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What Stigma? Short doc looks at Ireland's mental health

Mental health experts talk opendly and eloquently about Ireland’s experiences.

“THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS we’re not having that we should be having.”

There is a fear of it. You can’t see it, like a broken arm, and therefore you’re not really quite sure how it works or what it means.

“People think that if you talk about depression, you’re somehow not like them…they think that maybe you’ll go off the handle or you shouldn’t be left alone with sharp knives.”

I think it is a learned behaviour. As you’re growing up and people around you tell you, ‘Keep that quiet, don’t discuss that openly, it could impact your job prospects so be careful to hold the story of any mental health difficulty that you have close to your heart and don’t speak about it’.

“I have no idea why this happened. I have no idea why my son took his own life.”

[You hear things like] they’ve got a son with mental health problem, or a daughter with issues or suffers with her nerves. Ah, shut up. That is 1960s Ireland crap. If we’re not mindful of this stuff, we’re going to run into massive problems.

The above is a selection of the statements made in a new documentary looking at Ireland’s mental health, focussing on the stigma attached to associated issues.

Filmmaker and journalism student James Keating embarked on the project for college but collected wisdom from a number of figures from Ireland’s mental health organisations, including many people who have spoken openly and eloquently about their own experiences of depression and suicide.

WATCH:

The film, which was initially made by James Keating as part of a college project, has been shown at Clones Film Festival and the London Underground Festival.

See more from James Keating here>

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29 Comments
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    Mute Smiley
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    Jan 7th 2013, 9:01 AM

    There is only one way to overcome the stigma in Ireland and that is to talk about mental health. Not to do so smells of such superstitious tripe as fear of witches with black cats. Oh, and a decent advertising campaign like New Zealand’s one featuring John Kirwan et al wouldn’t go amiss.

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    Mute Jeff Conroy
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    Jan 7th 2013, 10:21 AM

    I will be featuring on RTE’s Operation Transformation over the coming weeks where I discuss my experience with depression in a bid to break down the stigma. I openly discuss my time spent in hospital and my lowest points. It was hard to admit knowing it will be aired to 500000 people but I’m sick of the ignorance and stigma attached to an otherwise ordinary and common illness.

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    Mute Goldie Locks
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    Jan 7th 2013, 10:42 AM

    Kudos Jeff, something like this (your openness & courage) is badly needed in this country. Get people talking, perhaps with the aid of a road-safety-type media campaign.
    And well done to James Keating for an excellent film.
    More exposure to Mad Pride too please!!!

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    Mute Damien Flinter
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    Jan 7th 2013, 11:08 AM

    I used to see it as an ‘illness’ myself once…until after much milage and introspection with a selection of self-prescribed psychotropic substances I came to the conclusion it was (and is) a symptom of mental health in an extremely dysfunctional world.

    It is the rictus-grinning mercenary ‘have a nice day’ brigade need awakening to their psychological imbalance.

    Life is a cycle, it moves in wave form…when it flatlines you need attention.
    Once I worked that out I was enabled to get out of the troughs and gradually learned to anticipate and navigate.
    But I see to many people still convinced they are sick, and medicated into that conviction.

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Jan 7th 2013, 12:38 PM

    @Damien I agree. I had the misfortune of taking “anti-depressants”/an SSRI for panic attacks on and off between 2005 and 2008. Panic attacks are not a mental illness but lifestyle changes are needed if they occur. I have Dr. Aine Tubridy’s book “When Panic Attacks” and it came with a CD.

    But in 2008, while on “anti-depressants” I went on to develop the more serious condition of “Bipolar disorder” which was triggered by the medication. I was then locked away in a hospital and given powerful medication for 3 years until one day I became “enlightened” and decided I did not need these drugs (except very occasionally at the moment). I was sleeping half the day on them anyway and going around in a prescription drug haze [Never stop or change medication without consulting a good doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]

    So I have had 4.5 years of stigma, discrimination and misinformation. I found the Christmas period particularly bad. I spent Christmas day alone, which in some way was quite liberating,. Before Christmas, because I had been overdoing it, my “Bipolar” was quite active. So people started to shun me and give out to me. The typical Irish family response seems to be to give out to the person. As if there symptoms was all their fault! But at the same time I was hyper aware of people around me and how they were reacting to me. I felt unwanted and misunderstood. But I have built up a certain amount of resilience, particularly in 2012 as I was active in http://www.criticalvoicesnetwork.com and attending Amnesty conferences etc.

    So the goal for 2013 is to relax as much as possible and finally nip this pharma induced condition in the bud. I do not see the Depression side as an illness. If my mood goes down there is usually a reason for it. I believe in talk therapy, keeping a journal, meditation, exercise, Yoga, hydration, avoiding/moderate drinking, good diet/nutrition, keep sugar to a minimum. I also know that SUPPORT from others is important but for me it can be severely lacking at times. I have a few good friends but they live in various locations across Ireland. HOPE is also important. Today I am as “normal” as anyone else. I feel that I will eventually RECOVER from this. Damage has been done by “anti-depressants”. These drugs can also lead to suicide in some people or violence. Going on the drugs and coming off are particularly dangerous times.

    While some people may have taken these drugs and feel that they have helped them, I do not believe in messing around with brain chemistry. The brain is a complex organ that is not very well understood. Plus on a holistic level, the rest of the body is also involved in our mental/physical health, which are very much interlinked.

    On Saturday I relaxed and watched the movie “All that Heaven Allows” with Rock Hudson and Jane Wyman (1955). There is a line in it where Jane Wyman goes to the doctor and he says “Do you expect me to give you a prescription to cure life?”. While there are some tranquilizers that can help people short term, in a crisis for a few days, there is no such prescription that will cure life’s emotional problems, which may have stemmed from trauma and distress in a person’s past that was not properly dealt with at the time. For me the sudden death of my maternal grandmother at the age of 11 and the fact that no one talked about it was one of those traumas.

    So it will require daily work. I have liked Thich Nhat Hanh on Facebook and yesterday was listening to his teachings: http://www.facebook.com/thichnhathanh. He is a Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk, teacher, author, poet and peace activist. You would never guess that he is 86 and full of wisdom. So “Peace of Mind” is something I need to aim for and Balance in life. I sometimes attend a RIgpa meditation centre. And I have learned from a book that I read recently that we are always looking outside ourselves for “happiness” but it lies within. If we can just tap into it. The book is called “The Divine Spark – a Miracle in Human Transformation”: It was launched in Galway recently by Professor Ivor Browne and is by a woman from Galway. http://www.thedivinesparkproject.com/

    As for Ivor Browne, who is heading towards 84, meeting him nearly a year ago was a turning point in my life. He is a Consultant Psychiatrist, but unlike most mainstream Psychiatrists who basically just prescribe drugs, he is also a trained Psychotherapist, with nearly 60 years experience as a doctor. So spending an hour with him was a turning point for me. As long as I can follow his advice. He is awesome. Only 10% of Consultant Psychiatrists are trained in Psychotherapy! (according to the great doctor Dr. Michael Corry. Rest in Peace).

    So if Consultant Psychiatrists could go train as therapists and stop judging, labeling and drugging people that would be a starting point! And also families need more education in “mental health”. But not from places that may be funded by pharmaceuticals, as then they will be trained in the mantra “Take your medication”. There is a better way ~ Slí Eile.

    12
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    Mute Damien Flinter
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    Jan 7th 2013, 1:38 PM

    More power to yer cortex, Aine. Well written.

    Get a copy of Ivor’s ‘Music and Madness’ if you haven’t already. Great man.

    I studied psychology academicaly for 4 years, back in ’70s, to get a handle on their jargon.
    They are quite a neurotic tribe of priests. Like economists, they like to pretend to being ‘scientists. And they do NOT like their authority questioned, just another priesthood that springs to mind as culpable for much of our collective and individual psychological heritage of pathology.

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Jan 7th 2013, 1:47 PM

    I’m lucky that I still have a cortex :) Thank God for neuroplasticity, as the brain can get fairly dumbed down on medication.

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    Mute Geraldine Kelly
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    Jan 23rd 2013, 10:49 AM

    Hi Jeff , watched on Operation Transformation last night . You must be so proud as it was truly inspirational . You have changed many lives so I just want to say thanks . We all know of the fear in Ireland , about speaking of mental health . It breaks my heart to hear of suicide so much now , and I agree with you about the link between exercise and improving our mental health, as it has worked for me . Many people watched the show and have changed how they feel now ,and they may try to connect with someone now for help , thanks to you . Thanks again for your courage and wish I you well in the future .

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    Mute Caroline Phelan
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    Jan 7th 2013, 10:08 AM

    When filling out a job application there is always a section regarding psychological health whilst assessing a candidates suitability for a position. Lets be really honest here the reality is that if a person puts down that they suffer from depression and another candidates does not; Who do you think will get the job?..sorry now i know its a disgrace but thats the reality maybe things are slowly beginning to change, i don’t know?? and hopefully they will overtime! However that’s why years ago people were told to “hush hush!” Reality is that depression can happen to anybody…so lets start the campaign to destigmatise depression :)

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    Mute Jo Hickey
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    Jan 7th 2013, 11:09 AM

    Well, should it be made illegal to have a section about psychological health on job applications?

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    Mute Seán O' Sullivan
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    Jan 28th 2013, 7:23 AM

    Good point Caroline. I’ve had times myself where I’ve considered filling that part out as honestly as to call out depression. But I can never seem to actually do this, especially given things as they are. Depression definitely is an illness though, a poison that gets into the bones. No one is immune

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    Mute Geoff Tracey
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    Jan 7th 2013, 9:43 AM

    Initiatives like FIRST FORTNIGHT, Ireland’s mental health arts festival, is a great way to help break this stigma. It’s running all over Dublin until January 12th. http://www.firstfortnight.ie

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    Mute Frank2521
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    Jan 7th 2013, 9:25 AM

    Having looked at the programme on RTE about our mental hospitals part 1 I think the residue of shame etc around mental illness is still going to be with us for a few more generations. When you consider a past minister for health sued for libel and received over €300,000 for being labelled an alcoholic (wrongly ) yet felt it was such a stigma around her mech she sued for half a million. That example by a minister was surely wrong when it was her job to help remove labels.

    29
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    Mute Damien Flinter
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    Jan 7th 2013, 11:19 AM

    Does not sound like a very healthy reaction for a Minister for Health to succumb to.

    Perhaps her monetary addiction needed a little counselling. Its a common enough fixation, especially among the politically inclined.

    They tend to be trend-followers and herd-thinkers rather than psychologically mature and healthy enough to provide us with leadership.
    Unfortunately.

    8
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    Mute Anthony Hughes
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    Jan 7th 2013, 10:33 AM

    Well done James and all involved; a refreshing view of the reality of mental health.

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    Mute Jamie Moore
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    Jan 7th 2013, 10:01 AM

    A video made by a group of 12-18 year olds about Mental Health:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cex_82ZZkTs

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Jan 7th 2013, 12:45 PM

    #Stigma: I had the misfortune of taking “anti-depressants”/an SSRI for panic attacks on and off between 2005 and 2008. Panic attacks are not a mental illness but lifestyle changes are needed if they occur. I have Dr. Aine Tubridy’s book “When Panic Attacks” and it came with a CD.

    But in 2008, while on “anti-depressants” I went on to develop the more serious condition of “Bipolar disorder” which was triggered by the medication. I was then locked away in a hospital and given powerful medication for 3 years until one day I became “enlightened” and decided I did not need these drugs (except very occasionally at the moment). I was sleeping half the day on them anyway and going around in a prescription drug haze [Never stop or change medication without consulting a good doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]

    So I have had 4.5 years of stigma, discrimination and misinformation. I found the Christmas period particularly bad. I spent Christmas day alone, which in some way was quite liberating,. Before Christmas, because I had been overdoing it, my “Bipolar” was quite active. So people started to shun me and give out to me. The typical Irish family response seems to be to give out to the person. As if there symptoms was all their fault! But at the same time I was hyper aware of people around me and how they were reacting to me. I felt unwanted and misunderstood. But I have built up a certain amount of resilience, particularly in 2012 as I was active in http://www.criticalvoicesnetwork.com and attending Amnesty conferences etc.

    So the goal for 2013 is to relax as much as possible and finally nip this “pharma induced condition” in the bud. I do not see the Depression side as an illness. If my mood goes down there is usually a reason for it. I believe in talk therapy, keeping a journal, meditation, exercise, Yoga, hydration, avoiding/moderate drinking, good diet/nutrition, keep sugar to a minimum. I also know that SUPPORT from others is important but for me it can be severely lacking at times. I have a few good friends but they live in various locations across Ireland. HOPE is also important. Today I am as “normal” as anyone else. I feel that I will eventually RECOVER from this. Damage has been done by “anti-depressants”. These drugs can also lead to suicide in some people or violence. Going on the drugs and coming off are particularly dangerous times.

    While some people may have taken these drugs and feel that they have helped them, I do not believe in messing around with brain chemistry. The brain is a complex organ that is not very well understood. Plus on a holistic level, the rest of the body is also involved in our mental/physical health, which are very much interlinked.

    On Saturday I relaxed and watched the movie “All that Heaven Allows” with Rock Hudson and Jane Wyman (1955). There is a line in it where Jane Wyman goes to the doctor and he says “Do you expect me to give you a prescription to cure life?”. While there are some tranquilizers that can help people short term, in a crisis for a few days, there is no such prescription that will cure life’s emotional problems, which may have stemmed from trauma and distress in a person’s past that was not properly dealt with at the time. For me the sudden death of my maternal grandmother at the age of 11 and the fact that no one talked about it was one of those traumas.

    So it will require daily work. I have liked Thich Nhat Hanh on Facebook and yesterday was listening to his teachings: http://www.facebook.com/thichnhathanh. He is a Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk, teacher, author, poet and peace activist. You would never guess that he is 86 and full of wisdom. So “Peace of Mind” is something I need to aim for and Balance in life. I sometimes attend a RIgpa meditation centre. And I have learned from a book that I read recently that we are always looking outside ourselves for “happiness” but it lies within. If we can just tap into it. The book is called “The Divine Spark – a Miracle in Human Transformation”: It was launched in Galway recently by Professor Ivor Browne and is by a woman from Galway called Claire Gormley.

    As for Ivor Browne, who is heading towards 84, meeting him nearly a year ago was a turning point in my life. He is a Consultant Psychiatrist, but unlike most mainstream Psychiatrists who basically just prescribe drugs, he is also a trained Psychotherapist, with nearly 60 years experience as a doctor. So spending an hour with him was a turning point for me. As long as I can follow his advice. He is awesome. Only 10% of Consultant Psychiatrists are trained in Psychotherapy! (according to the great doctor Dr. Michael Corry. Rest in Peace).

    So if Consultant Psychiatrists could go train as therapists and stop judging, labeling and drugging people that would be a starting point! And also families need more education in mental health. But not from places that may be funded by pharmaceuticals, as then they will be trained in the mantra “Take your medication”. There is a better way ~ Slí Eile.

    9
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    Mute Caroline Phelan
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    Jan 7th 2013, 11:17 AM

    @ Jo Hickey: No it’s part of our health. Just making the point that unfortunately when people are applying for jobs this is often an area that is stigmatised by potential employers.

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    Mute Damien Flinter
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    Jan 7th 2013, 11:38 AM

    Its part of the generalised ignorance and fear, Caroline; a sign of our collective lack of psychological health in a culture that reacts to close scrutiny with denial and evasion.
    Its so rampant it is the normality. The lie is that being ‘normal’ necesarily means you are at peak mental health.
    But most of us are too lazy to question such received ‘wisdom’. There are multiple instinctive defence mechanisms.

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    Mute Denise DeeHitcher O' Doherty
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    Jan 7th 2013, 5:07 PM

    wow!! What insightful and refreshingly honest comments. As someone who has been trapped in the metal health system since 2005, I felt I’d like to weigh in here. What has constantly bothered me the most since I was assigned my psychiatrist in 2005 is how very little I see of the lady herself. Most times I am in the clinic, I am introduced to a new doctor, a trainee doctor and often times someone younger than me!!! Then they skim your notes and ask bollox questions like “so any thoughts of harming yourself? Hearing any voices?” My answer (in my head at least) NOOOOOO God damn you!!! Read my notes!!! I am bipolar, not schizophrenic – not that there’s anything wrong with that – it just annoys me that they have this rigid system in place!! And the whole reason I was diagnosed as being bipolar??? Well, I went from being suicidal,withdrawn and wearing pjs in hospital to becoming a motor mouth, flamboyant dresser, fast thinker at the clinic some months later. So some community nurse I was introduced to decided to check his text book and sure enough, delightfully so for him my ‘symptoms’ matched up!!! 10 POINTS TO GRIFFINDOR :) bloody eejit!!! Also last point in my ridiculous rant is this…..I was suicidal again last year and ended up in the hospital under the same care of said doctors…who mind you, were quick to point out “we told you so” as in, they had warned me of a relapse when I quit my meds without their approval. One of my major symptoms of having bipolar depression is this utter emptiness which takes months to clear, I said to my doctor one day that I was still empty and worried that it would never lift…..to which she replied ” sure I’d love to feel that way sometimes”!!!!!

    I ask you…..who is really crazy ?????

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    Mute Jone Kelleher
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    Jan 7th 2013, 6:17 PM

    Well said Denise. Very true that all the talk about stigma and the happy-clappies should not deflect us from the reality that standards of psychiatric care are abysmal in Ireland.

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    Mute Jone Kelleher
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    Jan 7th 2013, 6:20 PM

    Can I add to the above that when I write standards I’m not talking about resources etc. I’m talking about standards of professionalism and training.

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Jan 7th 2013, 7:40 PM

    I walked away from my Psychiatrist almost 1 year ago. I had enough of the madness! I had spent Christmas 2011 “really depressed” (won’t go into detail) and at my appointment in January 2012 the Psychiatrist started to asked about my my “highs”. So I realised he was not even listening or at least not asking the right questions!

    He did refer me to a low cost counseling service. But that was because I requested it! I have connected to lots of other people throughout the year in http://www.criticalvoicesnetwork.com (CVNI). The aim of that group is to bring about change in our ‘mental health system’. I attended 2 Amnesty conferences. One on Capacity Law in April and a Mental Health Law Reform conference in NUI Galway. And the last CVNI conference was in UCC in November. About 400 people had registered for it. It was over 2 days and excellent.

    [Never stop or change medication without consulting a good doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]. Any change needs to be done in a slow and controlled process. I spent 1 month in hospital thinking I had a complete breakdown. It turned out that what I was going through was withdrawal, from stopping medication “cold turkey”. Not that anyone would mention the word WITHDRAWAL at the time! They would prefer me to think that I had gone mad! Prof Ivor Browne was the first to point that out, when I went to him privately 3.5 years later. I suppose better late than never. So my last appointment with a Consultant Psychiatrist was with Ivor Browne. He is nearly 84 and is a trained Psychotherapist. So he asks all the right questions, is very methodical and is basically AWESOME to watch in action. He told me to go find a man for myself. That will solve all my problems. Lol :) God help the man. On a serious note he is the best doctor in his field. And did his Masters in Harvard.

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    Mute Ann Howgego
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    Jan 7th 2013, 12:21 PM

    Talking about mental health openly and honestly is so important. Providing a safe and comfortable space to start the conversation is vital. Actually there is a free conference coming up on 28th January which plans to give individuals and organisations the opportunity to chat about stigma. Here is the link if anyone is interested. http://www.bitc.ie/2012/12/change-conference-28th-january/

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    Mute Denise DeeHitcher O' Doherty
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    Jan 7th 2013, 6:35 PM

    I read all the comments before I watched the video itself. It’s a well put together piece. I wouldn’t mind attempting something like that myself…if I knew how to make a film. Instead I think I would just write. It definitely needs to be exposed – the sheer unprofessionalism of these ‘experts’!!
    I was literally forced to go to a specific day hospital when I left the psyche unit. I was asking my doctor about counsellors and even hypnotherapy. But instead of helping me, she just told me that this place was the only one she would recommend. Is it all just a money making system?? Yes! It has to be! The word care does not exist in these peoples’ vocabularies. All they know is medication and loose terms which may or may not define you.
    That is one of the worst points on having a mental illness in my opinion….this definition. Maybe I am not bipolar. I know I have suffered severe depression and been suicidal. And then I have flown high after these periods. I don’t hear voices or hallucinate but that’s not to say I don’t have schizophrenia! Who trains these people? The majority of psychiatrists are cold, calculating and most often and sadly lacking in time to genuinely hear you. I always wanted to study psychology but I didn’t have the points to do so!! I may not be intellectually adequate for studying so but yet I know I have an emotional awareness that would qualify me above and beyond some of these guys.

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Jan 7th 2013, 7:23 PM

    This is a comment that I left before about “Bipolar”/Manic Depression (which can include Depression and then periods of elation, over activity and irritability. Everyone is different):

    a) learn as much as you can about this condition (but not necessarily from the medical model perspective ie drugs)
    b) become self-aware, as sometimes awareness is lost during an “episode” eg with money
    c) not to be seduced by the “high”
    d) avoid alcohol or street drugs. Alcohol is like adding fuel to the fire
    e) learning about WRAP (Wellness Recover Action Plan) and have a plan. 4 parts to this presentation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6R2izza9lQ
    f) develop self confidence and a sense of Self (see Dr Terry Lynch’s book Selfhood with exercises)
    g) have a support network
    h) work on mental health and relaxation daily eg daily meditation
    http://www.trainyourbrainmeditation.com/Starting_a_meditation_practice.html
    i) watch diet and sugar intake
    j) Take a good quality multi-vitamin (without Copper)
    k) drink enough water
    l) stay hopeful for RECOVERY

    [Never stop or change medication without consulting a (good) doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]

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    Mute Jone Kelleher
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    Jan 7th 2013, 5:29 PM

    Great to hear Kathleen Lynch complaining about the mental illness services. I hope the Minister in charge of this area is listening. Oh, wait….
    Have to say i expected to hate the vid but it wasn’t as bad as I’d feared I’ve said it before though; we need to stop swallowing all the experts tell us about the importance of “mental health”. it’s a woolly concept on which anyone can claim to be an expert (as do several people on the video). At least the woman from Amnesty had the modesty and accuarcy to preface her opinions with “I think, and this is proabably a personal view.”

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    Mute Maria
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    Jan 7th 2013, 1:45 PM

    There are a wide spectrum of mental health disorders, some easier to talk about than others. Try talking openly about it when someone has completely lost their grip on reality…

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Jan 7th 2013, 1:55 PM

    That is assuming the person has “completely lost their grip on reality”. They may be more in tune with what is going on around them than you think. And the favourite line of mental health professionals is that the person has “lost insight”. Maybe those professionals need to take a closer look at how they have been trained to approach the situation. I have received my records under Freedom of Information, from my time in a backward hospital, and could not believe some of the stuff that I read. Some of which was untrue! Not to mention the basic human rights abuses and inability to work within the guidelines of the Mental Health Commission. Well at least the Mental Health Act 2001 is under review!

    At the time, family members were not good people to have around. What was needed was an independent person who could show some empathy and understanding eg a mental health advocate. And there are some good doctors out there who try to understand eg Dr Terry Lynch in Limerick. I went to one of his talks with Shine last year. And I have his two books “Beyond Prozac” and “Selfhood”. Lots of people with mental health difficulties have a low sense of self and that needs to be worked on. The book has lots of exercises and I must get back to it again.

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