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AN BORD PLEANALA has refused a planning application from SIPTU to redevelop the landmark Liberty Hall building in central Dublin.
The authority this morning said its board had unanimously decided to refuse permission for the redevelopment, saying the proposed new 23-storey building would be “unacceptably dominant in the city”.
The authority said the proposed new tower would be “visually intrusive in the streetscape and riverscape, and would seriously injure the visual amenities of the city and its skyline”.
It further added that the development could “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House, would intrude on the O’Connell Street and Grafton Street Architectural Conservation Areas”.
Dublin City Council had granted permission for the 100m-tall development in February, though it had included 19 conditions including a realignment of some of the upper levels of the building.
Irish Life Assurance plc, the life assurance arm of the State-owned Irish Life – and others had then appealed the decision to An Bord Pleanála.
The proposed new tower – which was to include a public observation deck and a four-storey heritage centre – would have replaced the existing 17-floor tower and the adjoining two-storey building, which currently stands 60 metres above the ground and was finished in 1965.
An Bord Pleanála said the site was of “national historic and social significance” given its location close to Custom House, which is considered to be “of primary importance in the state”.
It said policies laid out in the Dublin City Development Plan 2011-2017 meant the authority had an policy “to protect and enhance the skyline of the inner city”.
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A regressive derision if it was based solely on height. The UN hold up Istanbul and Dublin as prime examples of how NOT to plan a city. Decisions like this fuel more and more urban sprawl leading to more and more land being zoned for development, particularly in West Dublin. When are we as a country going to embrace high-rise as a viable and indeed, necessary mode of construction if we are to go down the route of sustainability and green policies on development in this country. This is a backward move by An Bord Pleanála.
Would long great if they moved down the road into the ifsc & built a building similiar to George’s quay with different height floors (but connected),
Eoin
Surely nineteen floors is more than enough. The additional floors are Celtic Tiger greed. SIPTU haven’t intellectually left that time behind. Just look at them trying to destroy the balance sheet of Aer Lingus at the moment. I’m glad their plan didn’t fly!
Dublin is a low skyline city and should be kept that way.
Eoin the FFer lecturing us on planning – that’s a good one!
Yes Gavin, while we zone more land, fueling the next property bubble for speculators to make a fortune while more young families are left in further negative equity when that one too inevitably goes crash. Dublin planning regulations fly in the face of international best practice and are held up as an example of what not to do. High-rise is environmentally a better option and temper down to sustainable levels, the cost of land, particularly in and around Dublin City.
Garry, Liberty Hall is an eyesore but that aside (and SIPTU waste/greed aside) the decision of An Bord Pleanála was not that the extra 3 floors were greedy, it was that it was too tall. It’s a ridiculous, regressive decision that does not stack up with every other planning authority decision on the matter. People have said to me that they support high-rise in theory but that it should only be done beside other high-rises. The obvious contradiction is that you have to start somewhere and decide to progress from that point. This is the third area of Dublin where ABP have stopped High-rise development.
Actually, it’s Eoin the Structural Design Engineer Petr. You need to take off the party political blinkers from time to time.
Gavan , your report must be wrong . Sure , Labour are in Power. Is that not how it works ? Please correct this obviously misleading report , forthwith.
Eoin, there is plently of room outside of the CBD to devolp the land and build high rise buildings. I don’t know about you but I love the low skyline of Dublin. I would rather keeping the structural integrity of the city instead of flooding the centre with high rises blocking out natural light that will probably be lying empty in a matter of years.
How far outside the CBD? Rathoath? High-rise offices are only viable if they are in the CBD. The office space is only resealable at a price that allows the development go ahead day one if it is located somewhere near the city centre. The problem is that this is the third area of Dublin (Matter, Ballsbrdge and now here) where the height has been the issue. The Docklands are the only place left now given ABP’s ruling so now all the eggs are in one basket with regard to sustainable development of Dublin.
And as for the natural light argument, that doesn’t hold sway. It has not had massive detrimental affects to many cities where it’s been planned well like Denver, London, Birmingham, etc. The mix of old and new, low and high has worked out quite well. Go to the Guinness Store House and the Gravity Bar and look out over Dublin. It’s not a sight to behold. It’s a sprawling slum in parts that’s eroding more and more of our countryside as time goes by. When do we say stop? When Cliften is a commuter town and Ennis is part of greater Dublin?
Attitudes that any bit tall is too tall have held this country back for decades and led to the same repeating pattern of construction boom and bust and land speculation. It’s time to break that cycle.
I would have no difficulties with developments like this or others out by th IFSC/Docklands or to the other side of the city by smithfield. I just feel that the structural integrity of the centre of town should be maintained. We have so many beautiful buildings in the central part of town dating right back to to the 18th century.
Look at old Amsterdam. High density does not always equal high rise. They have tall buildings only in certain parts of the city. Liberty hall is an eyesore and I wouldn’t mind if it was replaced with something slightly taller and less ugly but high rise is not the only, or the cheapest way to increase land-use efficiency. We need to replace the endless miles of semi-detached on half an acre and the only communal space being 3 football fields of open wasteland with a shrubbery and a couple of trees with smarter bigger apartments and duplexes, with commercial units on the ground floors and near good transport links rather than heading straight up.
Structural design is correlated to planning as much as baking a cake is correlated to designing an oven.
Why should it be kept that way?
We have to start building up rather than out at some stage!!
That may be so, but do it in the appropriate part of the city, like the IFSC or Grand Canal Dock. I think Liberty Hall is an awful building, and it’s no place for a high rise building
Why, Why can’t they sell the site and build elsewhere. There is plenty of empty buildings in Dublin, that can be finished and used. Unions are a busted flush here anyway, they are letting us down constantly!
An Bord pleanala really aren’t living in the same era as the rest of us. They have a lot to answer for when you consider some of the atrocities they have approved over the years
Delighted.
The thought of these “men of the people” on €200,000+ per year sitting in plush leather seats in a glass building on the 23rd floor, looking down on everyone, had me gagging.
Ah get over yourself.
The building is a eyesore and looks horrible in the city centre.
A 23 story glass building would have been worse.
agreed, it’s definitely in need of renovation. I remember going to visit it in college in 1995 and our project was to design a facade system for it. It’s still in the same state today.
I suppose SIPTU were gonna use the missing money the last government gave them to fund this. Another whitewash.
Dublin does not have a skyline! Cities like London, NY, Dubai have skylines. Why because they have used their heads and built upwards rather than outwards. This is a horrific eye sore in Dublin’s city centre. It could not take away from the beautiful Custom’s House as it is separated by the DART bridge. In fact it would enhance the old with the new if anything. So are we going to build more 3 story office blocks in Kildare, Meath, Wicklow and make it more difficult for people to commute?
Dublin has a low skyline. It wouldn’t be appropriate to stick a skyscraper among many small buildings unless you planned to knock down more buildings and create more skyscrapers. That’s not going to happen with so many listed buildings around.
Stick it in a newer part of Dublin like the IFSC or docklands and plan for more skyscrapers beside it – that would make sense rather than sticking it in an old part of Dublin.
22 floors is hardly a skyscraper. The new building is 5 floors bigger than what currently stands and it looks alot better.
John. Just to clarify every city started with a “low skyline”. New Amsterdam started with a “low skyline”, yet today it has a population of 1,602,000, for its 59.5 km2, which is a density of 26,939/km2. While “low skyline” Dublin has 527,612 for its 114.99 km2, a density of 4,588/km2. What that does is force the city into providing much longer runs of services like water, and sewerage over greater distances, which results in higher installation & maintenance costs. How much less would it cost every individual if DCC did not have to provide so much pipe in the ground? As you appear to require further education New Amsterdam is now called New York.
@Culm? I appear to require further education? Because I have a differing opinion than you? I know where New Amsterdam is/was. I lived there for a few years. If you look at “New Amsterdam” though the tall buildings are concentrated around the very south tip of the Island, around wall street, and around time square. From the bottom of central Park to the north part of the island are mostly low profile and from little Italy to roughly times square are low profile.
This is to do with the bedrock underneath Manhattan, though – you can’t build large buildings in the other areas because of the soil beneath it (seems like I am well educated, no?). The point is that there are certain sections that are low profile, old buildings, and some sections where there are skyscrapers. I am advocating the exact same thing for Dublin.
I am all for tall buildings, just don’t repeat the same planning mistakes that we have many countless times before by building them in the wrong place. Build them around the IFSC and the docklands, create a skyline along the coast. Just don’t build single large buildings randomly scattered and protruding above Georgian buildings.
Tara street station Redevelopment
http://archiseek.com/tag/tara-street-station-redevelopment/
Hawkin House planned demolition and replaced with mid and high-rise buildings.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0208/1224311460512.html
Why would this be a surprise, following the decision on the Mater’s application for the childrens hospital extension?
Here’s a suggestion: Demolish Liberty Hall, it’s an eyesore (and having been in there once, there’s not much office space) and move to a brand new, unoccupied furbished office, that you would get for a steal.
I have absolutely no time for unions and personally I’d prefer if they moved to the moon, but here’s a chance to show some of that solidarity you’re supposedly known for and don’t go spending millions of your members fees on a 23 story folly.
Liberty Hall currently is ‘unacceptably dominant in the city’………TNT required……..preferably at about 11:30 in the morning!
Ha ha Brian… Just as the bearded Comrades arrive to ‘work’. Nasty but nice idea but a good start to a new roadmap for Ireland.
Nice one RP. Selecting a detonation time is critical in taking out as many of the bearded ‘work’ force as possible. Too early in the morning and they’re not in yet……too late in afternoon and they’re on the golf course. I think 11:30 or 15:00!
Madness.
They only come into the office so they can get the ‘come into the office’ allowance which is part of core pay I’ll have you know.
Think Liberty Hall is bad? Have you seen that other kip on the otherside of the Liffey where the Dept of Health is based. Hawkins House….makes Liberty Hall look like the Burj Al Arab in Dubai.
When are those old dinosaurs going in “an board you can do f**k all” going to die off and make way for a new generation of people willing to allow innovative thinking build modern architecture. Dublin is as boring as you can get. The fact you can go up 6 floors and see across the city says it all. (And there’s nothing to see except a stupid knitting needle and Ringsend pipes)
so a new brand new building would be “visually intrusive in the streetscape and riverscape, and would seriously injure the visual amenities of the city and its skyline”….as opposed to the (pardon my french) shitty looking one that it would replace…did they not think the same when they gave the go ahead to the grand canal theatre that has the look of a can of dutch gold falling over!!!. do these people not read their press releases/decisions over a few times to make sure they dont make them look like complete apes…..
in modern day city life/building planning we need to start looking up not out……
^ Conference centre, not grand canal.
I quite like the conference centre.
sorry …yes meant conference centre….
The mater decision was entirely correct. This decision is also correct as we need to walk before we can run. The height of development on the city needs to occur in an organised progressive manner and not simply by making the tallest building even taller.
Maybe An Bord Pleanála can see into the furture – the building will be started but chances are it wont be finished…
On a pedantic note, Liberty Hall is not currently the tallest building in Dublin, Montevetro (Google building, Grand Canal Dock) is approx. 1.5m taller
didnt know that, thanks Patrick. i must say im not impressed by the montevetro building either, just looks like a PC server.
Like walking backwards you mean
This is a absolutely disgraceful decision. The new building was going to be five stories higher than the current eye sore. How exactly would it intefer with the Custom House across the other side of the Dart Bridge?? In addition to the new building being more pleasing to the cities skyline, it would have also created much needed employment in the construction industry.
As for historical significance of O’Connell Street and Grafton Street (a mile away on the other side of the bridge), pity they didn’t think of that when they allowed eyesores such as Penneys, Schuh etc go up which have made absolutely no effort to blend in to the surrounding buildings. Also has anybody looked at the shop fronts, centras, spars, supermacs, mcds etc on these streets, these do far more damage to the historical significance of these streets.
Dublin is an ugly sprawling city and while Dublin City Council seem to be slowly approving construction above 4 or 5 storeys being build, it now seems An Bord Pleanála will ensure this does not happen.
Well put Colin
Remember all the criticism over the The Louvre Pyramid, as it would “seriously detract from the setting and character” of the existing Louvre? The justification for it was the building techniques used in the original building construction were not applicable in the modern day. I think AN BORD PLEANALA must believe we still build the same way we did back when the Customs House was built way back in 1780’s.
Why are people afraid to let Dublin become a proper city instead of feeling just like a scaled up version of a typical grotty Irish town. Dublin needs an impressive central-business-district badly just like other capital cities.
I agree, a total disgraces decision …a new building -even a slightly taller one- is needed. It will enhance the city beauty perfectly matching the ‘old’ beautiful Custom House architecture with a brand new one!!! A new ‘emotional vibe’ would have been added to the beautiful-vibrant Dublin -:)
…could it be a stalking horse????
A new taller building could have possibly led the way for the future. This decision was a total step backwards. How long are we going to live in the past.
I know Liberty Hall is a eyesore, but it is also a iconic building, time for SIPTU to invest in its refurbishment .
The original liberty hall may have historic interest, but the current mess of a building doesn’t, it is genuinely an eyesore. It should be demolished, and replaced with a smaller building on the site to serve as a museum or theatre. The development of high rise buildings should be allowed, but start in areas like grand canal dock – you cannot see montevetro protruding over every viewpoint.
As for siptu, they should move to more modest offices near their other power bases of RTE, Dublin airport or the dail cafeteria.
The current kip could blown up. Just send the occupiers off down the docks. Plenty of empty buildings down there.
Backwards gombeens we need a skyline and ya have to start somewhere
Lets continue not to build up let’s continue to build sprawls like tallaght and clondalkin
Lets make sure we have to spend billions on infrastructure to support these
Lets believe every other country is wrong
MUPPETS
We don’t care in Cork. We’ve the tallest building in the Republic…………..oops I just remembered it’s empty. :(
As for the proposed building it simply looks like a phallic symbol representing the big nobs in SIPTU with the huge egos, salaries,pensions etc. a monument to themselves. They helped destroy our future with the corruption and yet they are still self righteous arrogant idiots.
It’s true that even a renovated 23 story tower would look very odd aesthetically standing on its own above everything else. However another tower directly across the river from it, would give it a much more co-ordinated look.
An bord pleanala are not much help to the city’s growth though. We need some tastefully designed high rise buildings in our capital and yet they seem to want to reject everything ambitious.
Sure how would I know? I’m from Donegal
Wasn’t it some bogger from Donegal built the high rise Ballymun flats that were knocked down recently? :)
I think that’s a Fr. Ted quote William!
Oh ffs – when is Ireland going to wake up and realise Dubin is a city – ALL countries have tall buildings in the city, they have skylines – stop bloody clinging on to the past and allow for progress – we’ve plenty of historic sites outside the city aswell you know. If an Bord Pleanála is so concerned with preserving our country – then take very large paycuts to salary & pension and stop bankrupting this country with your greed. Gobsh*tes…
typical but not surprising from an board block alla ..a chance for an iconic building to stand tall in the city….. stand on butt bridge or the east link and look towards the city..genuinely the only stand out buildings are the impressive Ulster Bank hq and the Ugly Liberty Hall.. They talk about docking cruise ships at our terminals but our city has a pathetic skyline given the construction that went on the last ten years..
Before you condemn Liberty Hall, watch this documentary – http://paddycahill.com/videos/liberty-hall . The building has been abused and badly maintained over the years but is consistently one of the most popular venues for the annual Open House Dublin event. Let’s hope SIPTU put the money they were going to spend on the new building into refurbishing and renovating this important part of Dublin’s heritage.
It’s not a person Ciaran. Just because it’s popular for events doesn’t mean it’s an attractive building, a new building could prove to be even more popular!
This decision is reminiscent of the pulling up of all the tram tracks in the 20′s because it was a ‘dated mode of transport!’ By denying this application we’re just delaying progression.
Buildings have feelings too Derek! :-) The Open House Dublin event is where the public is invited in to visit buildings of architectural and historic interest. We’re not just talking about the building being a popular venue for events. A building doesn’t have to be attractive to be an important part of our heritage. I find your analogy with trams a little difficult to understand. Pulling up the tram tracks was a retrograde step and we are now in the process of relaying them in the form of Luas lines.
With due respect, Ciarán, do you not think the reason for its popularity might have something to do with the views as opposed to the building itself?
Inside Liberty Hall: The only place in Dublin where you don’t have to look at Liberty Hall.
Fair point Aidan! :-)
Agreed Ciaran. The building is an important and almost unique example of modernist architecture in Dublin. The building sufers from the indifference of its owners. The reflective film on the windows lets the buiding down hugely. Hopefully now the building will be brought back in line with the initial design or maybe even given another use. On the other hand the boards intolerane of anything above six stories is antiquated. High rise where appropriate can really enhance the cities visual appearance.
Agree entirely with you
Sorry, I probably should have clarified…. My analogy about the tram tracks is in relation to the excuse about a 23 story building dominating Dublin’s skyline. Dublin will be a very different place in a hundred years time, so when will they allow a sky scraper be built, if they’re so concerned about our skyline?! It just seems as though the future is never taken into consideration.
I agree with you on that point Derek, there is a need for a clear policy on tall buildings in Dublin. It says a lot that An Bord Pleanála are using DCC’s own development plan as a basis to reject this proposal. My principle objection to this particular development is that it ignores the heritage and architectural value of the existing building.
There is also the question of whether Dublin needs that amount of new office space given the extent of vacant office buildings throughout the city.
Great news. Not too many people coming to Georgian to take pictures of the glass block buildings in the IFSC. Any decent building in Dublin is Georgian yet the Dublin City Planners managed to destroy 25% of Merrion Square, Wood Quay and the list goes on. Mind you they keep giving themselves awards for the New buildings. Shame on them. I wouldn’t let them be caretakers of a doghouse.
I fully agree. There have been so many bad planning decisions in Dublin down through the years its about time that they started making good decisions. I’m all for high rise – just in the right location.
Some other bad decisions – Central bank on Dame street (ugly), the building across from the Olympia on Dame street (out of place), O’Connell bridge house (Heineken building – out of place), ESB buildings on Fitzwilliam’s street (where they tore down a whole row of Georgian houses), Stephen court on Stephens Green ……I could go on and on!
Here’s a solution SIPTU remove the “public observation deck and four-storey heritage centre”, bring it back to 19 stories try again. Nothing lost except time, money & oh yeah a public amenity. That way the overpaid bankers who ruined the country are kept happy, while the normal citizen loses out. Nothing ever changes, does it?
Building upwards has it advantages.. less roads, infrastructure and associated costs. This type of building however, may devalue “Nama’s assets” with its knock on effects… Would it be fair to say if companies were allowed to build upwards as opposed to outwards the value of land around Dublin would fall. Banks assets would be worth less, therefore the national debt increased?? The other side is that building upwards would entice corps to expand by lessening the cost of company growth. Jobs are created in both the building industry and within the organisation. Catch 22 situation.
IMO cultural conservation of the city shouldn’t be a issue. Too much time and money is wasted presiding over whether we as a country should stay true to our roots and I think the answer is no. If we want to stay in the past we should trade in our laptops and go back to farming potatoes
Silly idea……….would destroy the landscape!! Sure at this rate we might as well erect something ridiculous like a big giant needle instead!!!
Visual amenities? What the f…..?
Bad decision, the eyesore that is the current Liberty hall looks dated, is dated and is hideous. It’s an ugly building in an ugly city. Don’t get me wrong not all of Dublin is ugly it has some decent avenues and some fine buildings but it also has some of the ugliest buildings and areas in any European city. There is no real skyline to Dublin just those equally ugly striped chimneys as you come in from the sea. The planning board is devoid of any vision and it shows with this bad decision. Regressive thinking from a backward looking organisation, maybe if they had applied to build a few lime green pastel coloured bungalows they might have got it approved!
The Irish Planning Board Run from Craggy Island, Sure ye can’t be puttin’ that there! these morons are a law to themselves.
I like the current building. It is one of the few examples of this style in Ireland. It has been let deteriorate by siptu in order to try and get a new building.
Councils overriding the planning guide lines has been the biggest cause of problems.
What style would that be then?…..cheap, ugly, mini, pseudo-American 1960s skyscraper copyesque style?
An Bord Pleanala Quangos have to justify their existence.
Anybody watch “Madmen” on tv? Liberty hall could easily be repaired and restored as a modern progressive building that respects the contribution of the time when it was built. Very few iconic buildings of this period left. Reusing the building is about being economic and sustainable. This is the kind of respectful and considerate thinking the unions should be demonstrating in a time when people are under pressure and jobs are so scares.
besides if we build out rarther than up wouldn’t that make an obese building……
The present Liberty Hall ,the Central Bank and the Wood Quay offices are an example of modernism blighting the traditional beauty of Dublin. These buildings to my eye are about as aesthetically pleasing as a concrete block.
“I love my brick”
We are in 2012. Time for these deity like planners to realise we have to plan for the future, not for the past.
Is there an online petition to knock it down?? If not, there should be…
Wonderful news…
..a benchmarking decision!
Victoria Hall, quick question… Are you a place or a person?
Oh and if your a place, how many stories are you? No room for hypocrites in this democratic republic!
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