memories ?
Why as a nation do we continue to be so cruel to these women ?
Why do some still try to claim the moral high ground when they could prevent this ?
Is Irish society really that sick ?
so you think they should have killed the baby? I feel sorry for her but that child had a right to be born. nobody on this forum seems to give a damn about the baby. when do we stop having a right to life? 12 weeks? 24? 39? at what stage does it become murder and what stage abortion?
Until the foetus is able to breath for itself and have normal bodily functions, which are independent from the Mother.
They should have provided the medical proceedure she both needed and requested at eight weeks.The medical intervention she was legally entitled to. That pregnancy should never have been allowed to progress to the stage that it did. They deliberatly allowed a non sentient group of cells become a viable life rather than terminating it before that could happen.They used a woman as an incubator against her will.A woman who was raped and suicidal because they would not make a decision on a difficult situation.An feotus at eight , twelve or 16 weeks is not a life. An abortion at that stage can be induced without surgical intervention and resembles a heavy period.
What they did has both physicaly and probably mentaly scared this woman for life.
Why do you think the waited three days after the cut of point for intervention ? I believe it was to satisfy their own morals despite the clear wishes of this woman.
Once again, Ireland is the laughing stock of the world.
The whip is the way our system works Jayo, they all knew that when they ran for election that you get a free vote on the parties policies at the conference but whatever the majority decides you vote for in the Dail, that’s the T’s and C’s and they all know that going in.
Otherwise you’d have ciaos, you’d have a nightmare like the United States where the President is elected on policies and then can’t get them passed, where he has to bribe every tin pot back water sentor with a local pork barrel project just to get his vote, imagine 166 Jackie Healey Raes that’s what we’d have without the whip system.
Parties can still give their people a free vote within the system sometimes, FF did on the bill. The anti abortion TDs need to accept that the bill was only legislating for something the people had passed in a referendum (20 years too late I might add, and after a woman died) and their government was elected on a mandate to legislate for X, they knew that and what the parties policy was when they took the parties money to fund their campaigns.
Waiting for the Educate Together to get involved in this … Liberals are gone mad and we need to restore good Christian values back into society
I’d measure my moral values against a supposed Christian any day.
Trollololololinda.
@Linda
Good Christian values? Don’t make me vomit.
Ireland is a secular state. We have rules and laws that everyone must abide by. Some of those rules happen to reflect the teachings of the Catholic church. That’s as far as any religious influence should reach.
Ireland is NOT a Christian country. Many of its citizens identify as Christian but that’s as far as it goes, despite the impression to the contrary.
Keep your religion to yourself. It’s not your place to impose your morals or principles on anyone else.
Linda, you consistently mention educate together as though it is an insult. Do you think that non-denominational schools are the root of all evil and that Catholic schools (where traditionally children have been beaten, molested and brainwashed) are better?
awww poor FG , the bead rattlers party
They’ll not be going near this one any time soon!
Not least because opposition parties would make mischief with it, and try to drag them from the trough: in order that they themselves may get their snouts in.
Take women’s physical and mental health out of the hands of knackered old men
What about the knackered old women let be inclusive!
Pro choice is obviously common sense. This issue is ruled by religion. If the government pass any legislation allowing abortion they will lose thousands of votes from small minded catholics who think they should represent every women’s choice
Anyone who thinks abortion is common sense hasn’t thought about it very much.
There are reasonable doubts people can have about late-term abortions, sex selective abortions, abortions of children with disabilities. There are difficult questions.
They’re using cases like that to fudge the issue.
It’s just like bringing up polygamy in the marriage debate, throwing a wrench into the works to make undecideds hesitate. I’ll grant you full on abortion on demand is not a ‘common sense’ thing, it’s a matter of opinion, I can see where two smart people looking at the same issue could come to diff conclusions even though I’m clearly on one side rather than the other.
But that’ wasn’t what all the fuss was about with this, this bill they opposed was for emergency situations where the womans life was in danger, any rational person should want to leave it up to the doctors and their patents in a situation like that. It’s far too complicated for legislators to meddle in they can’t possibly legislate for every permutation of circumstance.
If the fetus is not going to come to term anyway it surely is common sense to think that letting the mother die for the sake of possibly saving a pregnancy that won’t make it anyway is lunacy
Sure except what he wrote was abortion is common sense, when it’s not.
I’d be fully supportive of legal abortion in Ireland and I don’t know why you seem to think otherwise. But you seem to get shirty when I point out that there is no public clamour for a referendum and that it would be a closer run thing than you think.
Because David I’ve helped run the polls and the focus groups that tell me there is a demand, an overwhelming demand, not for abortion on demand but for certain key grounds that bill does not provide for like fatal abnormality.
The demand is there
Except you have presented no evidence for this…
Going by post opinion polls there is a majority in favour of some limited changes. But it hasn’t been an issue in the political sphere at all for the last 8 months or whatever since the bill.
remember this when your on the door step, and they say We make tough decisions. its business to TDs. not public service. Theyre in it for the money, make no mistake.
That’s the thing though Kev…they are paid very very very well why? What’s the reason we pay them so well? Because the job involves regularly making very hard decisions under stress, sometimes in a full blown crises atmosphere.
Imagine if in the middle of the recession a government minister said they’d no opinion on banking regulation, or didn’t want to talk about it, that they passed a bill a few years ago and there was nothing more to discuss, even though it was clear in 2009 the banking regulation bill had been a failure, as it’s clear this abortion bill is.
We pay them so well and give them the pensions, disappointment money, clocking in money all that because they have to make those tough decisions so they can’t suddenly turn around and say they don’t want to face an issue…I mean how bloody childish is tha. It’s not the first time though is it, they never make great decisions under stress having the bank bailout decision at 3am over a phone conference instead of suspending the markets, closing the banks, and talking through options in a real cabinet meeting in a calm and rational way was crazy…I remember an anecdote from the 80s John Bruton came to see Dick Spring in hospital and told him they had to make cuts that they’d done enough tax hikes and the deficit was still exploding he replied ”get that man away from me , he’s upsetting me”….I mean have we f)))king children in charge or what? NO MAMMY NO MAKE THE BAD SITUATION GO AWAY I DON’T WANT TO FACE IT WA WA WA…ok give us back your 160k then and resign.
“Fear in their eyes”
Aw bless.
You want fear? Raped, positive pregnancy test, suicidal.
That’s fear.
http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/repealthe8th/
Please sign this and show the cowards that their political careers are not important to you, but the health – and indeed the lives – of women in Ireland IS.
Done, thanks for the link
Will someone PLEASE think of the politicians??!
We’re governed by a bunch of spineless jellyfish, too weak to lead the country and are obviously only in the job for the guaranteed pensions at the end of their stint. And the sad part is we put them there, thinking they were going to be better than the previous shower.
Why is not more done to track down the lunatics sending death threats! How can you be ‘pro life’ and support an organization that threatens life?? Their hypocrisy is astonishing!
The anti-choicers will be back with their robo-calls, balloons, jumbotrons and lies about attendance with another Rally 4 Hate once the dollars convert to euros.
And yet they were the first to complain about outside interference when the international media rightfully called this situation barbaric. I reckon its time to get Revenue and the charities comisson to have a wee look into their finances.
Ugh it doesn’t matter who is in power in this country. They have different party names but they are all ultimately the same.
I was told once about this gentleman who was interested in politics. He was moving forward and a real campaigner for change locally. He had the opportunity to go further but felt that at a higher level everything became too corrupt. He felt that his voice was not to be heard and if you oppossed other’s views then that was your tough luck and so he removed himself from the situation as he was uncomfortable with he and instead focuses on helping his community as best he can.
Our politicians do little to earn their spot. The leaders of a country should be intellectual and have credentials. They should not be biased to any one religion, ethnic group or whatever else have you. They should be mediators, able to listen to all sides and make concise sensible decisions that benefit the majority in the long run.
All our politicians care about is lining their pockets and being pets to the EU. If politicians were clued in and gave a rat’s ass they would check up on sites like this and read the comments, they would open their ears to the public instead of living large and downing pints.
You’ll never please all the people all the time obviously but jaysus they should at least listen.
They are all the same, empty promises to get the pay cheque and then screw us over.
Between 1980 and 2013, at least 158,252 women living in Ireland travelled to England and Wales to access safe abortion services, 3,679 in 2013! these figures represent ‘Irish women’ of all ages, fact! (www.ifpa.ie) Well woman in Ireland provides aftercare here once you come back, whether you agree on legalising abortion or not, is it a case of ‘not on our doorstep’ ?!?
Yup and it costs us taxpayers nothing. Long may it last.
The 8th was mooted before my daughter was born, my daughter had a baby daughter three weeks ago, what age will my granddaughter be when they do the right thing. Cowards, leaving women to pay the price.
So out of curiosity I had a look at youth defence’s Facebook page and saw a picture of pro-choice advocates from last year and I kid you not youth defence are claiming, using said picture, the people who support choice are complaining that the baby isn’t dead. WTF?!
I am afraid pro choice advocates left themselves wide open for that one as the “perception” has been created that they do not care about the baby delivered at 25 weeks in the hospital incubator.
when i say perception i mean there seems to be no concern shown for the child now born and presumably all agree a baby, with rights… If it survives who will vindicate those rights ?. Can a person who is pro-choice not have concern for this child as well as its unfortunate mother or does it not suit the argument so do not speak about him or her. I just do not know, there are no winners in this
@Caoimhin
That “perception” has been created wholly by those who are anti-choice. They seem intent on ignoring the fact that most of those who are pro choice are appalled that the woman was not given an abortion when she first presented at 8 weeks pregnancy. Instead they make up crazy stories about how those who are pro choice are baying for blood and are really disappointed that the baby survived.
They also conveniently overlook the poor woman involved, a woman without whom the baby would never have existed in the first place.
So any “perception” that those who are pro choice want the baby dead has been created SOLELY by extremist anti-choice people.
@Caoimhin
And I will add for the sake of clarity that now that the baby reached a point of gestation of 25 weeks and was born, any right-minded person is happy that the baby survived. (Although what medical or health complications he/she will suffer as a result of being so premature remain to be seen. ) It’s just that most people on the pro-choice side would rather that the woman hadn’t been forced against her will to remain pregnant in the first place.
sorry i cannot agree with that i am not an exteremist anti choicer but I do observe that none of the pro choice people here even mentioned the baby bar one i think…have alook through the posts yourself and see
i applaud you Florence for what you said about the baby…my point is that Pro choicers completely allowed the perception of no interest in the baby and its future life by their silence in regard to this child….. and yes I feel deeply sorry for that poor woman
If they don’t have the balls to decide themselves then simply put it to a referendum. The people will make the choice.
I love the naive comments saying legalise abortion and let those that want abortion can have and those that don’t can abstain plus the anti religion crowd that focus on Only religion. This is a serious issue that incorporates the views of many sectors Religious, those who think abortion is taking a life, those who think life begins after birth, womens rights and fathers rights etc! All must be respected! We are also asking a profession that have spent their time in Ireland ensuring a foetus/child survives to now carry out an abortion which must be difficult. Comparing this to a referendum on gay marriage is crazy. This is life and death. This case has really really tested our new legislation because of the language difference the issue of not being able to travel etc! Its not a simple black and white case so a bit of respect For all sides is required!
No, not all opinions ‘must be respected’ at all. Such a bizarre thing to think.
Some opinions are absolutely worthless. Especially when they’re about my womb, and they’re coming from anyone except me and my doctor.
Is that really a fair way to view it? By all means the radical right is full of nutters but I’m not sure you are being fair. Sex selective abortions isn’t something which can be debated? Very late term abortions? Isn’t safe, legal and rare a reasonable goal?
Be fair. The radical left as an equal number of absolute nutters!
It won’t be an election issue.
There is a huge silent and sometimes not so silent section of the population of this country who are not in about of abortion.
Very few politicians can afford to alienate them.
Not in favour. Auto correct error.
Most polls suggest otherwise, Alan.
For all you against abortion in this case how would you feel if this was your sister or your daughter?
Oh it would be different then. An exception would be made. Sure she’s a good girl and she’s off to college soon…
Dee have a look at the Sunday Times poll on Irish people’s attitudes to social issues in last Sunday’s paper. Almost unanimous acceptance of things like gay marriage, sex outside marriage, children out of wedlock etc. Abortion was split almost 50/50.
If there was votes in it it would be dealt with. The only votes in this issue are votes that will be lost. So it’s not going to be touched by any party. Even the Labour party, who in fairness to them have made no secret of their stance, don’t want one in the lifetime of this government because they’ve lost enough voters already!!
Don’t hold your breath.
Get away from here with your facts.
Irish people have a fairly nuanced position on abortion and there isn’t a huge demand for any change at the moment. If things do change it’s likely to be an limited expansion of abortion rights. Not saying I agree with that but that’s the way it seems.
@David
There is MASSIVE demand for a change on the legislation. Your impression of the situation does not mean that’s the reality.
By all means show me some evidence. I would love to see it happen.
Yes let’s become a nation of baby murderers… If everyone is in favour of it that makes it morally right
Nobody is condoning walking into an post-natal department and stabbing babies.
Or are you misinterpreting the word baby and murder. A foetus becomes a baby once born, not before hand. Murder is committed against a human being, born, alive and functioning separately from it’s mother.
Now if you want to redefine some of the English language to suit your embellishment, that’s fine, but it’s rather sad that you cannot use correct definitions to convey your opinion. You have to result to hyperbole.
Replace baby murderers with foetus aborters, and bear in mind that almost % of the population are male and cannot abort their own pregnancy, so we cannot be an entire nation of aborters.
So, well, your entire comment is flawed…..ouch
Well that’s defamatory. I have nevet murdered a person, nor do I intend to. SCREENSHOT! Get your suit ready
By the way, spiders don’t count dip$hit
Thierre is the type of article I have spoken about. One who is quite happy to put the live of another on the line to satisfy his own beliefs safe in the knowlege that he will never be in such a position.Knowing full well that the person his beliefs endanger does not believe what he does. Despite all medical and scientific evidence his beliefs come first.Anybody who disagrees with his beliefs is a sinner or a murderer.That he tries to contradicts himself to support these when he feels the sand shift beneath them is a sign that they are so entrenched that no amount of rational debate will change them. A true zealot.
What spider?
Hmmmmm Thierry, your wild defamatory accusations have been removed. Care to apologise?
It was an attempt at sarcasm which is difficult to portray on a blog, apologies if offence was taken
Ailbhe. Go back a few posts.. They are still there
Back to her ‘home country’ with her. Irish legislation is not customised to facilitate individual whims.
And let her take her little b@strd with her while she’s at it, eh? All that money being spent to save some furrin, non-national, welfare scrounging brat that could be spent on Irish welfare scroungers, is that it?
Are your protected tweets as bigoted as your post?
@Myles
“Back to her ‘home country’ with her. Irish legislation is not customised to facilitate individual whims.”
J*sus. F***ing. Chr*st.
This poor woman was raped, forced out of her war-torn country and came to a strange land no doubt traumatised and scared.
She sought an abortion under the LAW that actually EXISTS in this country: either the right and freedom to travel to the UK for a termination or to obtain a termination under the existing legislation, the conditions of which she appeared to fit.
She was failed by the law that already exists. She didn’t have an “individual whim”.
SMH. I really cannot believe the mindset of some people. I really can’t.
Don’t worry Myles, that’s a distinct possibility and for the child she didn’t want, almost a certainty, as soon as he’s well enough to travel.
And you’re so right, Irish legislation is not customised to facilitate individual whims, we have clientelism for that. The problem is, Irish legislation is also not customised to adequately facilitate a lot of things. Imagine how much this latest debacle has cost the state? When a simple early abortion would have sufficed. Then we could have booted her back home without the Caesarian scar.
The picture of enda looks like he’s on job bridge, he’s a bit like a job bridge candidate… State funded and way out of his depth, and not guaranteed more work
@Dee …..typical of the ‘my opinion is the only one that counts’!! You need to open your mind and understand that its a life or two lives we’re talking about!! If we take the my body – my decision we could say the same for My elderly sick parent in pain, my right to help them die!! There are huge legal and moral issues involved that you might open your mind to. By the way i’m for and against abortion depending on the circumstance which again highlights the numerous situations that may come up that need to be legislated for! I know i couldn’t carry out an abortion and i could understand how doctors would find it difficult. But lets expect the government to get it right first time and please all
People never vote in elections on social issues …..only a tiny minority perhaps
Since last election Labour have brought in the
@ ” Health in Pregnancy Bill “,
@ secured a same sex referendum
@ promoted more non denominational schools .
What reward did they get in the Local & European elections ?
How many MEPS have Labour ? zero
How many council seats did they lose ? 79
Where are Eamon Gilmore, Ruairi Quinn and Pat Rabitte ????
An irish solution to an irish problem….. Ignore it!! Our politicians do not come standard with long term vision, just reactive policies to important issues. We know our problems, we just cant deal with them!
Fine Gael claims it is pro-life yet it introduced pro-abortion legislation.
Why?
To satisfy Labour cretins.
Because the people of Ireland voted to introduce it 20 years earlier after the X Case and unfortunatly a woman died on their watch due in part to failure to introduce legislation at the time.If they could have gotten away with doing nothing they would have.The legisation they introduced was so full of holes that it was only a matter of time before it was called into question. I for one hoped it would not take something like this case for that to happen. I hoped there would be a constitutional challange to it but unfortunatly it did not happen that way.So I guess it’s back to the drawing board.They only way to shore up the holes are more liberal abortion laws.Thats the long and the short of it.
“and unfortunatly a woman died on their watch due in part to failure to introduce legislation at the time.”
That unfortunate woman died due to sepsis… not our abortion laws.
Do you even read before commenting. I said ‘due in part’. If she had been allowed abort when she wanted it is very likely she would be here today.
The reality is most of our politicians are Pro Life PR agents.
That’s why they get elected!
have your say