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TÁNAISTE EAMON GILMORE has refused to confirm reports that the soon-to-be introduced property tax will cost the average homeowner between €200 and €400 a year.
During a rowdy Leaders’ Questions in the Dáil this morning, the Labour leader dismissed questions from Mary Lou McDonald about the new tax and said that all information about it will be revealed on Budget Day.
The Sinn Féin TD had accused the government of leaking details of the property tax to a national newspaper. The Irish Independent this morning reported that the property tax will be a flat-rate tax when it is introduced early next year and will be based on the market value of the house.
The report suggests that homeowners will pay a rate depending on which band their home falls into each, with each band increasing by €50,000. A house worth €235,000 would pay an estimated €500 a year.
However the Tánaiste said the issue is a “budgetary matter” which is currently under consideration by the government and Minister for Finance, and would not be drawn in on the details.
Gilmore also criticised Sinn Féin for what he described as the party’s “hypocrisy” over property tax. He recited figures to the Dáil detailing how much property tax average homes in Northern Ireland pay ever year, ranging from £506 for a house worth £75,000 in Coleraine to £1,100 for a house worth £150,000 in Antry.
“Does the hypocrisy of Sinn Féin know any bounds at all?” Gilmore asked, to loud heckling of Sinn Féin from the government benches.
McDonald described the government’s approach as “straight out of Fianna F’áil’s four year plan” and said the government coalition is “continuing to implement their [FF's] austerity plan”. She called the plan to tax family homes a “crazy policy”.
Gilmore did not answer a question about whether a waiver for the tax would be available for people on low incomes but said that the Budget, which will be delivered next Wednesday, will be “fair and balanced”.
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Nope! I’m broke. Sorry, blood won’t come from a stone. See you in court.
Maybe if you went to less rock concerts you might be less broke …
Are we the only country on the planet who’s socialist parties and individual left wing politicians do not believe in a tax on property
jerry,
This is and always has been a conservative problem. Raise all the taxes you want on the middle class but you are not going to do squat to the debt until you seriously address tax breaks to the top 10%. The fact that we can’t even talk about reducing the rate of tax breaks without the Right squealing like stuck pigs proves that we are in big trouble. The Blueshirts (and Fianna Fail) have proven that they are not going to do anything about the debt and that they are just going to keep taxing the ordinary people.
@ Jerry,
The tax is unfair. If you paid enormous stamp duty a few years back, it is very hard to accept this. We also pay bin charges, career dolers wont be paying this tax? Tenants wont be paying? What about people living in apartments paying managment fees? Why are there rumours of new house buyers being exempt? It’s unfair…
That said if they came out and said for the next 10 years the house tax will be fixed @ 200 per annum I would consider it.
A home is not a luxury Jerry, it’s a necessity for living and family. Take off your blinkers or wake up, its immoral and Enda Kenny agrees!
” career dolers wont be paying this tax? Tenants wont be paying? ”
A jobless person will also be forced to pay this unfair tax. Tenants are not property owners – it is the Landlord’s responsibility. We do not need a hate based tax system. We need a system that cuts tax breaks, pensions, salaries, and bank debt. None of that has happened.
@ Joe, When I say career dolers I am referring to the losers that live off the state, like their parents did and like their kids will.
You know the type or maybe you haven’t noticed. I can see them walking past my window now, pushing a pram, wearing a tracksuit and throwing a smoke butt on the ground.
Or am I being cruel?
Stephen
you live in a small modest home in Tallagh you pay little you live in a luxury pad on Alysboury rd worth more you pay lots .. that is a fair tax.
It is a tax which should never have been abolished and was done so purely to win an election in 1977
The opposition politicans here are against its re introduction for the same reason.
We have all paid high taxes on our property and on our mortgages too and now this extra tax is the limit
Jerry, I’m no left wing nut. The lack of substance in the left is the only reason I don’t attend the protests. I cannot pay. simple as that.
How much will those in Council Houses pay?
Not true Bernadette, many people paid no property tax (stamp duty) while many paid tens of thousands. An annual payment is a much fairer system but very difficult to introduce in the current climate. Rates should never have been abolished. Thank you Fianna Fail!
@ Toorkeel they will be paying €00000,00 while those if us that struggled to save fir our homes will be the fools to pay this extra tax and remember we are paying in the region if 72 taxes as it is out of our hard warned salaries and our salaries are getting so meagre now we are left with nothing
Heating our homes us becoming harder and harder and for most now it is a case of Food or Heat,
@Reg income tax was increased when “Rates” were “Abolished” to cover the cost folk are still paying that tax we also pay PRSI to cover hospital A+E and beds but we still have to pay €100 when we visit A+E And fortunately I do not know how much a bed in a public hospital cost at this time. We also pay USC’s another tax that gives nothing back the difference though between the Property tax and PRSI AND USC,s is every working person pays the PRSI and USC’s with the property tax it is only folk who took the the road to have security of owning their own home for their old age We ALL have paid taxes in our homes on every block and stick that went into making it a house and then we pay tax on our Purchases to make it a home and you Reg tell me I am wrong Todays vat on building materials is 23% which is passed to the buyer and now we are as homeowners ( not tenants) to continue paying Rent with no returns.I did not over borrow I did not create the national debt I did not mismanage my income I do not owe one cent to anyone We worked hard and long hours to look after ourselves we bought our home for security in our old age and now we are facing a rent on our own home So Reg why are we paying 72 taxes to end up paying yet another unfair tax
No they feckin won’t!! It’s like everything else in this country, the people who get up each day and try and better themselves are the ones that are whipped more! They are expected to keep the freeloaders in the life they are accustomed to. By using the word “freeloaders” I in no way mean the hard working people who lost everything in the bust. I mean the gutter rats who contribute nothing to our society and never have, the ones who live the system!
@Bernadette. Yes, you are 100% correct. The coping classes, those of us who pay 80% of all tax revenue in this country are the ones are paying again….the “working” poor….If this tax is to be introduced, everyone should pay. Those who appear to be exempt use the same facilities and services as the rest of us and therefore should also pay. That is the way in the UK and most other Western countries….
Barry
There is no doubt there is genuine cases of people who cant pay .but there is a lot of people who don’t want to pay which is different , as this tax is been collected by the revenue rather than the councils it will be harder to avoid and the penalties for not paying will be stiff
What I do find interesting is that statistics will tell you we are hoarding cash like never before and if you look at the amounts of Concerts and gigs been held here every year at huge prices there seems to be a lot less hardship going in then portrayed by the media .
I saw headlines recently that students were starving and leaving college as there grants had not come through yet look at any of the areas around colleges here in Cork on a Thursday night and it is party time like never before .
the larger the percentage of the national income taken by taxes the greater the deterrent to private production and employment. When the total tax burden grows beyond a bearable size, the problem of devising taxes that will not discourage and disrupt production becomes insoluble.
Henry Hazlitt,
Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics
Irish tax take exceeds 50% of GNP. Amongst the highest in the developed world and unprecedented in the history of the state.
Without doubt we are governed by the most economically illiterate government this nation has seen.
The problem isn’t the tax itself though if they sold it in a different way- community based tax or something to that affect it may not be as bad. The problem is the way it is collected. Just because you live in a house of a certain value does NOT mean you can afford to. Life changes, deaths, separations, divorces, disabilities etc change the goalposts for many. This should be introduced more slowly.
Well said!!!
Not true- you might have inherited the house in Aylesbury rd, you may be dying of cancer, you may have 10 kids etc etc -it dosnt mean a thing. I worked 5 jobs to be able to afford the house I’m in-then my husband f..led off and never paid one more penny towards his kids etc. I have a decent job, a nice house and am completely penniless so ……………..
So what should I pay first Eamon, my mortgage arrears or property tax? if I don’t pay my mortgage I lose my home and if I don’t pay the property tax I’m criminalised. Ps stop sending me notices about a Tv licence, it’s the last thing on my list
Eamon I’ve got no objection to paying property tax if the same conditions are attached to it like in Northern Ireland you know thing like free education including books etc.
Regarding hypocrisy you would be well qualified to identify that Eamon seeing as your political life revolves around it.
Exactly… In the north your home rates and taxes pay for bin collection every week, roads salted regularly in the cold, free education and health care… Etc..
Here we are taxed to the hilt and receive nothing for it.. now they expect us to pay another tax for no return
Just because other countries have property taxes doesn’t mean we should jump on the bandwagon. It’s called being independent-minded.
Jerry, Look up property tax in other countries and you’ll see what citizens get for it. We pay way too much tax here, for what we get and its all for pen pushing prats in the public Service! We can’t afford, these people!
And we thought we were badly off under British rule now the 4th Reich will grind us dry with endas help
Hang on a sec there ……they cherry pick the things they want to benchmark against for their own benefit, thing is comparisons work both ways ( pro & con)
Not paying it. Cant pay it. It seems that anyone who tried to better themselves over the past few years is now being screwed.
“Does the hypocrisy of Sinn Féin know any bounds at all?” Gilmore asked, to loud”
Seems Eamon is getting into brass neck/short term memory lose mode,just like most of Fianna Fail are now.Funny to be hearing Gilmore talking about hypocrisy when he is one of the biggest hypocrites in the country.
What? it was SF that called him out on it! Typical s#%t from FG, kite flying to see how there scams will float in the budgets! Wasn’t it labour and FG that are opposed to taxing the rich more? yeah they would rather cut and tax the likes of them crafty people that are downsyndrome etc, yeah sounds like them alright..
How do they decide how much a house is worth? Is it the price I paid when I bought it or the price I would get if I was to sell it now?
Reports a few months ago suggested they’d use current market value based on recent sales of similar properties in your locale.
House prices are still falling ,so will you get a lower rate when your house value drops into a lower band .Think not
yes based on the property price register at http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/. However the problem for me is that only one house in my estate was sold last year and its a bigger house than my own home. Will they be taxing me based on a completely different house?
Guys
The tax is been is self calculating so it is you will determine what your house is worth however if you get that figure massively wrong you will be penalized . So if a slightly bigger house sells in the park for 200k than your is in around 180k calculating it at a value of 80k will mean you will pay penalties on the 100k when it comes to been rectified .
In France where income tax is on average about 60% the property tax works out at about 3k a year for the average home.
If you are renting you pay a habitation tax of around 1700 per apartment oh multiply that by 3 if you are in Paris
If they use the current market value based on recent sales in your area, they are in for a shock in my area, as any house that is for sale there is on the market this last two years, worth feckall!
Looks like its Frankfurts way still Eamonn… Labour will be wiped out in next election just like the greens. They championed all these great things they’d do if they got into government and rowed back on all of them…
@ DubDon. Correct. Labour did exactly the same thing last time in power as well. Dick Spring et al lied, cheated, squirmed and employed so many cronies and family members it became a scandal. “Everything changes but everything stays the same”.
Ironically Dick Spring is now sitting on the board of AIB as “our” public interest director. Between 2009 and 2011 Dick picked up €132,000 in fees……As you say nothing changes.
So Dick Spring ( what a name) is in AIB on behalf of the GOVT? So he was there and knew about 1 billion of taxpayers money to boost the ailing AIB Pension book for, what was it? 10 people. well done Govt you bunch of incredulous mouth breathers.
well he talks alot of Bullshit! apart from that he does shag all!!
An simple way to collect this would be to raise vat rate on esb bill. Spreads it out. Costs nothing to collect ( I.e we won’t need a new Quango set up pumped full of FG/Lab concubines). It can’t be paid by some and not by others.
Property tax is double taxation. They’re taxing you on something you purchased from money you already paid tax on
FG don’t care. They want your money one way or another. There’s only two alternatives here: Raise some taxes, cut some spending, wait for results, redo, etc until deficits are eliminated, starting with Minister’s Pensions, salaries, high-earners, tax breaks, and the promissory note.
Using a VAT rise on ESB would mean that everyone pays the same – not fair. The property tax will be a wealth based tax as it will be linked to the value of your property.
According to your logic, all taxes (including VAT), apart from taxes on earnings, are double taxation.
All money you earn is taxed so by your logic, wouldn’t VAT be double taxation too?
@bob. It doesn’t mean everyone pays the same.
An old person living alone listening to pat kenny on a radio pays a lot less than someone like me with 2 x 50″ plasma TVs, Wii, DVD players, 4 smart phones, 5 laptops, 2 netbooks, etc etc. it’s a fairer way of collecting it.
Now if I want to reduce my bill I confiscate all the gadgets, turn off the TVs and for evening entertainment I throw a single digestive biscuit in the middle of the of the 4 kids and the Rottweiler and listen to them fight it out.
“Listen” because I’m in the dark of course
“The property tax will be a wealth based tax as it will be linked to the value of your property”
It won’t because:
1) It hits a jobless mom or a jobless dad
2) It hits mostly the middle class
3) It gives the rich a break if they pass the property off as their place of “business”.
We should be increasing taxes on the top 10% wealthy earning above EUR 100,000 a year – not prolonging their tax breaks.
@cathal. Excellent point. The only difference is when u pay vat your choosing to spend money. With proprty tax ur not. But yes. It’s also double taxation
@bob it’s NOT wealth based tax-it’s a property based tax-NOT the same. If it were wealth based tax, I’d pay very little but because I busted my ass 11 years ago to move my kids to a better area, I’m screwed now-my “wealth” is 1/4 what it was then.
@bob it’s NOT wealth based tax-it’s a property based tax-NOT the same. If it were wealth based tax, I’d pay very little but because I busted my ass 11 years ago to move my kids to a better area, I’m screwed now-my “wealth” is 1/4 what it was then.
Can somebody explain to me what Eamonn Gilmore does?
The little rascal…..
Adebayo
I’m sorry, it is off topic a bit but, the guy is a joke.
Received a letter telling me I neglected to pay my household charge.. Well I did pay it..! So, your mistake..! And, No I won’t be ringing the low call number asking me to confirm I paid the charge.. So, keep sending the letters and I’ll see you up the steps..! Adios..!
same here-I’m not wasting my time or price of a phone call when their time and money would have been better spent checking first -let them take me to court before I’ll prove I paid it..if they can’t make a list and check it twice…
Let them keep introducing new taxes until the stupid electorate stop voting for them.
I’m running out of different political parties to vote for though.
Independents, Sinn Fein ?
Us irish we moan n moan n yea that’s it…. Wel never take to the streets, or kick out FG or FF… Wake up people there 1 n of the same… Wel moan n moan but in the end wel pay… As always
Clearly we should be re-investing the tax, when we pay it, in education.
Paul, out of interest, is your English really that poor? I can’t imagine anyone who has passed through an education system, even one as poor as ours, writing such an unintelligible mass of gibberish.
Cpn, perhaps we should be sending you back to that education system. While the spelling and grammar are poor, anyone who actually paid attention in English can still comprehend what was said.
Why should I have to interpret what he said, Jason.
The purpose of education & the English language is to enable us to express ourselves in a clear and concise manner, I fail to see how I can be held accountable for his inability to express himself.
Actually the purpose of the English language is to communicate with other individuals. You don’t have to be clear and concise to get your point across. Even though his grammar and spelling were terrible I could still understand it perfectly without needing to read it twice.
Clearly the problem is in your end of the court. Either your grasp of English is too poor or you genuinely couldn’t have been bothered to read it a second time. Either way it is not the problem of the original poster because others can understand it.
Create a Grammar Police license that requires a fee and we probably won’t need property taxes at all.
Gilmore as a politician has been the biggest let down.
I had some hope when they started talking about property taxes that the Irish people would refuse to pay it, I was wrong. The people have lost their balls. We are being bullied by FG and their banker friends. Fighting Irish my hole!
We haven’t lost our balls up here in Donegal! Also, how are the gubbermint intending to implement a property tax early next year when approx 700,000 people haven’t paid the household charge and are not on the register? People who haven’t paid have and have not received warning letters, people who have paid have received warning letters, people who have been dead 30 years have received warning letters, property developers in Donegal owe DCC €4.77m and the council have not done anything in regards to chasing them down…..jesus, it’s a complete joke…
Dear Joe
As the revenue will now be collecting the tax I do hope you have never claimed mortgage relief on your home because if you have they will come after you .
and if the rich put there home address down as there place of Business they will be subject to commercial rates which are much higher and yes it hits the middle class the same as all other classes who own property
life s tough get over it
@Joe
according to rte paye taxpayers will have it deducted at source, spread out over the year to, and I quote, “soften the blow” I don’t think we’ll get a choice of wether to pay or not. That rte story has seriously given me a sick feeling in my stomach. I’m barely keeping my head above water, this will drown me
In fairness to Gilmore, I wouldn’t expect a paid public servant to let me know how much he’s going to charge me, it’s not like he’s there to serve the people, it’s great that FG and Labour keep everything from us, sure with that information we’d probably all go mad, it’s for our own good
Well that’s firmly secured FF as the next government. Seems pretty steep from where it was at. Also a lot for anyone to stump up in one month. Unlikely to be as draconian as it sounds to trick the electorate into thinking they got a great deal in the end.
I think it will be Sinn Fein and Independents as the next government. France for example elected different conservative governments over the years before making a change. I can see the same happening in Ireland in 2016.
Well lets hope so as they are destined to bankrupt the place totally which means we will lose sovereignty to the IMF who will in turn rip up Croke Park and start the place from scratch, which would be the best thing that could happen.
Jebus save us if SF are put in charge!
Go to your Local TD, bang their desk and create havoc! They won’t know, you’re unhappy posting here!
Trying that for years now Stephen. They pretend to care but do nothing.
Someone left Pascal a message, because he wasn’t in when the citizen called and Enda wasn’t eggstatic today!
Romantic Ireland is dead and gone,
It’s with Charlie Haughey in the grave.
I can’t believe how ungrateful you all are! There’s Eamon (€184,000), and his special advisers including Niamh Sweeney (€80,051), Mark Garrett (€168,000), Colm O’Reardon (€155,000) and Jean O’Mahony (€83,337) spending their every waking moment trying to make the Tánaiste look good! Sorry, I mean trying to get the country out its present financial crisis. Nope, that doesn’t sound any better, either.
Gypsies,thieves and tramps.
Dirty,rotten, dyin, diseased, thieving, rat bastards!!
Here you go Eamon. Especially for you.
http://addicted2adwords.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/nah_.jpg
We have the Best Politicians money can buy. so stop moaning
Is that sarcasm?
Yes
Fg and labour will be decimated in the next election if they bring this above 200 a year which leaves ff and sf in together.
We will be paying another tax for no service. Straw breaking a camels back comes to mind.
Wealthy schools benefiting from tax back scheme:
“The State spent just under €2 million last year on a scheme that favours the country’s wealthier schools. Last year, 171 schools availed of a special tax break that allows them to claim money back on voluntary contributions worth €250 or more. Two schools got an additional €72,500 in State support as a result of the scheme. The majority of the top thirty schools that availed of the measure were in Dublin”
This Tax break was introduced by LABOUR’S Ruairi Quinn when he was Minister for Finance in the 1990s.
How Dare Gilmore ask sinn fein about shame regarding double standards regarding the South and North property tax..They get services up the North you Bloody idiot Gilmore, they get healthcare, dental care, bins, schooling, school transport, water, and so on. We in the south do not, everything is taxed, everything is a stealth tax. We pay tax on our mortgage, when we got our mortgage and monies exchanged hands between financial house and builders, tax was paid..tax tax tax tax.
Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fail please Foff and die
Gilmore — please confirm the salary plus allowances, expenses and pension costs for the job Rory Quinn created for your wife.
Our journalists have not kicked up a storm over this corruption as I am sure they have traded favours for leaks etc. bad enough our politicians prostituting themselves for money and power like the unions but the journalists need to look at themselves for their lack of ethics.
fair and balanced, I think not….. look after the 6 figure sum earners screw the middle income earners every which way they can and make a small hit on the social welfare recipients…
Right, that’s the Third time I’m made the same post , it appears for a fleeting moment, then disappears! What gives journal staff?
seems the government are considering a post tax so you’ve seem charged for your original post and all the posts since. just cos you can’t see them doesn’t matter. tax is applied when comment is submitted!
Every day its one negative statement after another is there any good news. People need hope.
Francis, for hope…do not apply here! :-)
Now maybe all you Donegal haters will stand beside them and realise at least one county has the balls to stand up and say no more.
This comes after it was reported yesterday that TD’s get tax relief on their second homes. When are you going to stop moaning behind your closed doors and do something and stand behind Donegal and say we have had enough
Where did my post go?
Did you pay the new postal charge to receive your post?
Is the journal deleting my post? If so, why?
In Europe the house holder pays property tax not house owner. So ill pay when people in council houses pay. Thats the only fair way. They also receive street lighting, parks etc…..
This is the last straw
The new stickies fighting with the old stickies. This will run and run , political hypocrisy from Labour and Sinn Fein.
They can go and shite, i’ll let me local councilor come to me door and ask for it.
0.2% of the value of the property. Is that the value at the time of purchase or the current market value? And of it is the current value how is it established?
Get the fecking banks to pay the bloody 2% it’s their bloody fault we are in this mess and hold on isn’t it them that have received 64.5 billion worth of this bailout fund. 1100 ghost estates around the country are we paying for them now to be taken down too.
Anyone wanna buy a house.
If your selling in Dublin contact a minister it seems they can claim a tax relief for a second home. I wonder if they are also excused the €200 holiday home / second residence charge as well?
Correct Wesi – let Labour and Fg give people the same level of services that folks in the north receive and people might consider paying. Isnt that labour policy anyway?
Also – Gilmore king of the hypocrites -if he is so concerned about what happens in the north, he might get up off his behind and support the call for fiscal independence to be transferred from London to Belfast.
Until then, he should shut the gob, or at the very least try and match the services which the people in the north are getting for their bucks
Would a site valuation tax rather than a house valuation tax not be fairer? It’d also not fine people that improve their homes (insulation, solar panels etc).
Not comparing apples with apples again or if he believes he is it shows how inept he actually is…… Sort out our oil and gas, manage it properly and take a nice hefty chunk in tax
Solution 1. Don’t work. 2. get Council house 3. pump out kids. 4. And this is crucial never ever attempt to better yourself. 5. You’ve made it sit back and watch daytime tv safe in the knowledge whatever the headline on the 6 1 news is it won’t affect you just those who are lucky to have a job! mission accomplished.
according to rte its .02% and paye taxpayers it will be taken at source to, and I quote, ” soften the blow!!!!!” I genuinley don’t know wether to laugh or cry!
Only the poor pay tax so pay up folks including me.Now back to work its not bad today good few around siping beer.
Also reducing your income tax in line with how much property tax you pay might be a good result? I thought it was in a tax policy document published a few years back.
More deflective rhetoric from Gilmore. This constant comparison to the North is nonsense. SF are entitled as opposition to question the property tax. I’m glad they have. And as far as ” fair and balanced”. A labour TD who ironically has a perverse idea of what is fair and balanced. I am appalled that I helped put this shower of crooks into power. Embarrassed that I actually believed the pre election promises. Believed they would stand and change politics in Ireland and strike a deal in Europe on our debt. These SOB’s were elected on a mandate, I don’t remember voting to have property tax put on my house. In the immortal words of another crook. This is GUBU.
I’m voting for Dustin d turkey next time round Better than these muppets in power Go on ya good thing !!!
So here are the problems with this:
WHO decides the value of a property ???? It changes from year to year.
Is there going to be someone who values your property and everyone else’s from year to year.
Why don’t we “run” our properties into the ground so the value is lower?
not the way to do things gov.
have your say