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Opposition parties hit back at criticism of their alternative budgets

The government claims neither of the two main opposition parties had their pre-budget submissions fully costed but this has been described as a “complete red herring” by Fianna Fáil.

FIANNA FÁIL AND Sinn Féin have both criticised the government over its claim that neither of the two main opposition parties had their alternative budgets costed by the Department of Finance.

Though the two parties acknowledged that their pre-budget submission documents were not costed as one document by the Department of Finance, they both defended their alternative proposals.

Sinn Féin finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty said that all bar one of his party’s budget measures – the €800 million wealth tax – were costed while Fianna Fáil’s finance spokesperson Michael McGrath said the government’s criticism was a “complete red herring”.

In the Dáil on Wednesday night, Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore was particularly scathing of both opposition parties and independents in the Technical Group claiming that none of them availed of a facility in the Department of Finance which costs opposition parties’ budgets.

“It beggars belief that none of the opposition parties and none of the opposition independents, it would appear, went into the Department of Finance to do any kind of serious examination of their budget proposals in advance of this Budget,” Gilmore said.

He said that not having alternative budgets costed “diminished the quality of the debate” and said the opposition “didn’t do a serious job” in having their budgets “properly costed”.

But both parties said that some of their budgetary measures were not costed because the Department of Finance would not cost them. Both said that all other measures were costed through parliamentary questions or submissions to the Department.

‘Costings in the public domain’

“Fianna Fáil got the Department of Finance to cost all the policy options that they were willing to cost. We submitted a very large number of parliamentary questions and other ideas were costed separately by the Department of Finance,” McGrath told TheJournal.ie.

“Everything that could be costed by Department was costed,” he added while insisting that the government’s criticism was “a complete red herring and an attempt to distract from their own budget”.

McGrath said measures in their document in relation to the tobacco industry and diesel would not be costed by the Department while Doherty said that the Department would not cost one of Sinn Féin’s biggest budget measures, to raise €800 million through a wealth tax.

Doherty told TheJournal.ie: “Every single one of our taxation measures were presented to Department of Finance for costing, they costed every single one of them, bar the wealth tax. All of those costings are in the public domain.”

He said that Sinn Féin wanted to ensure that their costings were transparent which is why they started submitting parliamentary questions (PQs) even before the summer break. On Friday he released a full breakdown of the PQs Sinn Féin submitted which helped formulate their alternative budget.

Doherty also claimed that several measures in Fianna Fáil’s budget were “simply not costed”.

He said that Sinn Féin was able to cost its wealth tax proposal through use of an answer to a parliamentary question last year in which Finance Minister Michael Noonan said that if the French-proposed version of the wealth tax was imposed in Ireland it would raise around €500 million to €600 million.

He also said that the party’s biggest pre-budget revenue raising measure, standardising discretionary tax reliefs would bring in €960 million and he said that his had been fully costed by the Department of Finance.

Read: Are Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin to merge and become… Fianna Féin?

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51 Comments
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    Mute Keith Wizzy
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:39 AM

    Eamonn can talk. His party, Fianna Goul hadn’t even handed the budget speech to the opposition prior to beginning their monologue.

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    Mute Gussy Hughes
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    Dec 8th 2012, 6:53 PM

    Fianna Goul ha ha!!

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    Mute B M O'C
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:52 AM

    I love the way the opposition party beats their chests in indignation . lest we forget who got us into this mess and then fecked off with their big pensions .?????????.

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    Mute howsaboutya
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    Dec 8th 2012, 3:13 PM

    I agree but we need to look at the present and future. ff were appalling but enda and co need to get a new excuse. It’s history

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    Mute Sean Beag
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:53 AM

    FG and Labour were the same in opposition. More interested in point scoring than doing what’s best for the country. In Ireland we should rename the opposition to the populist bandwagon.

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    Mute Bruce
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:39 AM

    problem now is that labour continue with the populist stuff in government

    18
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    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:40 AM

    Curious. Did any of the opposition TDs suggest cutting Endas exorbitant pay, even say to 150k. And ministers from 169 back to say 125k?

    Did a single one call for the scrapping of the CPA?

    The only time during the budget speech when I heard uproar from the opposition was when cuts to politicians expenses were mentioned

    I personally find that revolting.

    56
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    Mute Enid O'Dowd
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    Dec 8th 2012, 10:28 AM

    There were no real cuts to politicians expenses; it just sounded from the Minister’s speech that there were.

    Those on the €15,000 pa unvouched option are now moved to the vouched €25,700 pa option and this figure may be reduced by 10%. Thus the €15,000 ers get an increase of approx 50% but run the small risk of being audited (10% are audited). As we know some of our politicians have shown creative skills in providing invoices!

    The FOI does not apply to the vouched option so there is no way the public can check how their money is spent. the auditors will only look for an invoice and a receipt; they won’t look to see if the company exists, or if there is a family connection etc between the person issuing the invoice and the TD.

    The Dublin TDs scandalous €12,000 pa turning up money is untouched because that is ‘vouched.’ The clocking in vouches that!!
    The €28106 pa travel allowance paid to those living 25-59 km from the Dail remains. In fact all travel allowances remain the same.

    The real hardship – 50% reduction in Oireachtas free post envelopes and the scrapping of the Ministerial severance scheme. These two matters must have caused the uproar from the opposition you mention!

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    Mute Enda Curtin
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:28 PM

    let’s not forget also that Santy’s come early to Kildare Street in more ways than one:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1208/1224327655318.html

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    Mute Enid O'Dowd
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:05 PM

    Further to my earlier post saying the politicians travel (turning up money) was untouched in the budget I’ve been attacked by the Press officer at the Dept of Public Expenditure and Reform today in the Irish Times over a letter I wrote published on thursday saying the money was untouched.

    The Press officer says the Dublin rate is cut by 25% and all the other non Dublin rates by 10%. Now why was this NOT in Ministers Howlins speech? I checked the full speech online tonight to be sure I hadn’t missed this bit.

    Now why would he leave out mentioning a cut that would be popular with the public?

    Was this cut decided just after the Budget given the reaction to savage cuts like the one to the carers respite grant?

    In any case this cut to travel is nominal. the real issue is that those living near enough to commute should pay their own travel costs as all other workers do. Dublin TDs after this 25% cut will get €9,000 tax free to turn up.

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    Mute Stephen Wilkie
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:51 AM

    There all as bad as each other. They constantly target the same people, and its the same old jargon everytime. What we need to do as a Country is kick up stink and take to the streets. Enough is enough.

    56
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    Mute Matt Donovan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:00 AM

    FF, I sincerely hope that we the people don’t have short memories, you & your high flying friends have destroyed us long before the current government got their claws into our children’s futures. Not only did you disregard the will of the people more than once for our Teutonic overlords by making us vote on an issue we’d already said no to & opened the country’s borders to ALL accession states but you have sent tens of thousands of our best & brightest to lands far away, many never to return. Fianna Fáil; please go away. When I see you or hear you I’m reminded of the friends who’ve left, of the fiends broke & broken, the sick & dying & the destitute. Most of all I’m reminded of my children’s futures gone before they even had a chance to do anything with it. Go away.

    42
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    Mute Stephen_Lynch
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    Dec 8th 2012, 2:24 PM

    At one FF fund raising dinner in 2006. All the people there were estimated to be worth 60bn.

    FF are the Landlords party, the Anglo Irish Landlords could only dream of screwing Paddy to the degree that they have.

    If they get back in, it will be straight back to the envelope and the bribes. It is part of the culture and it is what a lot of people joined FF for.

    4
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    Mute Alan Shaw
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:48 AM

    Give it a rest. The wool has been pulled so far over eyes I don’t need a woolly jumper anymore
    We’re not falling for the banter anymore

    42
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    Mute rusty9
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:55 AM

    Michael McGrath is a leader in waiting.

    Noonan still has not answered the question whey he misled the people of Ireland when he said that the bondholders had taken a hit in the region of 50%in the Anglo “deal”on Quinn. We will keep asking until we get an answer. We were promised transparency and accountability. I’m still waiting.

    56
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    Mute james doyle
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    Dec 8th 2012, 7:42 AM

    Still playing party politics,pointing the finger at eachother,handbag stuff while the toilet is been flushed down the toilet

    39
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    Mute Bruce
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:37 AM

    Wise up people. Eamon Gilmore has zero interest in you or me.

    He is too busy breaking his promises and feathering his own nest.

    Just remember he said no to the carers yesterday. Imagine what 90k euro would do for carers respite. Instead he fabricated a job for his wife.

    The Labour members should be ashamed to have Gilmore as leader. He and Rabbit are destroying the party. Sinn Fein are going to wipe out Labour over the next 5 years.

    37
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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:10 AM

    Its clear that gilmore has more interest in political one up manship than he has in sorting out core issues

    33
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    Mute Kevin Doherty
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:16 AM

    Michael McGrath just reminds me of Bernard O Shea off the Republic of Telly every time I see him. Anyone else see that?

    32
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    Mute Gavin K
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:19 AM

    That’s who he reminds me of I couldn’t place him I was trying to think of some movie I had seen recently. Ha ha he is the hock tuey of him

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    Mute Stephen_Lynch
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    Dec 8th 2012, 1:56 PM

    Bernard at least would be credible on financial matters. You can see plainly that McGrath hasn’t a notion what he is on about.

    2
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    Mute Steven Geoghegan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:02 AM

    fianna fail may have caused this country’s economic mess but thinking fianna Gael could be the country’s answer was ludicrous. when people voted them in it was akin to going away on holiday and letting your teenage kids look after your house having misplaced faith they wouldn’t have big parties and distroy it. I say get fianna fail back to clean up, and sort it out. there are literally no alternative parties out there

    31
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    Mute nocturnal paramedic
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:12 AM

    You’ve got to be joking… I’d rather eat my own arm than give FF a shot at government again!

    69
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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:13 AM

    FG was the lesser of 3 evils i dont think they werent voted in with faith that they will do an amazing job i think it was just the best of a terrible bunch

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    Mute Ryan oneill
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:31 AM

    Jay, if FG fulfilled their pre election promises I would agree with you. But I never voted FG for being the lesser if evils….didn’t even think they were evil until this budget. If I’d know they would renegade on their part if the deal and turn into a worse party than FF I wouldn’t have voted for them, I would have thrown my vote ind. FG are WORSE than FF! No party with an F in its name will ever get my vote.

    32
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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Dec 8th 2012, 8:41 AM

    Thats the sickening thing they did barley nothing they set out in their mandate but sure if the shinners were in power jesus they have some work on their hands fullfilling the stuff they claim they would do not short of saying money trees in every garden free unicorns when you sign on

    12
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    Mute Dermot Purcell
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    Dec 8th 2012, 10:10 AM

    Jay you say FG is the lesser of three evils but remember you are still picking evil.

    6
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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Dec 8th 2012, 11:52 AM

    @dermot

    So Whats your alternate not to vote ??

    3
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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Dec 8th 2012, 11:53 AM

    *alternative

    1
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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 1:15 PM

    Ryan oneill; Well if you wont vote for any part with “F” in their name than that rules out all the main opposition parties, including Sinn Fein. :D

    2
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    Mute Stephen_Lynch
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    Dec 8th 2012, 2:32 PM

    Steven. I’d say that it is a safe bet that if we went through your family tree that we would find lots of Landlord agents and informers over the centuries.

    You didn’t lick it up off the stones, that is for sure.

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    Mute Enda Curtin
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    Dec 8th 2012, 4:42 PM

    Steven/Jay:

    http://directdemocracyireland.ie/mission-statement/

    Before the red thumbs rain on my reply here, at least take the time to read through it first.
    There’s always an alternative.

    3
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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Dec 8th 2012, 5:27 PM

    Thats not really an alternative to be honest its more of the same just like ula

    1
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    Mute David Higgins
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:24 AM

    All bar one isn’t good enough from Sinn Féin. For all we know that €800m figure is pulled out of the sky. Do they really think they can tax assets to that degree and not have major impacts on the economy? Same old Shinnernomics!

    18
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    Mute seamus mcdermott
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    Dec 8th 2012, 11:39 AM

    Clearly, sir, you are a financial genius.

    7
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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 1:11 PM

    David. In all fairness, did you expect anything different from the Shinners? Its always been pie in the sky economics! I find it funny that they didn’t get their wealth tax proposal costed, considering they harp on enough about how its the solution to all our economic woes.

    Fianna Fail can’t give economic advise considering they failed economics and the rest of them just sit back and moan about anything and everything. The fury in the Dail when it was announced their expenses and leaders allowance were taking a hit – and it was a fecking symbolic hit at that because there could have been much larger chunks and reform of expenses and pay that was avoided.

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    Mute bryan heffernan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 10:27 AM

    will happily vote for fianna fail again rather than eamon and the puppeter joke enda and their lies.

    14
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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Dec 8th 2012, 12:52 PM

    I have no time for any of them they will all give out and cry about each other budget lets not forget one very important thing here before anyone I’ m saying without supporting any other party .FF were to taken up in looking after themselves rather the Country when we were going down the tubes so before anyone getting ready to put a mark under FF please remember

    2
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    Mute Stephen_Lynch
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    Dec 8th 2012, 2:38 PM

    Maybe you would but that is probably because there is something in it for you. What about the rest of the country, do you ever even stop to give a toss about the welfare of your country and its people. Is it all just “up FF and Screw Ireland” and shovel the tax payers cash in to your pocket as kick as you can.

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    Mute bryan heffernan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 2:43 PM

    how about enda takes a s*** in your hands and you clap for him, what happened to all his broken promises about what he was going to do with his first 100 days in office, lies to get the ppl of ireland to vote for them hes no better if not any worse than fianna fail there all the same, oh and stephen i never said i supported fianna fail so put that in your pipe and smoke it

    1
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    Mute Stephen_Lynch
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    Dec 8th 2012, 2:51 PM

    You said you would vote FF. If you are going around saying that kind of stuff you have to expect that the hard pressed decent Honest people working in this country are going to slap you right down.

    We have had enough of those dirty traitors to last 2 lives.

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    Mute bryan heffernan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 1:56 PM

    how about you take a long dip in the sewer and fetch my ethics for me when your down there stephen

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    Mute Stephen_Lynch
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    Dec 8th 2012, 2:27 PM

    The ethics and moral fibre of your average FF are quiet small and insignificant, that is a big ask to find them. How about like all yours before you, give you a shilling and tell you what to do.

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    Mute bryan heffernan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 3:31 PM

    shup up enda who asked ya :P

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Dec 8th 2012, 5:30 PM

    Why would anyone get into a tissy over any of this lot? at the end of the day all of them are the same.

    1
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    Mute Dermot O'Reilly
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    Dec 12th 2012, 9:20 PM

    FF. created the problem. Why not start with a reduction in FF and all TDs pensions- Cowen Ahern Reynolds McCreevy etc
    No pension should be funded by Irish Taxpayers until a TD reaches 66 years of age. Let’s have a level playing pitch? Lead by example.
    In addition all bankers pensions should be reduced.
    Why does FF not recommend a reversal of Benchmarking?
    let’s have some honesty in politics!!!

    1
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    Mute Enda Curtin
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    Dec 8th 2012, 3:18 PM

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah………….

    Yeah whatever, Michael. Just as long as the sheeple give ye another chance at the next election to do the same thing, yeah?

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    Mute Gavin K
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    Dec 8th 2012, 9:13 AM

    Blah

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 1:13 PM

    *waves fist in the air*

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    Mute bryan heffernan
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    Dec 8th 2012, 3:08 PM

    yes i did i would would vote anyone other than enda he is a liar aswell, i am a hard working person on a small income i pay my taxes so dont tar me with that brush

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    Mute Enda Curtin
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    Dec 8th 2012, 4:33 PM

    You just don’t get it, do you Bryan? FF, FG, Labour, etc; they are all one and the same!!!
    I’ve said it in other posts and I’ll say it again:
    FF are currently behaving just like FG/Lab were before the last election; and FG/Lab are currently behaving just like FF/Greens were before the last election! Does that not make sense to you at all??!!
    Quit lying to yourself, because the only person you’re fooling at the end of the day is YOU.

    1
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