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SINN FÉIN TODAY announced its alternative recommendations for the upcoming budget on 5 December.
Making reference to the “five gruelling, cruel austerity budgets” that have gone before, Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams said that it was their “strong view” that citizens had had enough.
Describing today’s publication as building on the jobs plan that they launched last year, they also committed to launching proposals on the banking sector early next year which would deal with “curtailing bankers pay and getting banks lending again”.
Deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald said that their objective with their alternative proposals was “to protect children.”
Making reference to the recent children’s referendum, she said that “government talked up its commitment to the children of the state. We’re saying to them very clearly that with this budget, they now have the first test of their commitment to children.”
While still committing to achieving the proposed savings of €3.5 billion, finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty outlined the alternative decisions that could be made:
Budgets are about choices. Do you introduce a property tax that calls on struggling households to pay more or do you introduce a wealth tax that asks the most well off to pay more? Do you cut Child Benefit or do you cut politicians’ and high paid civil servants’ wages? Do you protect tax reliefs for those who can afford to avail of them or do you reduce the cost of petrol and diesel for everyone? These are the choices the government has before it. For my party the choices are obvious.
Outlining the alternatives, Doherty said that all costing had been independently verified via parliamentary questions, with “the exception of the wealth tax”.
Wealth taxes
Proposed taxes, totalling €2.758 billion, would be recouped by implementing a one per cent wealth tax on net wealth over €1 million, “excluding business assets, working farms, pension pots and 20 per cent of the family home,” which would bring in €800 million.
A further “wealth tax” would see capital gains tax increase from 30 to 40 per cent, at a saving of €160 million. A similar increase in capital acquisitions tax from 30 to 40 per cent (with thresholds reduced by 25 per cent ) would also save €150 million.
Income taxes
“On the tax side, we have concentrated on sections of society which we believe can afford to pay more,” Doherty said. In line with this, he proposed a third rate of tax, at 48 per cent, which would apply to individual incomes over €100,000, saving €365 million.
A third rate of PRSI, at 15.75 per cent, which would apply to employers on income paid over €100,000 would also save €91.5 million.
Tax reliefs, landlords and private pensions
While promising to “maintain all discretionary tax reliefs,” Doherty said that their standardisation, with the exception of charitable donations, would bring in just under one billion (€969 million).
Landlords would have their mortgage interest deduction reduced from 75 per cent to 40 per cent, saving €157 million, while applying PRSI to rental income would bring in a further €20 million.
“Super pensions” would be taxed further, while pension-related salary earnings would be capped at €75,000.
Gambling tax
A new five per cent tax on gambling, which would be paid by consumers, would bring in €243.5 million.
Tax adjustments
Proposed changes that would put more money in peoples’ pockets included reducing the excise on petrol and diesel by five per cent, would bring in €177.7 million less.
Removing payment of the Universal Social Charge (USC) for those on minimum wage would also cost government €131 million.
A change in tax adjustments to allow for the capping of public salaries would cost a further €115 million.
Savings
Proposed savings, totalling €1.044 billion, are outlined below.
Social welfare, health and education
A social welfare amnesty would save €55 million, with proposals to recoup social welfare payments from employers who had been found to have wrongfully dismissed an employee saving €12 million.
Health savings of €432.5 million would be made by making those who avail of private health care in public hospitals pay full price, while using more generic medicines would save €280 million.
Dropping the subisdy for private schools would recoup €22 million.
Salary changes
The introduction of a pay cap of €100,000 in both the civil and public service would save €102 million. Proposals also included the capping of the salaries of VEC chiefs, City and County managers, and non-commercial CEOs at €100,000 for three years. Total savings: €4,373,201.
Withdrawing the current Secretary General TLAC (special severance pension payment) would save €1.6 million while capping the pay of hospital consultant’s at €150,000 for three years would yield savings of €90 million.
Finally, reducing the board fees of all state agencies by 25 per cent would save government 6.5 million.
Pay and Oireachtas allowances
Sinn Féin proposals include cutting government salaries to €100,000, TD’s to €75,000 and that of Senator’s to €60,000, which would save 4.3 million.
Abolishing Dáil and Seanad allowances, committee chairperson’s allowances and the allowances of super junior minister allowances would save a total of €599,879.
Removing Houses of the Oireachtas commission payments would save €76,000 while capping the pay of special advisors to ministers would save nearly half a million.
Finally, scrapping the mobile phone allowance of Oireachtas members would save €113,000.
Other
Miscellaneous proposals included cutting the government’s jet spending by 15 per cent and cutting professional fees by the same percentage.
Savings in telecommunications would total €2.29 million while increasing the public sector pension reduction for high earners would recoup a further €10 million.
Fine Gael don’t have to implement Fianna Fail policies,” Adams said. “They still have the time between now and budget day to make the right choices.”
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A third tax rate and a cap on public service salaries. About bloody time somebodys pushing for it. I heard an economist on newstalk at lunchtime saying that their alternative budget seems to be costed properly and in order.
They’ve got my vote next time round
O RLY? The Indo are reporting that Pearse Doherty himself admitted that the “wealth tax” had not been costed by the Dept of Finance.
Please note that this is also in our piece: Outlining the alternatives, Doherty said that all costing had been independently verified via parliamentary questions, with “the exception of the wealth tax”.
@doesnotcompute: Yep, the economist on newstalk mentioned that as well. The department of finance were not willing/able to provide figures for sinn fein in relation to the wealth tax. Sinn fein can’t be blamed for that now in all fairness. If they were to use figures NOT provided by the department of finance it would be jumped all over.
Read the INDO headline, “SF admit alternative budget 2013 is not costed”. Then in the article,it says that just the “WEALTH tax” wasn’t costed…
…then it says the dept just “would not cost the measure”! That’s a fair comedown from “alternative budget not costed”!
Inconsistency in that indo article alone is questionable @_doesnotcompute
@Paul Hyland. Would it be possible to find out why the Dept of Finance would not or could not cost the suggested wealth tax?
Hi Kerry,
I’ve just spoken to Eoin Ó Broin from SF regarding this. The reason is because the CSO don’t currently collect household data in a way that makes a definitive calculation of a wealth tax possible. A more accurate capture of household value data is due to be collected in 2014.
Hope this helps,
Paul
Thanks for that Paul.
I’d be inclined to vote in any party that plans to cut its own salary.
Agree with you there Colm, alas that’s not going to happen with the GREEDY bunch of politicians ruining the country at present. They only look after the RICH, Bankers and the political elite same as the previous GREEDY bunch that ruined the country in the first place.
Colm- u shud be minister and get rid of the half of them!
So we’re ignoring the fact that almost a quarter of the adjustment (€800mn) is coming from a measure that they haven’t actually costed, ie: plucked the number from the air! That’s coupled with a €750mn shortfall already.
Considering that a €2.4704Bn correction only exists when you add up the proposals, not counting the wealth tax (again, which hasn’t been costed), that leaves us €1.7796Bn short of the €3.5Bn they wish to save/make.
This budget submission is all sound bite and little in the way of substance. Much of what we’ve come to expect from SF.
Some good proposals there. More of the same please
Good old Sinn Fein…….if they got a chance to implement it we would all be Sinn Fein (on our own) The lights would be burning and nobody would be at home!
Come on lads stop aping old Fianna Fáil and continue with the same programme you are doing up north with the DUP.
Tax our way out of this hole. zzzz…. doesn’t work and doesn’t help growth.
It doesn’t hurt the wealthy either
Taxing people who can’t afford it like the current government has been doing is what doesn’t work. Taxing people who can easily afford it does not impact the economy as much as you are less likely to be removing money which would be spent in the domestic economy.
yes it does, its the only thing that works, spending cuts cost twice as much as tax rises
raising taxes hits hoarded money that has no impact in the real economy, spending cuts take money out of the pockets of every retail outlet in the country with a damaging domino effect following on
“hoarded money”. Savings? So being frugal is to be punished.
thats not what i mean by hoarded and you know it, tax hikes should be relative to a persons capacity to hoard money, its the only realistic way to get as much money as possible working in the economy
Pardon me, but while people in this country pay no tax on earnings there should not be a penny increase in tax take for high earners. If you earn money you should be at the least paying tax. Nobody should be keeping their full earnings now.
Damocles
Frugal ?
Do you know what frugal means ? Do you know what Poverty is ?
People can not afford to EAT .
Get a grip.
Frugal is only going to the pub once a week, foregoing the beach holiday and having to lease out the larger of one’s two yachts.
Don’t talk to me about frugality, m’dear.
Yeah well I am sure you would know all about that .
But do you know poverty ?
Cutting meals every day, so children will have enough.
Going to bed early because you can not afford the heat or light.
Foregoing Christmas presents for family because there just is no money .
I am not m’dear to you so do not patronise me.
Tax our way out…Madness!!! Everyone knows that the first rule of ‘budgeting’ is to spend your way deeper into a hole if you come up short!
Yes a wealth tax is popular as a sound bite but in reality wealthy people have a greater tendency towards mobility to other states where they won’t be ‘punished’ for being successful removing their money from the state along with themselves shrinking the economy. Its would also discourage people striving to achieve the threshold amount from wanting to achieving it also making them more likely to seek foreign employment to progress in their careers. Its not fear that prevents governments from implementing the ever fabled wealth tax, its the logical progression of the negative knock on effects.
You talk of sound bites but the biggest sound bite is the wealthy will leave in their droves . Well I say let them, I am sick of the threat of all the terrible things that can and will happen to us all if we go after the very people who are paying less % . I am broke as it is , uou can not squeeze blood from a stone.
Don’t you oppress me! As a man it’s my right to be a woman! Life of Brian.
We swapped FF for FG which are exactly same policies but a different name. Like rebranding Marathon bars to knickers still same bar inside the wrapper.
Sinn Feinn constantly said austerity doesn’t work lets see what they can do .
Mmm knickers…
Ha Ha you know I meant snickers.
Tell it to Mr Freud Declan ;-)
A Freudian slip…. When you say one thing and mean your mother.
a Labour Party slip:
when you say one thing and pee on your brother
I dont like wealth tax. Taxing someone more because they’ve been successful and worked hard through school and university? One person’s hard work will pay for another person’s lack thereof.
I like wealth tax. Taxing someone who has less because they’ve been unfortunate, worked hard both physically and mentally all their lives, probably couldn’t afford university. One persons hard work goes to waste in order to protect the high earners.
Not Eric, It’s clear to any populist politician flying a convenience flag of socialism that anyone who still has a bit of money in these recessionary times must be up to something.
They reason that if they themselves had pots of cash still it would be because they had been up to something, therefore anyone with money has to have been up to something. This grants them a moral right or duty to seize this money.
Bollox. You don’t have to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth to achieve success.
True Not Eric but it can be a big help.
@eric thats absolute garbage, this country is full of hard working people that never went to college, usually for one of two reasons, (a) they couldnt afford it or (b) they werent suited to academia, are you saying that people that didnt go to college are not hard working or successful? im not saying hard working graduates dont deserve to reap the rewards of their work, i am saying that there is a huge unbalance in the massive differences in pay between different sectors and industries, of course there should be a wealth tax, everybody should share ‘the pain’
Calm down, Damocles. It’s a small proportion of their wealth. They’ll still be able to get by and exploit us all :). Great lads.
… but it helps.
@Revolting Peasant, I never said anything of the sort. I used that as a for instance – I would not put someone down because they didn’t go to college or finish school. You’re right, there are plenty of hardworking and successful people that did neither.
Ok, how about this – someone who didn’t finish school, has an idea and puts 80 hour weeks in, self employed – whatever it is they do takes off. They’ve worked hard, they’ve achieved success – should they be paying for some scrounger’s pints on a Friday night?( before I have a few hundred of you abusing me,by absolutely no means am I suggesting people on the dole are scroungers, Im talking about people who make a decision to claim dole and not even look for work. Lifers)
Obviosuly, the more wealthy will pay higher tax – this is a fact. But to further increase this into a wealth tax – No, I don’t agree.
@ Cinemantal
Of course you like wealth tax . Obviously because you won’t have to pay it. Let’s move quickly to the least common denominator. It worked really well in the USSR. Ahh sh*t while we’re at it lets burn all the books and turn spike island into a Gualag
Not EricR
What about the college/ university graduates who can not get any jobs these days and are forced to emigrate . Are they ”lazy” or the people who worked and qualified in trades and can not find work since the bubble burst ? You have a warped sense of fair play and what is hard work . Shame on you . We all can not be university graduates , but that does not mean we don’t work hard or are gifted in what we do.
Cinementor
Well said .
Damocles
Still spouting nonsense ? Do you ever HEAR what you say !
@Eileen, I have no idea what you’re getting at?
”Taxing someone more because they’ve been successful and worked hard through school and university? One person’s hard work will pay for another person’s lack thereof.”This is what you said . And I am saying that there are college graduates who are currently unemployed through no fault of their own…. So , let me ask you again –”What about the college/ university graduates who can not get any jobs these days and are forced to emigrate . Are they ”lazy” or the people who worked and qualified in trades and can not find work since the bubble burst ? You have a warped sense of fair play and what is hard work . Shame on you . We all can not be university graduates , but that does not mean we don’t work hard or are gifted in what we do.”
even if this would work and get us out of the massive hole we are in…..http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/t-shirts/
when you sell IRA t-shirts on your website ill never vote for you simple as.
Cheer up Paul, Sinn Féin’s T-shirt business is based in Dublin so at least it’s An Roinn Airgeadais that’s getting the tax from all the ‘RA gear and not HM Treasury….
There is always someone that brings up the old and tired t-shirts argument, it’s old.
These t-shirts tell us how crazy these loonies are. It is easy to say that we should get over the past and move on. Should we forget about our friends and relations murdered by these loonies represented on some of these t-shirts?
Paul Nolan
Thanks for that link , I must order some on line for Christmas . :)
No Patrick but we should forgive that Looney Thatcher British Army and Billy Wright UVF UDR for murdering our loved ones.
I wonder what the fascists (Fine Gael) will have to say about this?
They’ve always said SF have been dealing in magic maths but here it is, in black and white, a proper plan for once.
Very interesting to note that they’ve always said austerity doesn’t work too and that SF will push on with a stimulus package. Austerity has certainly not worked in Greece or Spain and even England, who are relatively much better off, realise austerity doesn’t work either.
In comparison across the Atlantic, the USA are ploughing through with a stimulus package and it is working. Steady growth and a continually declining unemployment numbers.
which would you rather sinn fein’s budget ? or labour/fg ?
@David Kennedy
Is that a serious question?
The FG/Lab budget is just austerity. That clearly doesn’t work, as countless examples have proved, not to mention several Nobel Laureates have condemned Europe’s obsession with the failed policy of austerity.
The Sinn Fein budget is to actually GROW the economy. This is what the USA are doing and it’s working.
If Obama had pursued a policy of austerity, I don’t think he’d have earned his second term in office. Especially considering he’s just steered his nation to it’s 32nd consecutive month of job growth.
Meanwhile the eurozone reached a record high unemployment level this month of 11.6%. Oh and the eurozone is back in recession too!
So austerity (FG/Lab) or stimulus (SF)? C’mon man, it’s a no brainer!
woops didnt mean to write that last comment…….SF have been saying time nd time again that you need a stimulus to lift the economy.but it has been shot down each time by the leaders we have who keep saying we have to cut spending nd raise taxes to get out of this! we have seen the economy fall apart…..well obviously SF policies must be right in some way! if they have the backing of certain economists! and once again after this budget were gonna see the unemployment numbers and rate rise….instead of doing the smart thing and get people off the dole by investing in jobs……..which would lead to revenue and taxes increasing which closes the deficit! even tho the fine gael fianna fail labour way is! put people on social welfare and watch them scrap through the weeks and year!……….any of you realize were paying out 18 billion in bank debt next year ? also 20 percent of revenue is going to pay off our debt’s ?
Well there still is doubt over the exact amount of the wealth tax which could put a severe dent in their proposals if their figures don’t pan out. But there are some measures here that I think are good and worth taking on.
However comparisons with the USA are pointless. The USA is basically writing cheques that it can’t cover. The only reason they can get away with reckless overspending is because they are such a large economy and markets are terrified of a US crash. But even they have been told by groups like the rating agencies that at some point they are going to have to get their house in order. They can’t continue to write debt up like they are at the moment.
As for England, far from realising that austerity doesn’t work, they are pressing ahead with major reductions in spending over the next few years.
@David Kennedy
Don’t worry about it. SF are basically suggesting everything that Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz, a pair of Nobel Laureates, are saying Europe should be doing.
Spend big to grow the economy in bad times and when times are good again, tax more to pay off the debt.
@Jim Walsh
Actually Jim, if you paid attention to Obama’s deficit reduction idea at all during the election campaign, he’s planning on reducing the deficit by $4 trillion by 2020. If it wasn’t for Bush’s insistence on this War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, they’d be in much better shape financially but you can’t have both a safer nation and a balanced budget.
Also, the markets aren’t terrified of a US crash. Keep an eye on the hedge funds and people like Ray Dalio, the kingpins of the markets aren’t remotely scared of a US crash in comparison to Europe. They know that as long as Europe continue to struggle, the US won’t be able to get back to full capacity as an economy.
The US lost is triple-A credit rating because the ratings agencies severly doubt the ability of any administration to get the US deficit under control. They are already heading for a “fiscal cliff” in January of this year which, if they don’t come to some arrangement on, potentially will pust the US back into recession. And while the “War of Terror” did damage the US debt position it is not right to say that it was the only thing that contributed to the deficit.
The point I am making is that the US can get away with far more than a small economy like Ireland. If the US had been an Ireland back in 2007 they wouldn’t have been able to get away with spending more and more like they did.
@Jim
The credit rating agencies remind me a lot of the pundits on the US election. On the other hand, the hedge funds remind me of the likes of Nate Silver. The pundits got the election predication horrifically wrong. Silver got it spot on.
My point being maths beats gut instinct.
As for the fiscal cliff, that’s the result of the impasse caused by the Republican party trying to undermine every single positive thing Obama tries to implement.
You are right in saying the US has a lot more room for maneuver in comparison to Ireland but the smart money on the markets aren’t worried about the US, they’re worried about Europe. Obama’s putting his plan in place to erase the deficit. Europe is cutting, cutting, cutting and hoping at the end of it all, they might have made a slight bit of progress.
Lets not forget about that 9 trillion Patrick.
Printing money works for a while bit ultimately FAILS
@PunchUinFACE
Well obviously they can’t eliminate $15 trillion worth of debt overnight. Which is why Obama will eliminate $4 trillion of it by 2020 and the next presidents will also do their bits to overcome the deficit.
Increase tax for higher earners? Because that’s working so well in France.
Says the high earner….
You don’t know what I earn. You’re guessing.
I based my comment on the fact that you’ve been asked several times if you are a high earner but never answer, and the fact that you always comment in favour of leaving people who earn more alone.
Are you a high earner?
That’s not really any of your business. I’m in favour of equality regardless of gender and sexuality too, doesn’t make me a woman or a homosexual.
Wealth taxes will hurt the economy as we’ve seen in France, and that’ll hurt everyone regardless of how much they earn.
And it seems to me to be unbelievably petty to think that someone would only oppose a tax policy if they were directly affected by it. What of the larger picture? What of wider society?
We’ll take it you are in that case……….another high earner whos solution to the economic crisis is everybody else putting their hands in their pockets.
“Weâll take it you are in that case”
@werejammin – Typical rubbish. Why should anybody have to disclose any personal details in order to comment of their views of an argument? This is a classic ad hominem attack. If you can’t attack the point attack the poster. Its not just petty, it show a fundamental weakness in your argument.
Relax Jim, we all know damocles is a high earner already.
Damocles
A word I have heard from a certain RTE presenter
three times this week ! Hmmmm ? I never heard
it’s use before .
Whatchoo talkin’ ’bout Eileen?
And I suppose by the fact that I support him in this matter I’m also probably one of the caviar eating, wealthy members of the elite.
Food poverty is rampant here now. The song Oliver comes to mind .
But the I’m alright Jack brigade just don’t get it.
Someone here isn’t picking up on the sarcasm.
Fact of the matter is Sinn Fein are the only shower that have the balls to follow through with proper budgetary and fiscal reform.
I don’t necessarily support Sinn Fein nor any other parliamentary party yet I would LOVE to see them get their day in Government and I will vote accordingly.
Get over the past.
We should be discussing why we are forced to implement austerity instead of how.
The ECB exceeded its authority in coercing the Irish government into the repayment of private banking debt in the bondholder bailout. A legal case needs to be taken to the European Court of Justice in relation to this blackmail of a sovereign state.
Payment of all outstanding banking debt including the promissory notes should be withheld pending the verdict of the ECJ.
If the Irish government continue to refuse to take this legitimate measure to protest the Republic then the Irish people should force them do so by initiating a national Mortgage Strike.
This idea that taxes “save” money is very interesting.
In the weird world of Shinner economics, everything you earn or own belongs to the state, except to the extent that the state is generous enough to let you keep it.
That’s hilarious!! “Shinner economics”…at a time when the current gov is PLANNING to charge EVERYONE for the privilige of living in their own house,whether you can afford it or not!!
“This idea that taxes “save” money is very interesting.”
They save the earner from the worry of working out how to spend their own money.
FG are doing all they can, to protect the Rich and their friends. Labour just want, Jobs for the Girls and Joe Costello’s two sister in laws got positions of Senator and Judge!
And of course Sinn Fein if they got into power would be so whiter than white that none of this would happen. Do you seriously believe that? There are already situations where Sinn Fein TDs have been seen to milk the system. Six months into a Sinn Fein administration you can be damn sure that they would be allegations that the same thing was happening.
By the way are you suggesting that any relative of a TD or Senator should be barred from taking any sort of public position even if they were suitable for it.
Are you referring to the ‘situation’ that Pearse Doherty was exonerated for or the inkgate ‘scandal’ where the real scandal was how much the dail pays for toner cartridges?
I’m pointing out the ridiculous naievety in believing that those who you support are whiter than white and will be incapable of doing anything wrong.
Granted they pay far too much for toner, but anybody who tries defend the amount of money he spent is deluded.
The shinners will be every bit as bad as all other politicians in this country.
No jim, you mentioned ‘situations’, and I reminded people of how transparently devoid of an actual situation those ‘situations’ were.
@Patrick Colm Devaney
and he is following this by UNLIMITED QE at the moment in the US, as I said you cannot print your way out of this and Obama also said he was going to lower deficit at the start of the last election, talk is cheap.
what’s not cheap is being a modern day Empire, and this is why the US spends more on military than the next 10 top spenders on defence(offence if we are honest) Keeping all those military bases around the world to protect US interests is not cheap.
Well done Sinn Fein. At least its equitable.
Define equitable? It would seem to be far from that in that it doesn’t encompass the idea of everybody paying more, which would be equitable, but just some sections of the population paying a lot more. This has been the criticism of current government policy. The only difference between this policy and the Government’s policies are the perceived targets of the policies.
Some of the posters do not know what high earner means:
€ 100,000 per annum or more (or €2,000 per week)
Why would people oppose taxing such a massive salary? Even if taxed at 1% Ireland would still have one of the lowest taxes on high earners in Europe. Since the 1980′s, taxes on the top 1% wealthy have been falling.
Is that a massive income? GDP per capita last year was $40,100, or €31,290. If you have two kids and your spouse isn’t in employment, €100,000 puts you below average.
Sinn Féin budget = Cuba without the sunshine
A wealth tax makes some kind of sense if you earmark the proceeds for genuine capital projects. The people paying it won’t like it, but they’ll at least see some sort of return in their own country. And we certainly need some infrastructure projects, for all sorts of reasons.
Using a wealth tax just to keep the lights on is asinine. Worse even than FF’s insane idea of relying on stamp duty to increase the public service. Then again, it’s naive to think that this has anything to do with raising revenue, just as Hollande’s 75% tax rate isn’t really intended to plug the public finances.
@ Alex Nesbitt
What sort of capital Projects had you in mind. More roads, yeah we really need them or maybe wind farms ( the more you generate the more it costs, wonderful !) And then to really take the biscuit because we are pussies to the EU rules we give the projects to foreign companies. Capital projects me asre
Well I was making a general point, but off the top of my head: Dart Underground; rail link to Dublin Airport; Greenways (which are so cheap we should do them anyway), sorting out the mess that previous governments made of Limerick …
The fact that we have done some capital projects badly does not mean that we should never do capital projects.
Ahh Mother of Jaysus not the bloody Metro again. Will you people never give up on it. Even O’leary says it’s a white elephant
Er … you realise I didn’t actually include the Metro, right?
‘Dart Underground; rail link to Dublin Airport’. The only difference is the semi colon. And that’s the only difference
Oh please not the anti-Metro again. Why is it that people seem to think that the Metro was just about Dublin Airport as if it was there was only going to be two stops on the route? The Metro was going to serve not just the airport but Swords, one of the largest population areas in the city as well as lots of areas in between. It was a significant part of the overall transport infrastructure of Dublin city. Ironically the cost of the Metro would probably be significantly cheaper today if it were to be proposed.
Leaving the specifics of the Metro, Alex is right in his assessment. If taxes raised by a wealth tax were earmarked for capital spending they would be worthwhile because they would create stimulus and further growth. Using them as a way of financing current account spending as opposed to trying to control spending ultimately doesn’t help the economy in the longer run. That is exactly what FF did between 2002 and 2007 with stamp duty.
@ Jim Walsh
Jesus wept! Swords. Give it up we’re broke. We’re going to build an underground that costs Billions so the people in swords can go shopping. I despair. Not only would it cost billions but would cost multimillios to run it and once again , like CIE and Dublin bloody bus the taxpayer would have to subsidise the fares
@John the Baptist – So we should just not bother building any infrastructure whatsoever then. Sure why not scrap the Dart and the buses and all other forms of public transport while we’re at it. After all they are all making losses. Won’t really matter will it.
Now that the SF/IRA have been thrown out of their big houses ( Mc Feely) they want the rest to pay and if they don’t get their way they will stage a dirty protest in the Dail. Throwing xxxx at the opposition and spreading it all over the walls. You can visualise Mary Loo.
Oh your on about the hunger strikers who starved to death.Your a gentleman.
Most moronic post I’ve ever read on the Journal. Well done.
Possibly the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen round here all week. Well done.
The sooner Sinn Fein are in power the better,all the customers in the pub are suffering with the recession and they are sick of this goverment.
“all the customers in the pub are suffering with the recession”
Are you actually typing these words?
If you kick out the Fine gael, I’m goin back to Africa.
Alex, Richard is indulging in a form of satire.
Hope your not gay, they will kill you.
@ Frank,
No Mary Loo looks like she’s been eating it
@Damocles, @Richard – too subtle for me, sorry.
Frank 2521
You are being ridiculous . Go back to sleep’
Barack Obama says wealth Tax and its prophetic Sinn Fein say it and there loopers its not about policy in this country its all about how the electorate like to think of themselves just my view.
Most of the posters on this site are indicative of the problem, a little bit of knowledge, mixed in with your old prestigious and no view of the big picture, happy to draw lines either left or right and place yourself squarely in that box.
Who’s a high earner who’s not,, who gives a shit!!
Is having a wealth tax the exact same thing as taxing a persons pension which Sinn Fein were against?
Taxing legitimate already taxed gains is not an option.
Interesting but they need to widen the tax bracket at the lower end also, we meed more people paying tax.
Hmm… that “unverified” wealth tax is supposed to save 960 million. That’s rather a gaping hole to leave. I also don’t get the antipathy to a properly structured and administered property tax – it’s a standby of socialists everywhere. I don’t even disagree with their aims and yet I still find this unconvincing.
Also, “Sinn Féin proposals include cutting government salaries to €100,000, TD’s to €75,000 and that of Senator’s to €60,000, which would save 4.3 million.” – Could you get the copy-editor in, please? It should be TDs’ and Senators. I wouldn’t normally object, but two mistakes in one sentence is excessive.
I love a woman who gets pedantic about the written word. xx
There is no point arguing with self-styled socialists who oppose the concept of a property tax. They are beyond help. We should point and laugh at them.
You know Alex when you point a finger at anyone there are 3 fingers pointing back at you , silly !
However I do agree that a wealth tax should be imposed on the wealthy. Also ,my home does not earn me any income so I will not pay property tax .
Not a word about the wasters who are career welfare cheats, women on one parent family payments when they are living with their partners etc. The reason they don’t is because the majority of their support come from the scroungers. Tax the wealthy…..change the record
Your as dopey as your comment! Go through it again!
A socialist party that’s not pushing for a property tax has to raise questions. As usual, Sinn Fein go for the populist options rather than step up to the plate and push for what’s effective and fair…
lol are you joking? that’s a fail right there.
While I don’t dismiss all of these suggestions I have severe doubts over the €960 million figure suggested from the wealth taxes. This seems to me a bit like they worked out what gap there was in their proposals and then plugged that figure in to the wealth tax to make it all work out.
The other point I disagree with them on is the property tax. It has been long recognised that Ireland’s tax base is too narrow and it needs to be widened. A reasonable property tax is one measure to achieve that and is the choice of most socialist parties the world over. But because Sinn Fein are wedded to populism they refused to see the logic in this measure because they know its easier to play the anti-property tax card.
Its this cynicism in their proposals that undermine their credibility for me. It would have been braver and more honest for them to say that this was one thing that is necessary in the current climate. But ultimately populism will always win out with Sinn Fein. They have in effect become the new Fianna Fail with a mantra of saying anything that they think will appeal to the masses. What is more interesting is that despite everybody lashing Fianna Fail for their populist policies over the previous ten years we are still willing to listen to any other party that tells us the same thing.
The problem in most Irish mindsets is that anytime a wealth tax is proposed, the neo-cons immediately say “you can’t tax it” and the people fall for this trick. I’m not arguing with you, but the tax base was narrowed because Fianna Fail gave tax breaks to the top 1% during the 1990′s.
The tax base was narrowed when Fianna Fail abolished rates which were in effect a property tax back in 1977 which affected everybody. Since then its been considered anathema to propose any sort of property tax. But ultimately property is a form of wealth and I don’t think its unreasonable to suggest that it should be taxed.
Jim, a family home cannot be considered as wealth . A second home, holiday home or bought to let, yes, but the roof over your head? C’mon.
And yet from the foundation of the State until 1977 it was considered wealth and was taxed in the form of rates. And this was at a time when we had far less money.
They replaced the rates with PRSI in the 70′s
Oh good suggestions for positive investment
Link DART to the airport (no brainier)
Green Energy specifically “spirit of Ireland” project. I looked at this and really seems like a winner, unless I don’t have full info
Many good points in the proposed budget. It is true that FG and FF are just re-branded clones of each other, and Labour is complicit in their disastrous economic “blueprint”. They all want to keep their heads above water by standing on our shoulders. Then they call themselves “leaders”.
SF has shown some testosterone. Despite what FG and FF say, the rich are not suffering terribly in this “recession”, they are gobbling up speculative assets at record low prices. Time for them to pay their fair share. Their FAIR share. You’ve tried every other option: FG, FF, Lab, Green, and you’ve been handed your pantaloons. If you don’t want to live like dogs, stop supporting the kennel club.
The rich does not include people on or around ?100K. People on this are just more likely to have a more crippling mortgage. Far from rich.
I have a few comments to make about this budget.
€432.5m to be recouped by private health insurance. Money which will be passed onto the consumers.
They in turn will leave their policies and the cost will go back onto the taxpayers.
Also, do the people that pay extra for health insurance not deserve any healthcare from their own taxes? They are to be completely cut off? Yet they pay for the health service through their income tax?
That’s some equal society that SF want.
Also for the children in private schools? Should the state wash their hands of educating these children? Or do they deserve equal rights to state funded education as all other children? Should there be one law for one child, but treat another child differently? Is this the society that we want?
The gambling tax is a good one. Except that most gambling is now done online. The company only has to register themselves in another country and they don’t have to charge this tax.
Wouldn’t this drive gambling away from the betting shops on the streets? The only ones that are paying various forms of tax.
I’d welcome anyone that could correct me on that point.
The 5% reduction on petrol and diesel would be most welcome. But, wasn’t this already proposed in the Dail by another party? Little bit of plagiarism going on there I think.
There’s just a little reflection on this proposed budget. Without really looking too deep, I have seen a €0.75B shortfall already.
Considering that I can only see a €2.4704B correction when I add up the proposals, not counting the wealth tax that hasn’t been costed, that leaves us €1.7796B short of the €3.5B they wish to save/make.
All in all, it seems to be a mish mash of ideas strung together in the hope that no one actually looks at it.
I have a feeling that they only want the headlines to be about the wealth tax. Just incase anyone actually reads the proposals.
John,
Sometimes my shirt is blue, other times white, my shirt today is green.
And no, I didn’t vote for Joe. Not that it’s any of you business.
Care to debate the issues I raised in this post, or the post below?
No. You just attack the man instead of the ball.
When you resort to insults, instead of discussing the issues, do you think it helps you to get a point across in an intelligent manner?
If you want to discuss my posts, fine. If you only want to trade insults, then I’ll leave you to it.
all im reading are sound bites in this alternative budget. populist crap. its easy to say they will do everything perfect when tgey arnt in govt. but when they get in like in the north they implenent austerity measures themselves. populisg propaganda will not get these guys elected to govt .
I could save us all far more than 3 billion a year by cuting the bloated budgets of councils, the HSE and social welfare, theres about 20 billion to play with in the social welfare budget alone.
A wealth tax is the worst idea, all it does is punish the real workers, spenders and employers of this country, the people the left keep calling ‘the rich’
Stephen Church
Sure why not line up the old and sick and infirm , the young the poor and the uneducated ,Oh ,don’t forget the physically disabled and the mentally disabled and the unemployed ,and SHOOT THEM. Ethnic cleansing was once in vogue with your pay masters.
now now eileen, im not a socialist , capitalism doesnt do gulags and genocide
Stephen
Ha ha … I am a real worker but am certainly not wealthy.
How about yourself , Are you being paid enough , do you not feel a bit fed up paying all the taxes while the wealthy get away with paying less % wise .
Because I am fed up with it all and tired of this patronising arrogance .
Typical populist nonsense from the shinners
Those taxes + very open economy = Capital Flight
138 comments. Not one has mentioned any of the other proposals apart from the wealth tax. Which isn’t even costed.
They have their headline.
Danny thats because the know sinn fein are right and they can only find fault in something that will affect the rich!
Goes to show you the amount of self obsessed idiots in this country
Did you even bother to read my post above. Without even putting in any effort, I picked off £750m from their budget, not even including the un-costed wealth tax.
You seem to be making the very basic mistake of thinking that because something was costed by the department, that that is the amount of money that will be generated.
I’ll give an example.
Say, they wanted to put a tax on trainers. €100 per pair.
The department would look at how many pairs are sold each year, then multiply up. Say 1m pairs. Raising €100m.
Do you think that this new tax will raise €100m?
No. Because people will either stop buying them, or will buy black market pairs.
So do I think they would cut €3.5B off the budget with these proposals?
No. I don’t believe they would get near to that.
actually makes sense take it off them who can afford it but bet they find a way to worm their way out of it
Interesting but they need to widen the tax bracket at the lower end also, we need more people paying tax.
just inquiring does this relate to there jobs proposals announced in recent months ?
Isn’t property tax the same as wealth tax?
‘Government still have choices’- does that make them pro-choice????
Why not bring the 10% betting tax that was here all ready no one ever complained that would bring in 487 million .
have your say