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The Daily PollA LEAKED DRAFT document by the European Commission has revealed that the Irish government is concerned that people are going to boycott paying water changes when they are introduced next year.
With many refusing to pay the household charge when it was first introduced, how likely is it that we will see a repeat of this again?
With water charges just one year away, we ask:
Do you think that the water charge will be largely boycotted?
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70% of donegal , cavan, monaghan and louth wont pay it.
89% of south dublin will pay, having the highest compliance rate of any region.
Youll have a protest at the dail by the people before profit movement the first week, the second week the ULA and possibly sinn feinn will join in. The third week the message will change and the anti flouride people will be out so everyone will dismiss it and stop paying attention.
6 months in to water charging, some old woman somewhere rural will be accidentally cut off, this will make the front page of every tabloid and somebody from the left will bring it up in the dail telling some labour party member to be ashamed of themselves.
As someone who lives in one of the counties you mentioned above its not so much a question of will I/won’t I pay it, its more a question of can I/ can’t pay it? The answer, as things stand at the moment, is no. I don’t drink, smoke or gamble, live an extravagant lifestyle etc. but paying what will start out at, on average €370 per year, is simple beyond my current means.
I heard a UK news report within the past couple of weeks lamenting the fact that a certain percentage of people in the UK couldn’t afford a foreign holiday within the past 3 years. Err, 3 years? Its been 1996 for us, and even then it was to the UK, we’ve never had a foreign holiday and I’m damn sure we’re not much different than other folks.
Do you think they put less fluoride in Donegal and Louths water?
I think a lot of people are like you , I know my parents are the same, no fancy luxuries lives within their means had a few weekends in cork. From what I can see Ireland is a really divided nation, there are some vile nasty people. Are they living in such a bubble still they don’t realise there are 100s of people living in POVERTY. These people are people exactly like them used to be working having a nice lifestyle. All these people do is show people what are taut of them, THESE PEOPLE HAVE THE SAME VIEWS THE GOVERNMENT HAS, they don’t care about the lives they have affected just keep cutting keep eu happy and we can keep our big wages !! CAN’T PAY WON’T PAY , even if I could pay I wouldn’t in solidarity with people who are suffering !
Julie, you say you won’t pay in solidarity with the poor. And when the gov cuts basic social welfare payments because people won’t pay other taxes will you jump up and down at the injustice of it all?
@oreilly. Julie has a very good moral stance by not paying for the reasons she gave.
Your just being a sheep. You must have OD’d on fluoride. Or you work in the water division of the council.
Why can’t I ? I don’t see a reason I can’t ! Unfair taxes when we get nothing in return for paying them only people being pushed further into poverty and suffering.
Phil, moral stance won’t pay the bills. We could all take moral stances and the poor would be much worse off. As would all of us as taxes get raised and SW spending cut. The thing about moral stands is you must be able to afford them.
Sheep. What a lame throw back you all use. You keep sitting on your hands or walking the moral high ground. The rest of us will get on with recovery…
1 recovery is not happening small things to make people think we are but we are NOT , I don’t listen to Enda school teacher I listen to economists ! 2 so you can only have morals if you can afford them so their right to a decent standard of life has been taken away and now you want to tell them they can’t have morals cuz the country is in a recession! People seem to have the rose tinted classes on when it comes to what state this country is in! Well the government seem to do what the like and ye follow and comply like obedient little school kids no matter how people suffer! Even if it not I suffering directly YOU SHOULD STILL CARE
Julie, your empathy for those less well off is lovely. But it won’t improve their lot. Nor will hiding behind their plight to avoid paying your own taxes. Those who genuinely can’t afford to pay have appeal mechanisms. Step up to the plate Julie. Join the hard working majority…
Do you know what the appeal mechanism is pay more later so that’s only a load of bull, as for me joining the hard working I have worked very hat in college for the last 4 years and I am now working hard now as a bartender as it is the only job I could get and I pay taxes, you don’t know my personal circumstances so you can’t judge me. But I will tell ya they are not great just like alot more friends I have ,their families in same position!
A “leaked” report on water charges eh?
Water we supposed to do??
H2O no not another water pun! Sorry but I saw these and just had to tap in. They are really flowing this morning.
Julie, “nothing in return”, really?
Does clean water not flow out of your tap? Where do you think it comes from? The water fairy maybe.
The Government think it will be boycotted but truth be known most Irish people dont that is another measure of how much of an “easy ryde” they have in Eire.Bottoms up lads and lassies.
No Justin it doesn’t at all , fluoride and lime nope no clean water for me ! Bottled water from shop can’t even drink the water!
Justin making out everyone believes in fairys because you do is about as simple minded as most of your posts.
Well lime going to protest this as far as possible, and if tooth be told they need a splash of reality
Jack
You really don’t want to annoy the fairies, they get really cross if you do.
I don’t mind paying for it but my problem is our water is disgusting as it is in many parts of the country. Dishwashers and washing machines last half the time then they would if o was living in Dublin where the water is not harsh. its not drinkable so we pay already for bottled drinking water. If they have Water charges then we should have usable water in all parts of the country.
Chicken and egg argument; without the revenue from water charges it is not possible to upgrade the existing system.
Your right I live in an area with high lime content in the water and it destroys plumbing and appliances so why should I pay for sub standard water, what happens when the pipes rupture during a big freeze again who pays for that waste of water.
Then why should we pay the same as the people who have a proper running system. Until we have proper drinkable water then our water charges should be lower then the areas that have water. Also my grandad said that years ago they tried to bring in water charges and there were mass protests so it was agreed that people pay for it through their tax at income ie prsi. So we are actually already paying for water through our tax!
Most of Dublins water supply is disgraceful, the lime in it is overwhelming that you have to boil it to use it of buy bottled water. Just cause its the capital dont be fooled into thinking we have a proper supply
Well said. On my third dishwasher in 9 years, 2nd machine, have ruined sinks, taps etc all because of the dirty lime water and want us to pay for this!
@nikolas money was thrown at this for years and nothing done so your comment is pointless. They are only doing stuff to the local pipes round my way since the charges have been mooted. If it was done years ago maybe people wouldn’t be up in arms over it. I had no water for 2 weeks when the freeze hit and buy a load of bottled water as the water is undrinkable
Aaron I would imagine it is. I lived in south Dublin for over 7 years and the water wasn’t in anyway bad so I was just mentioning Dublin as an example based on my experience. It just annoys me that our water is in no way drinkable and I’ve had to go to the doctor on many occasions to get antibiotic cream as the water has left my skin in a really bad condition. Washing machines, dishwashers, electric showers have lasted on average 2 years. It’s not fair that we have to pay for that water. We already pay for the consequences. I’ve paid everything so far, I’ve paid road tax when most of my counties roads are now un drivable and the outcome of that is my car costs extra to fix regularly. I’ve taken a reduction in pay due to tax hikes. We’ve put up with complete sh*te for years. I’m extremely apprehensive for paying more for this for years to come without an improvement.
I completely agree with you, I wasnt attacking you I was just saying the water here is sh*te too, our dishwasher is on the blink at the moment and washing machine was only replaced last year, the amount of limescale in them when taken apart was unbelievable and that was even using a limescale treatment every couple of weeks. I just wanted to point out that we live in Dublin but on the same boat as the rest of the country regarding our 100 year old water system
Aaron hope my rant didn’t look like I was against you! I wasn’t attacking you either. Just so sick of getting crap and having to pay for it! (Rant over!!!)
@ Red Army I’m not saying that they are implementing change, but the “chicken and egg” argument will be used against anyone who refuses to pay because of the current quality of service.
@Nikolas, If you were buying a car, you wouldn’t be expected to pay up front for a broken down banger on the proviso that once the dealership has your money, only *then* would they’ll fix it and make it roadworthy.
So why should I pay for a substandard, disgusting tasting, water system in the (vain) hope that it might become drinkable?
Nikolas Koehler previously pretended he’s German only to be exposed as a native Blueshirt supporter. lol.
The same free-loading 20% that didn’t pay their Household charge by the looks of things..
We’re not all free loaders, some simply haven’t got it!
I’m no free loader. I voted Yes because I think it will be largely boycotted not because I disagree with it or will boycott it myself. I agree with water metering and I will pay my water charges. But I voted yes because I have seen a propensity among the Irish to want everything, but to pay for nothing.
Arseh&/e some simply have not got it food and luxuries like that are more important.the nastiest stupidest comment i have ever read shame on you
When did it become ok to just not pay taxes? Most of the people who didn’t pay the household charge were nothing more than bloody freeloaders, the real shame is they make the people who truly cannot afford to pay look just as bad
Those who cannot pay it, as deferred from those who choose not to pay it, should and probably will be able to apply for exemption. There already is water charges in Ireland, but only for companies, not for private users. Companies rightly think of this as unfair and another hurdle to competitiveness.
See above.
Another so called “tax/charge” that will go directly to paying the gambling debts of corrupt/criminal elites.
Corrupt/criminal elites that our government insist on harboring and rewarding (handsomely with taxpayer money).
20%? FG.
Flute..
Freeloaders? Really? Are these the same free loaders who can’t afford to feed their kids, heat their homes or have a decent standard of living! Some of us are taxed to the brink of poverty and some of us are unemployed with a mortgage and a family? Are we all freeloaders? Or have we had enough?
I did not pay the house hold charge as I do not recieve any of the services the local authority provide to others.
I live in the country with no local authority water drainage public lighting no broadband council do not even clear snow from my roadway local farmer had to do that. The local town is so far away we need 2 cars. Local authority even closed the still functioning dump 1km from my house, by that I mean the council still dumps there themself but will not allow others dump there.
As far as I am concerned charging people for services and not providing those services is FRAUD and until the Supreme Court orders me to accept that Hr. Phill can take a long walk off a short plank.
Provide the service and I will pay do not provide the service do not expect me to pay.
@Patrice: You are the embodiment of what is fundamentally wrong with Irish society
Chill, apply for exemption, deferral. What’s the problem? If you don’t qualify for either then yes, you are freeloading while your neighbour pays your way…
Culm, you’re missing the point. It’s paying for your county council and the services it provides. Whether you use those services is irrelevant. When you drive into town do you use the roads? Do your county councillors not get paid? Do you have your own private fire service? If you want more services you could always move into town, but I suspect that you’d rather have the peace, quiet, solitude and view of the countryside that you have now.
Well o’reilly for your information, I’m not a ‘freeloader’ and in response to my neighbour paying it I’m afraid that won’t happen as he’s living I’m same size house as me on his Todd and receiving rent allowance ( which I’m paying for) I was standing up for people. Who can apply all they want for an exception but in very few cases will receive it or do you have a problem with me sticking up for my fellow citizen. Off you go into the sunset on your high horse.
Chilli, you asked the question…
@Culm it’s my view that you are wrong to think that some must pay for a service they do not receive, many of you here wonder why you should pay and support either, single parent families, social welfare recipients, child benefit payments (because you have none) all of which you call “freeloaders” if I used your mantra then it is your “duty” irrespectively to support this segment of society & those payments like it or not, but many of you who work 40hrs + a week have an a eversion in doing so & think it should stop. ALL of this is fundamentally wrong, we ALL think we should or shouldn’t pay for others or services, services which were never free to start with & now need to be paid for again: double taxation. As a society we thrive on division & bigotry towards each other. I have not paid the household charge & WILL not, unlike some it’s not that I can’t afford it but because it goes against my very beliefs & principals, simple. I REFUSE to become a tenant in my own home, I REFUSE to become a cerf to an elected government who do NOT have the mandate to introduce such penalties on ordinary people because the reasons they are introducing them are illegal and fundamentally wrong. What we tend to forget is that the water charge has already been introduced to our paypack years ago but we “forgot” it, yes we ALREADY pay for our water. Household charges were also introduced years ago & spread over 52 weeks of the year but we “forgot” about it, they became just taxes for the sake of.
If more of us had not paid we would not be paying a property charge now, but I suppose you are happy to have your money thrown to the banks and bond holders, because that’s where it is going.
Muppet!
The only freeloaders in this corrupt country are bankers and their political go-fors.
Freeloaders? When this charge is being introduced to assist in the payment of a illegal gambling debt between two private entities? Get a grip you tool.
Robin – this has little to do with “public services”. It has all to do with corruption and the payment of an illegal gambling debt.
Honest question? Does any poster here sincerely think that the revenues from the water charges will be spent only on funding the provision of water?
In short Peter NO !
Thanks Not. That is my view as well but I await one post to say that it will be so confined. There are supporters for the water charge expressing their views and calling opponents as essentially scrounges, when they can’t afford to pay. What do they say on this issue of tax leakage. If we are to be soaked, will it just be for water?
What does it matter?
No. Absolurtely not
So the government are going to charge us a few hundred euros a year on water charges well fcuk that ill be getting my water from CONCERN jus 2euro a month and theyl supply the whole village!
As someone who remembers the last anti-water charges campaign very well, all I can say is they are in for a fight on this issue, ( they left off water charges in Dublin until last in 1994 each year more and more people refused to pay the water charges until they were abolished in 1996.
The planned water company is only a step in the process of privatising Irelands water supplies/water services-(Step 1) create a new water company, (Step 2) transfer all water services to the new water company- (Step 3) make the new company as profitable as possible- (Step 4) once Irish Water is profitable sell off Irish Water as part of the sale of state assets and privatise all water supplies/water services-I know some people might say ah sure none of the above will ever happen-I say to people check out the IMFs record on insisting on water privatization in countries they go into-privatization of water will be the future in Ireland if people don,t organise and resist the water charges.
Scary thing from an earlier journal story is that it’s clear they haven’t even worked out a business plan for ‘irish water’
@ Ryan Stewart, if there is not a properly worked out and detailed business plan, and I have no reason to doubt you, then this is appalling and reckless government mismanagement.
@Peter.. Quelle surprise..
Giving all the power to big corporations and we will suffer ! Who will be in control of our water supply when they sell off these assets !
They cant cut a water supply for non payment.
Says who? I was told by the council to pay my bill or get cut off
The water pressure can be lowered so the water is slowed to trickle but can’t be cut off
Can’t lower the pressure of each individual house.
Ive a metre outside my house. It turns all the water off completly
How can they turn they pressure down to one house alone? The only way it could be done is to close the valve outside your house but sure you would just go out and loosen it when the left.
And what, can’t ya turn it back on ??
Yes they can,your water comes from the”main” which has a device called a feral connected to it then you have a smaller pipe that brings the water to the stopcock, the water pressure at the point of the feral can be reduced to a trickle,though this would be a very expensive procedure for the council to carry out.
Don’t all compression fittings have a feral? And what has that got to do with the flow? Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t a feral the ring that compresses onto a pipe so you can attach something onto it?
No james, the ring that your talking about is part of the compression fitting which stops the fitting from leaking, a feral is connected directly to the mains waterpipe underground,you would a mini digger to get to it,the feral can then adjusted to allow only a trickle of water through, though that is not the purpose of the feral.like i said earlier for the council to go through that procedure would be very expensive,probably about €1000
My biggest problem with water charges is the person who’s company is going to install the meters does not pay his taxes in this country. here’s a clue…..FG’s favourite business man
Does the household charge/property tax not cover these things already ?
i dont think ppl will boycott it, i just think many genuinely will not be able to afford it, incomes are being whittled down with taxes, and comapnies trying to stay viable, then loan interest increases, increases in road tax, increases in heating costs, icreases in grocery cost, increases in school costs, propetry taxes etc. Some people genuinely are just tapped out at this point and cannot afford to pay out anymore
Not being able to pay is not the same as refusing to pay. Those who can prove that they cannot pay will be able to apply for an exemption or a subsidy from the state.
They will be able to defer payment but they will add an interest to it not sure of the figure but this sums up out present government , rich people who can pay up front? Then person in poverty who can’t pay straight away gets extra charges! Unfair ROTTEN TO THE CORE GOVERNMENT
Like all taxes it will have to be paid.
Derek, I agree. My fer is that when people realise that it is a flat rate until meters are installed. Like , why are we [2 people] paying the same as that house of 6 people ? Peoples sense of fairness may be undermined. I assume that the scenario I put forward is what will happen. Very confusing to introduce the tax without meters.
Charging us for water. Next thing is to tax Arabs for having sand
I’ll pay the water charge when they remove the fluoride and meet European standards…..
If they take the fluoride out, I’m not paying.
You mean like how the household charge was going to be boycotted, but then about 90% of people paid it?
90%? FG.
Tool..
Yeah I kinda pulled a number out of my ass.
I haven’t paid the household charge, and I won’t be paying this one either but there were an awful lot who said they weren’t paying etc then did..
Ironic that south Dublin does have the highest compliance level, votes yes in every referendum, elects the same faces each time etc. They have the cash the rest of us don’t. But a direct tax on the wealthy instead of hammering the serfs…it just isn’t fair zzz
My daddy works for KPMG!!!
It’s depressing I live in South Dublin and am not loaded and it really does piss me off that I have a (can’t think of a word to describe him that won’t have this comment taken down) like Alan Shatter coming my area.
This government and the previous one managed to get money overnight for a banking system that has not been fined or prosecuted in any way. But yet are bailout buddies the eu/ecb/IMF insist on taxing the Irish people out of existence. This water tax is a tax on a basic necessity of life which should be supplemented by our bailed out friends the banks. They lost the money yet they are still the ones rolling in our hard earned pension funds and other funds and piggie banks that the previous government raided. Water charges first then privatization then what? water wars! As the resources of this planet are slowly running out the start of a scramble for the last of these started with this economic war which Ireland has lost now comes the land or in this case water grab by eventually private interests who are playing the long game as usual. So fcuk the water charge until they sort out the banking situation.
Personally, I am in agreement with the principle of a water charge for those who have a local authority mains water supply but the problem in Ireland is one of fairness of terms and proper implementation.
First, fix the existiting massive and pervasive leaking problem. Water is a finite resource and the amount of pipe leakage in Ireland is even worse than in the UK. There was no effort at all to upgrade and improve the network during the champagne days of the Celtic Tiger, which only a section of the population enjoyed.
Implement the metres first. How many of us would wish to pay a flat rate of charge for electricity? Make allowance not to penalise those with children or where there is a legitimate need for a higher water charge. I have no children or dependants but have no objection to paying disproportionately for those who have a legitimately higher water consumption but I will not pay for my neighbour to wash his car, water his garden, or have three showers a day.
Let the charge be ringfenced to pay only for the provision of water and to upgrade, maintain and protect the water network and not to cross subsidise other areas of central government.
I appreciate that we have to provide our politicians and senior civil servants, regulators, who served us so wonderfully in the past with fabulous incomes, munificent pensions and all the trappings of a lavish lifestyle but that should be the purpose of our income tax, with special exemptions for our lords and masters, but it is not the purpose of a water charge.
In fairness, we should tug the forelock to those who wish to soak us.
Peter, as a matter of interest.. Now that we will be metered and paying a direct water bill, will this have any effect on the other findings in the Ryan v AG case? (I think that’s the name – it resulted in our bodily integrity clause)
One of the most common reasons given by other EU states for why they do not add fluoride is the ethical issue of forcibly medicating the public, some mention that it is for public health reasons that they do not do this. Others cite insufficient evidence of benefit.
I wonder – will we be able to demand clean, non fluoridated water if we are to be charged for it and have to deal directly with the water board? As this was one reason cited for why Mrs Ryan could not demand fluoride be removed from her water at the time.
Plus they’d save money, fluoridation certainly isn’t free, which is insane because the stuff they use is technically a waste material from the agricultural sector.
@ Shanti Om, great question! I wish that I had thought of that! That is resourceful. The highly questionable benefit of fluoridation has been long and well overtaken by a dental service, however restricted, and our awareness of the interaction of bacteria and sugar.
Based on a very quick thing about this, Ryan v AG would likely be overturned in light of later evidence and, more importantly, that consumers are directly paying for water and should legally be entitled, bodily integrity, not to have to ingest fluoride. The opt out entitlement would mean that the public water mains supply would have to be sans fluoride.
I don’t know the answer to this question but are there any water filters which could successfully eliminate fluoride from the tap water supply? It is not a strictly legally relevant solution but it might influence the Court.
Personally speaking I am opposed to compulsory fluoridation and I know of many people who ascribe very serious side effects to fluoride but I don’t know if they are or might be right!
There are water filters available, and I did hear that there is an EU grant available to have them installed – but cannot find out how one goes about doing so.
The downside is that the filters work by reverse osmosis, this means that absolutely everything is taken out of the water and mineral tablets need to be added afterward, this changes the pH of the water slightly – so while they are an option, they are not an ideal one.
Really, there’s no reason to have either sodium fluoride or fluorosilic acid in the water supply. The dental benefits of fluoride refer to topical application (ie toothpaste) and not ingestion. Ingestion leads to dental fluorosis (white mottled spots on teeth which can lead to tooth decay and loss over time) and may be linked to other detrimental health effects. There’s a reason your toothpaste and mouthwash have “do not swallow” printed on the packet.
There’s also an EU health warning about preparing infant formula with fluoridated water – but then there’s also advice not to prepare infant formula with bottled water due to the sodium content – so what are we supposed to use here?
I refuse to pay while there is flouride in the water
Pity you dont refuse to breathe air while there are environmental toxins present from fossil fuels also.
Don’t be an ass joe !!!
He can’t help it
Hey notonthedoleanymore – were you commenting as on the dole before? If so, I’ll take it from your name change that circumstances have changed and say congratulations!
Step 1) introduce new tax at low rate.
Step 2) get people to pay
Step 3) double it within three years.
When water rates were brought into Britain they had increased by 300% in ten years and that is what will happen here in Ireland.
Paul, I agree with 1 and 2. On 3, I think that you are conservative and, although when metres are introduced water usage can be introduced, the Government will charge more and more for water the less and less we use it. The government is determined to soak us dry and it will be unrelenting in its tax impositions.
under the cover of having to do what the Troika says blah blah blah, this is the selling off of our precious waterways to private interests. Oligarchs are buying up all sorts of ‘real’ assets because they know that fiat currency’s days of holding value are coming to an end. They also realise that to control the water is ultimately more powerful than controlling the oil!
Food is already being traded & gambled on on the futures market, before its even grown!
Water will be next. Such a move needs to be stopped, & indigenous peoples everywhere need their ownership of their water carved in stone.
do not underestimate what is going on here, this is the economic hitmen of the IMF just doing what they do.
While all the mugs were buying soon to be worthless securities & junk derivative products which had a forged AAA rating, the people who devised it all had unloaded their junk paper. while advising their ‘investors ‘ to buy paper, they were busy buying up wheat, copper, lithium, gold, silver etc, while telling everyone that these commodities strength was a bubble that would bust. They done all this with the blessing of governments, & now they are back to clean us out of our most precious assets.
This should be resisted vigorously!
Failure to see the significance of it will be fatal.
@ Eric, I did my best to find fault in your reasoning. I could find none. It’s a fascinating insight. I have a horrible sick feeling that you may be right. We saw what Thatcher did.
We are an interesting country. We just love to privatise essential utilities, our Government gets excited about it. Mary O’Rourke was in a state of delirious excitement over the Eircom privatisation. We see what happened.
Watch the documentary, Blue Gold.
A somewhat boring watch at times, but if you sit through it, & take it in properly, it’s quite clear what’s going on.
@ Eric, I am much obliged. That documentary is really unsettling and thought provoking. There is far more to this issue than the pain and misery of coughing up yet another tax. You have done a good service in alerting us to this aspect. Thank you. I need to do a lot of thinking and research about this but I am already enlightened by you. It’s great to get posts that are insightful or informative.
Of course, the danger is that forums like The Journal allow a popular and democratic sharing of unorthodox but no less valid views.
Could it be that a lot of orthodox and conventional thinking is not necessarily want us in the best interests of the people and the world? That’s a very big question but non mainstream views of today may be the truth.
The household charge is to pay for services is providing water not a service are we just paying the same tax twice ?
Now that you mention it, you will in fact be paying for water three times, including through your income tax.
You have to take a step back and think before answering this! Already in parts of the US, water collection methods allowing the user to get out of water charges, have been challenged by the state! This is another stealth tax! With proper management, this wouldn’t be necessary! Cant pay and certainly wont pay! They can’t cut you off!
I believe in the right to free water but I simply refuse to pay for it to be cleaned of other peoples you know what.
But it’s not free… How do you get your water? From a river? Collect it in buckets? Possibly what you mean is that it should be free at the point of delivery.
Water is not free. It costs money to both clean it and deliver it. Someone has to pay…..simple
Like local councils, this IS payed for by taxes, they always have been and always will. End of.
We won’t be paying for it though. We will be using that money to pay down debt. I agree with the other points that its not a water charge. It’s a debt repayment charge in a very thin disguise.
What about rental property’s ? Maybe 2-3 sets of tenants a year, who pays then ??
It will be largely boycotted because, just like the household charge, Hogan and his department have made a complete bollix of the whole thing.. A flat rate per household tax for water is grossly unfair, just as a flat rate household charge; it doesn’t take Einstein to recognise that.
Personally, I feel extremely resentful at being subjected to such injustice simply because the government are incapable of or unwilling to administer these charges in an equitable manner, instead insisting on pushing ahead with the charges when the necessary structures have clearly not been established..
Arse-about-face as always..
In fairness, in Ireland, the only thing we love more than mass, is a good oul’ boycott!
48% agree to pay even more taxes , wasn’t sure before but now I know that FF will come back into power again . What I find most encouraging is the ignorance of some comments calling people free loaders . I hope this country sucks every penny out of ye cause even then like sheep hiding in the darkness together ye will bend over and take it.
I think socially the divide in middle to lower class is widening. Once the full years property tax has to be paid next year in January (double what they pay in June)the realisation that another few euro a week is vanishing from the tightest household budgets some houses have ever known the wave of resentment will rise.
I’m paying simply as part of my effort to stop Clare Daly drooning on and on
the Irish can’t stand up anymore, so like good little eu citizens we will pay, yet we are just paying the same bad servie that was always there and nothing done to make anyone accountable for the present state it’s in,
If we were really good EU citizens we wouldn’t be pumping agricultural waste products into the water supply at a cost of millions under the guise of “dental health”, no other EU country does this because they say it is unethical to forcibly medicate the people.
our water here in ballyheigue is full of lime which destroys every pipe and household appliance it goes into,we have as far as im concerned had to pay for our water and the cost has been huge and am not paying to get such water pumped into my house,get real fg/lb
Have a look at what they put in our drinking water. Then you’d boycott paying for sure.
Fluoride. To dumb down the masses.
How do you explain clever people?
Revenue will simply be given additional powers if people don’t pay. Most other countries have had water and household charges for years. In Ireland, people expect the welfare State to pay for everything from the cradle to the grave, if anything goes wrong sue the State also. All of this costs money.
Revenue won’t get any powers to chase it. It’s a utility bill. You don’t see revenue commissioners calling if you don’t pay your electricity bill.
You also forget that a large hike in road tax was brought in years ago to pay for the maintenance of water supply
You didn’t see revenue commissioners calling before to enforce property taxes, but that is what is going to happen now though change in legislation. Call the flat rate water charge what you like – a bill, a charge, a tax – revenue will have database of all the properties in the country, and can easily be given powers to enforce payment.
Nonsense. See Ryan’s comment.
Exactly- one is a tax, the other is a utility bill. What part of that do you not understand?
Most other countries have got household and water charges but they dont pay road tax, hospital bills, GP bills, excessive amounts of VAT, double taxations, dental care and so on. We are the worst charged country in Europe for taxes and double taxes.
In “most other countries”, citizens are provided with services for the taxes they pay. Here, the rule of “give us more, we give you less” always applies.
It’s a brand new tax, ostensibly related to the provision of clean, drinkable water. In many parts of the country, this provision is consistently and regularly reneged upon.
Before any charge is applied to watet supply, firstly, a realistic and binding commitment must be made by the govetnment to bring commensurate improvement and upgrade to our ancient water system. Secondly, a flat charge per household is a typically lazy and ham-fisted approach to water charges, obviously resulting in smaller households subsidising the consumption of those with more residents; households must be metered..
I dont have a problem paying. Like any utility that I use, I’ll gladly pay for it :)
Would you have a problem with paying motor tax twice?
Can’t really see your logic here Ronan but of course I’d have an issue paying twice.
Naturally, your statement is relevant to VRT I assume and I take exception to VRT being applied to any purchase of motor vehicle that I have made.
I ws talking about paying a tax twice. You already pay for water and councils etc through your taxes in all their forms, as has always been. Not talking about VRT at all, just paying twice for things is what I have a problem with.
This is another double tax on people,like Ronan said ” like local councils”.For all those people that don’t believe this is a double tax,the question is,who do you think was paying for all of this before these new charges were introduced ??? “YOUR TAXES!!!”
Councils gain revenue through retail rates etc….. Not through PAYE.
It’s a utility, you wouldn’t ask the council to pay your gas bill, would you??
We are not connected to any scheme. We had to pay thousands to dig our own well and pay to maintain it as there is no service where we are. Do we have to pay the charges even though the government don’t provide the service?
Keeping to the law should not treated as a debatable option. A real problem is the growing lawless lifestyle of the “don’t give a damns” who consciously or unconsciously chose to be untaxable and therefore self-alienate themselves
It is our patriotic duty to resist unjust laws.
As we already pay water charges in PRSI, this is double taxation. This, is unjust. Especially as the PRSI net has just been widened.
Some of us already pay for our water. A few years ago, we paid 1200 Euros to be connected to our group water scheme, and now get an annual water bill. We have a meter. Does anyone know how these schemes will be treated in the new era? double payment is my guess.
I think that compliance will be slightly higher initially than with the HHC and then people will cave until only a small amount of people going “‘Snot fair, don’t wanna!” remain.
I’m concerned at proposals for apartments. From what I’ve read they will just meter the block or development. Presumably this charge will get proportioned out and added to the service charge. However that’s not fair. For the last few years my husband and I have made a big effort to reduce our water usage (because we knew this charge was coming). Spent money on a new Eco washing machine, upgraded our toilet flushing mechanisms, cut shower times etc. why should we pay the same proportional charge as the apartment beside us with four people living in it, and who haven’t done any thing to reduce supply??
Surely our property tax should be for bins, water and essential services, but this lot want to charge us twice for everything!
Have to laugh at comments like “free loaders” do some people not realise that others don’t have the money for it? How does that make them free loaders ? Where others rightly so protest against some of the taxes, what do you want the government to do ride us even more, a lot of people work and do long hours & struggle on…..they don’t need added pressures of more taxes, sure they cant pay their mortgages how can they cope with more crap!
only 2% of the worlds water is drinkable and we should not waste it but before they change us for it they need to fix all the holes in the pipes.
I doubt this will be a popular remark but I think there should be a water charge! Anyone in a rural area has to go to the expense of drilling wells and upkeeping a while piping and well system, why should urban people be exempt? Especially at a time when people waste an awful lot of water and moreso because it is the most valuable resource on this planet. People need to understand the value of water and monies made should be put directly back into the system to manage it better and conserve it as much as possible!
They aren’t exempt from paying for a supply of water. They pay through taxes, as always. What part of this do people have difficulty with?
Plus – your water doesn’t taste of chlorine and hasn’t had agricultural waste products added to it under the guise of dental health. The government aren’t forcibly medicating you and then expecting you to pay for the privilege..
The percentage of yes votes is going up and up as the day goes on! Freeloaders only getting out of bed now huh?
You n Phil on the golf course at half seven..
Just coming to the 19th now!
You mean the people who’ve worked hard all week are waking up from a well deserved Saturday lay-in
Oh Robin can i be you . What’s your secret.
It is perhaps a little off topic but for those who enthusiastically or with calm resignation accept these household charges, water charges, property taxes, levies etc., you should realise that the Government has an almost insatiable demand for more and more tax revenues to meet the directions of the Troika.
The Government will progressively, ineluctably and without compunction increase the tax take in every way possible. It is only when the vast majority of the electorate should enough is enough and pose a threat to the stability of government will the foot on your necks be relaxed.
It is dignified, admirable and good that people pliantly and supinely accept their fate without murmur or opposition, reassuring themselves that laws are to be obeyed and that opponents of tax are scroungers and socialists but so long as you obey, you will increasingly suffer and see your fellow citizens in misery and penury. You may harden your hearts, but remember eventually even those who can afford the current cumulative burden of tax will eventually start to struggle.
The Government decided not to increase income tax and see these taxes as the solution. If you don’t protest, it will get much worse.
We have to look out for each other. The Government is unable to do so, even if it wanted. Our taxation policy is no longer fully determined nationally.
Well said. We are trying to get people to wake up to what is going on. Check out what my campaign is doing http://www.facebook.com/TheGirlAgainstFluoride . We educate the people and so far we have received enormous support. People are beginning to wake up to the utter fraudulence of this government who want to inflict us with sub standard fluoridated water and to install smart meters that are banned in other countries. Time for all of us to take back our power of democracy.
The entitlement culture is being fast eroded. And about time too. Strict rules and vetting procedures will ensure genuine needs are met and stop the flow of tax payers money into the pockets of freeloaders. I’ve no problem paying tax so long as the right elements of society benefit…
Freeloaders as in Bonholders Pinstriped Bankers Super Junior Ministers and grumpy old right wingers who have availed of non water charges there whole life, reaching the end so wont have pay long term like the rest of us and would love to see the country and the stat quo stay the same and will defend any establishment tax like it was him that gave birth to it .The shortsighted of old age who cannot see the more money you take off people in taxes that go into a black hole of debt the more freeloaders as you say there will be and will ultimately topple the very system that they are trying to smother people in.Not very wise on establishment side too fast too fast pushing it too fast and it will be the wealthy who will be footing the bill in the end.For their greed will be their downfall.
Jack, play another record. Regardless of bondholders this tax and others would have to be introduced. Our income tax and stamp duty honeymoon are long gone. We’ve drawn down
19bn to date from bailout fund just to keep the doors open cause we don’t have it. And cut the BS about old men selling out. It’s pure populist shite. Move on…
You pay ok and i wont ok you do what your told and be a good boy and i wont do what im told and be a good by too but i know who i am and i dont bow down to criminals in suits and thats all their is too it and we will see how the future of our country looks in ten years.Oh by the way the new word for populism is truth common sense fair play and equality so every time you say i am spouting populism i will take it as a compliment Mr OReilly thank you very much.
It doesn’t take a genius to predict that the governments enforcer/attack dog, Revenue, will be tasked with collections. They will get you alive or dead. As in, massive trumped up penalties before you die or from your estate thereafter. I hope all the politicians who advocated a boycott of the Household charge are going to dig into their pockets to help those that get utterly screwed by the inevitable penalties they will amass from the Revenue.
Water charges for toxic industrial waste? In case people don’t realize the water in Ireland is fluoridated using industrial chemicals that were banned by the EU in 2006 for their use as a biocide in wood preservative. This is why the chemicals are now sourced from China where the safety standards are more lax. 98% of Europe have fluoride free water. The north of Ireland is not fluoridated and we are. We have higher cancer rates and twice the levels of hip fractures. I am The Girl Against Fluoride and I am not paying for water that contains neuro toxic and carcinogenic agents. http://www.thegirlagainstfluoride.com
Who’ll pay it, who’ll be able to afford it! I hope the meters are swimming in a sea of black tar, If people got organised and cut it off before meters are introduced and got the water through harvesting and cutting back. Can you imagine the whole Country doing this, as a means of protest and fight those corrupt shysters!
@ Patrice Aurburn… The Comment you posted is like your name… Silver Spooned and fars
@ Patrice Auburn..The comment you posted is the same as your name… Silver-Spooned and farcical!!!
The difference between the Household charge and water charge. If we do not pay water charge they will cut us off.
They can’t cut you off !!
It is a basic human right dont be so scared of everything and find out things before you fall into the fear trap.
They cut of peoples ESB so what is to stop them from doing the same with the water.It remains to be seen. I know they cannot turn off your water but in theses days of uncertainty anything can happen. WATER IS A RIGHT SO YES THE SHOULD NOT TURN IT OFF AT SOURCE.
most of our domestic waste charge subsides commercial waste charges. the same with the water charges,the domestic user will be subsiding commercial/industrial use. I believe water should be free within certain amounts, everybody should have access to clean water, if you are washing your car with it/watering your lawn and generally wasting water, you should pay.
What was paying for these services, before we got caught for the private bank debt. We are drowning in water, maybe now that it must be paid for? The citizens won’t waste it, water harvesting is the solution? So many questions?
The near 100% employed Stephen. Ya know, those 430,000 no longer working, requiring the same services and now social welfare. And don’t forget the stamp duty Stephen. All the we “didn’t go mad” people who took out loans on properties they should never have gotten close too. That’s who paid Stephen…
O’ Reilly, I don’t know what planet your on? But when these rates start doubling or trebling in the next few years, I hope you can explain where the money is going then and obeying like the good cash cow you are. I doubt, this Government will exist by the next budget and maybe a revolution by then!
Stephen,
You asked where the money came from to pay for these services before the country went tits up. I answered. Where do you think the money will come fron to pay for these in the future if we all adopt your position?
Not a complete cut off but only enough for drinking and basic sanitation but it becomes so much of a pain like taking ages for your tank and loo to refill after use. You will end up paying it.
Not true! Your toilet etc is filled from the tank in the attic. Your drinking water is the only feed off the rising main!
Rory, where do you think the water in the tank in the attic comes from?
If it is done properly the government could save a lot of money. Every property must register how many people are living there and allow 60l of water free per person per day. After that is chargeable. People scamming the system in social housing will be caught. Eg if 5 people are living in a house built for 2.
I just really hope it’s not privatised !!
mt daddy owns kpmg
Mmm wonder what they.ll be taxing next.
Our dog wouldn’t drink our tap water either
There will also be the introduction of smart meters (banned in parts of California and Canada as the radiation they emit is dangerous) which you will have to pay for. Smart meters emit radiation 24/7 and are not safe. Do your research. Who stands to gain from the introduction of these smart meters? Cameron O Reilly. So smart meters and industrial grade fluoridated water for the Irish people. Are you really going to pay for this?
Well said Aisling!
When the water is fit for use I will be happy to pay for it. It costs me more than the proposed water charges to make the water here fit for drinking and household use as it’s full of lime.
If our ministers, TDs…. take a 25% reduction in salary i might consider paying the water charge” if i can afford it”
They have to charge us under world trade rules ,so the government can sell it off to privet companies.
There needs to be an intergrated payment scheme. i.e. If business/households dont pay water charges or any other taxes it can be deducted from any payments they get from the state. e.g. Famers wont get the cheque in the post unles they pay their water charges. This has to be the way.
Their right to be worried ,the Irish invented the boycott.
have your say