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THE LACK OF representation of Irish emigrants at the Constitutional Convention in Dublin has been condemned by Irish abroad.
The Irish government has been criticised for giving the impression abroad that “the emigrant is not important, even though the emigrant dollar clearly is”, in an editorial on popular ex-pat website IrishCentral.com today.
An Ipsos MRBI poll published in the Irish Times earlier this week suggested there is strong backing for giving Irish citizens who live abroad the right to vote in presidential elections.
Some groups argue that Irish emigrants should be allowed to take part in all votes in Ireland, including general elections, referendums, local elections and presidential elections – although this suggestion has been met with some opposition.
The issue is set to be examined by the Constitutional Convention which meets for the first time next weekend – however, there is no emigrant representative on the committee.
“Ireland badly needs to get in line with international consensus and provide its emigrants with a means of taking part in elections in the country of their citizenship,” the piece in IrishCentral.com read. “Successive Irish governments have always maintained a healthy distance from the diaspora, never fully comprehending its priorities, its perceived foibles or its intent.”
“The result has been many missed opportunities to build the links that are so vital to Ireland at a time of maximum distress in the old country,” it added.
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What a fine luxury it would be to vote without having to live with the consequences.
Col de Gal, just a suggestion, you should probably change the party you currently vote for, the consequences of which may be a little more bearable.
I always vote, and not with any particular party allegiance. I do stick around afterwards though. There are many among the diaspora who voted parish pump and then fecked off when it all went belly up. If they want to vote it’s nice and simple – live here. Wanting to vote from afar when the results have no effect on your life is a bit rich.
Not sure I agree with the fecking off when went belly up bit, think its a bit more complex than that. But the vote abroad could also be useful for those living in Ireland, say for example it was a tight run between two parties, then a vote abroad could tip the balance in favour, of course that would only be useful for half the voters.
Governments here seem to have always taken “the out of sight out of mind” attitude towards emigrants. I think the main reason is so as not to shine a light on there own failings to manage a country with a population less than half of that the London Met area.
As for the fecking off when things go belly up, I think that betrays a notion I’ve come across that emigrants are somehow less committed and therefore less “Irish”. Which is totally wrong.
So you live here all your life, pay taxes, are part of a community and contribute to society and this is completely disregarded the moment you take up residency in another country? hardly fair is it?
The other issue is the numbers, they say the Irish Diaspora is close to 80 million, or those that can claim some sort of Irish descent, massive numbers in comparison to the current 5ish million residents of the Republic. Maybe one way to combat the obvious problems there is strictly define the Irish categorization i.e. how far back is one permitted to go in terms of voting rights, which in turn could contravene anti-discriminatory laws. On saying that when compared to other progressive countries Ireland really represent the position of third world countries in respect of their nationals abroad. The fact that you may live or work else where does not suggest a permanence and many return, or have full intentions of returning, the migrant workers in Canada, Australia and USA are on work visas and may not have the same renewed so their position is temporary and a necessity given Ireland have nothing to offer at the moment.
Maybe we have lived through the consequences and had to leave because of them not through choice
Sounds fair to me. If you’ve quit the country, you’ve quit.
Great, if they want to vote, then they can pay tax here too. It makes no sense that they want to vote on the operation of the nation if they aren’t footing the bill like the rest of us.
Just like US citizens pay tax in the US no matter where they have moved to.
I fear the notions of ‘Irishness’ in the US may mean some antiquated republican mentality starts to creep into the vote though if expats from the US get to vote here. How Irish American’s contributed to Noraid, the political extremism that funded, and what that money was spent on indicates a complete lack of understanding about how Ireland really thinks, lives and sees its future.
By your logic, people who are in Ireland and don’t pay tax shouldn’t have the right to vote.
Your second point is completely undemocratic. Your big “fear” with allowing people who live abroad to vote is that their opinions may not be inline with yours.
Ireland doesn’t think with a single thought on a large array of issues either.
Everyone pays tax in Ireland. Perhaps not Income Tax, but certainly a significant amount through VAT.
My big fear with allowing people who don’t live here to vote on national matters is that they don’t live here.
Ireland doesn’t think with a single thought, but Ireland is comprised of the people who live here and their many thoughts, not the people who don’t live here.
Very US focused, Irish are everywhere, I’m currently in New Zealand in order to work, I’d like to think my opinion counts as moving home is what most here want to do!!
Arbitrasure maybe your fear is that those who emigrate might learn we do not need to ruled by fools and vote accordingly?
Or maybe he’s worried that people who live abroad may vote for whatever populist party is around and then if those populist solutions don’t work and it all goes belly up those people still have the luxury of not being directly affected by the mess they’ve helped create.
Are we supposed to believe that once somebody goes abroad they gain some amazing wisdom that allows them that is denied those who stay at home?
I’d like to vote and I’m not adverse to paying some kind of tax in order to do so. No taxation without representation can work the other way too. Not sure yet how much I am prepared to pay though! I think in fairness that I’d have to pay for something like 3 years straight, then I can earn the right to vote – stops people from deciding to only get involved in election year. If I stop paying, then the cycle begins again for me. But I’d want to vote in my “home” constituency rather – than some “emigrant” or “overseas” constituency – for the tax I pay.
If paying tax is not feasible to implement for some reason, then a possible alternative is to only to have a small number of new “emigrant” constituencies instead. The french created 11 overseas constituencies in their last parliamentary elections: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/01/french-expats-vote-parliamentary-elections
I think 2 to 3 overseas constituencies would be feasible for Ireland on our population base.
Generally, but not always, I find that the Irish living abroad; especially those doing so for a long period of time seem to be more nationalistically minded and patriotic than a lot of people at home. You would have to wonder, do the powers at be fear this would equate to, lets say massive ex-pat support for Sinn Fein from America. Something that a lot of important and lucrative people who pull a lot of strings do not want to see.
If you need any examples of massive nationalist support from Irish-Americans you do not have to look too hard to find monster fund raising events and solidarity events.
I agree that we should have the vote, especially when we consider our European counterparts are permitted the same. Not sure I agree totally with the Sinn Fein dimension, although it certainly is relevant, but I think its probably more to do with a perceived threat to the the entire political status quo in Ireland at the moment. Having been out of the country for 15 years, looking back in its much easier to see the level of corruption and poor policies and politics of the entire island, its not really that absence makes you more nationalistic or patriotic in fact in my experience I find the reverse more relevant, its more to do with the veil having been lifted.
Good points, Sinead. That’s why I said not all, but many. Disect history – throughout decades upon decades the Irish in America have been incredibly radical, from raising funds en-mass for the Fenian Brotherhood, to holding monster rallies to show the need for Irish freedom and later unity. To raising millions of dollars for Eamonn de Valera. And in living memory, holding massive displays of support for the Hunger strikers; and great grievance on their passing. History has repeated itself, history will repeat itself. The majority of Irish Americans always stick with the most radical side of Irish politics.
Nah, if you don’t have to live with the changes, then you shouldn’t have the vote. … sorry.
I’d rather ensure that our new immigrants who have been here for a significant period of time have the vote first.
Yeah certainly in america that is the case, historically and currently!
How could an emigrant be in Dublin for the next year or so to participate in the convention and still be an emigrant…..
The recent track record of our ability to choose our leaders was achieved in the full knowledge that we’d have to suffer the consequences. Imagine who we’d put in there if we didn’t have to live with the consequences of our voting patterns.
I agree with the proposition in the article. Though I propose that the emigrant should only be able to vote for, say, 5-7 years after leaving. If they don’t return by then, their interests are clearly not in Ireland any more.
I’m a recent emigrant, and I won’t go on a rant about feeling hard done by over the way the previous government messed up my chances of a real future in Ireland, but I don’t know that I’d have left if things didn’t go so arseways. I still pay taxes in Ireland on my home which is rented out and all of my family are still there.
However, in the country I’m settled in, I have no vote, no say in how it’s run due to the visa I’m on, and I won’t for several years. So, I have no vote anywhere. Feeling disenfranchised.
Finn Hynes Very Good Point, could be a good way around the issue.
Everyone above has assumed that emigrants wanted to leave the country! I am an engineering graduate who was on the dole for 9 months trying to get a job and the only place i could was here in the UK. I would love to still be living, working, paying tax at home and doing my part to get Ireland back on track. I read the journal and the Irish times every day, and I plan to return home as soon as I can secure a job within my field. I don’t think I should lose the right to have a say in what happens in my country just because I was forced to leave. And I know there are thousands more in the same situation as I am.
Excellent post Chris. I think the fear here amongst political parties is that those who leave will learn that the current set up in Ireland is not the norm and hence their total resistance to giving a voice to those who had to leave Ireland a voice.
Yes, whereas our “he fixed the road” mentality has served us well
Every Irish citizen should have the right to vote regardless of where they reside. PERIOD!!! … We have exported our problems for decades: that’s why nothing ever changes… The brightest and the best are forced to leave, thereby becoming effectively disenfranchised, …meanwhile the parochialism & corruption become more entrenched – the rot has tainted everything. Every institution has been found to be corrupted and self-serving.., the good within these institutions are now counted in the minority – and are hampered in their efforts to “steady the ship” by the growing sense of anger/apathy/alienation (…) in the general population. There is no easy solution.., but a purge of those who have been entrusted & rewarded – and found sadly and criminally wanting – would make a good start… BTW, anyone thinking of coming home and supporting/funding “The Gathering” should make the proxy-vote a condition – at least make it a political “hot-potato”…
Sean I was composing a post, read yours and found that you expressed my views more cogently, forcefully and effectively than I could have done. Great reply! You hit it on the nail!
Great post Sean Fox. Hopefully you will keep on posting here.
Oh please, the idea that all of us who remain in Ireland are all dullards who aren’t capable of going abroad or making informed decision is grossly insulting.
By the way be careful what you wish for. In Italy in the early 90s there was a feeling that the politicians were all corrupt and needed to be removed. Who did they end up with? Silvio Berlusconi, the xenophobic Northern League and the neo-fascist (at the time) National Alliance!
How do you know that any new set of people you vote in will be any different or better than those you replaced?
I live in Australia and I still have family who are back home struggling on a daily basis to survive and keep the wolves from the door. I would like the opportunity as an emigrant to vote, if for nothing else to hopefully improve the lives of the people I love who didn’t get the opportunity like I did to emigrate. Also, if a lot more emigrants did have the opportunity to vote and improve prospects at home, then maybe those of us who were forced to emigrate for one reason or another, might have the chance to move back to a more positive and prosperous country.
Come on you nay sayers. Enlighten yourselves. Do not think that those Irish living abroad are any less Irish for the fact.
As an emigrant i would love to be able to vote and contribute my opinion. Not a SF/FF/FG/LAB/Greens voter as they bring noting new to the table. So who is their? For those who say we left when the going was tough. Sorry to say i left at the highest point of the Celtic Tiger as the writing was on the wall. When an idiot like Bertie starts giving lectures on economics its time to pack your bag “soft landing”.
many of us physically left Ireland and with that left family and friends also our hearts.
I would love to vote !! and feel that my time over seas in many countries has educated me enough to contribute in a good way to my country of birth.
Re my post last night: my reference to “the brightest and the best” was intended to reflect solidarity with those who had to leave and is not intended to imply anything by way of a sweeping generalisation about those who reside here – I’ve spent most of my life here! However, who can deny that those who might like to change things from within are denied a potentially hugely powerful force of change when our citizens that leave effectively leave with absolutely nothing: in a democracy isn’t our vote the essence of our citizenship? What are we without it? We have had wonderful individuals within our political system, but recent history clearly illustrates that there aren’t enough to foster a real change in direction… Where will the Labour Party be in five years..? Meanwhile, The steady tide of revelations about our institutions – and the pillars that buttress them – speaks for itself, and to my mind doesn’t warrant further comment…
Typical….immigrants fighting to vote & only 33% of voters in Ireland turn out for Children’s referendum. However, I don’t agree that Irish citizens abroad should have a vote….those who do exerecise our vote are voting on decisions that affect our daily lives.
I’d like to vote and I’m not adverse to paying some kind of tax in order to do so. No taxation without representation can work the other way too. Not sure yet how much I am prepared to pay though! I think in fairness that I’d have to pay for something like 3 years straight, then I can earn the right to vote – stops people from deciding to only get involved in election year. If I stop paying, then the cycle begins again for me. But I’d want to vote in my “home” constituency – rather than some “emigrant” or “overseas” constituency – for the tax I pay.
If paying tax is not feasible to implement for some reason, then a possible alternative is to only to have a small number of new “emigrant” constituencies instead. The french created 11 overseas constituencies in their last parliamentary elections: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/01/french-expats-vote-parliamentary-elections
I think 2 to 3 overseas constituencies would be feasible for Ireland.
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