Conor. People ( myself included ) who dutifully paid of their mortgages don’t need a handout. By helping out people who are saddled with mortgage debt, they can never repay helps everyone in the long term. I want this country back on its feet as quickly as possible, and if that means short term pain, then so be it. If we continue on the path we are currently on, we will never recover. Our kids deserve to Start their lives with a clear slate.

How is it fair or equitable to reward those who were reckless with their borrowing and expect that the taxes of people who kept within their means to bail out others?

Wouldnt be sustainable te banks would go under if they did that and who would value your house to decide its value (itll be the most corrupt system of valuation youd ever see) small write downs to make payments. More manageable not a write down to value

Conor and Jay.
What we have in Ireland is nothing short of financial genocide.
Save your lame arguments for NAMA and Co.
The culprits in all this have been bailed out to the tune of a hundred billion.
Don’t you think it is time to spend a few billion on their distressed victims (who are paying for all the bailouts anyway)???
God Bless The Brave People Of Iceland!

It is time that people started challenging the corrupt/criminal banks that broke the country and destroyed millions of lives.

Hear hear Nial……common sense would dictate that but the banks and lawyers are probably calling the shots here rather than an elected lawmaker working for the best interests of the distressed taxpayer

Using iceland as an example tells me what sort of person. Im dealing with you seem to know as much about the economics if iceland as you do ireland

I do belive people should be given write downs. But write downs to value is ludacris and wont ever happen in a million years so basically by your logic when you buy a car and after a year you sell it for less you want the difference written off …

@robbie and Connor…..good to know that your personal circumstances remained viable and solid enough for you be responsible and pay off your debts and mortgages…however things change and people with solid personal finances can find themselves in utterly changed times where thru no fault of their own they may be jobless or responsible for a failed business..this new regime if designed to help people reorganise their finances or in an extreme event declare themselves insolvent…you live in a society with shared benifits and responsibilities and I sincerely hope that neither of you find yourselves in extreme or changed circumstances at anytime soon

What I don’t understand is the entitled that people feel, judging by the comments on this people expect to get everything for free, and want to give diddly squat in return. You want all your debts written off yet you all refuse to pay certain taxes? Where do you honestly think money comes from, out of Enda Kennys ass?

@ Jay/Robbie/Conor.
I hope the corrupt/criminal bankers, senior civil servants and politicians are going to reward you for supporting their disgusting heinous crimes.
I for one, prefer to see my family/friends/neighbors alive and well
and not being tortured by corrupt/criminal bankers and their government stoogeens.

First of all for the 3 rd time i do think people should get a write down just not a write down to value. Maybe if you took ur head out of ur hole long enough you would see that .. You economic policy amaze me i dont kow weather your just fishing for green thumbs as some sort of confidence mechanism

Writing off every all money owed on a house above asking price is nothing but the biggest pipe dream you could ever spout i dont support the banks o dont support fg o dont support civil servants i just suppord smart financial decisions that will get the country moving again not unrealistic dreams taught up by people in arreers who feel hard done by

Prosecute the real culprits Jay.
and
Not their innocent victims.

FF signed te debt into sovergn there is nothin we can do about it now only o try get a write off or a write down jut like people with excessive mortages should do .. But you can blame the banks about alot but if you were silly enough not to see that a 1200-1800 a month mortage over 35 years well regardless of the wage you were on you shouldnt have felt comfortable paying that if you did well you do only have urself to blame the banks didnt hold u at gun point signing that

Over the past 5 years I have seen local decent people being victimized, harassed, intimidated, vilified and crushed between half assed lazy “insolvency legislation” (that is not fit for purpose) and the disgusting “bankers” that broke the country .
Yet some of you would rather see your neighbor being persecuted to death by these common criminals, for something that was not of their making.

Please remember
Most of these people/victims only wanted
(1) a basic home and
(2) a basic run of the mill financial product to purchase their home with.
Instead they got a disgusting, poisoned tomb of torture.
Where is the banker’s/government’s duty of care?
This is Financial Genocide.
Tens of thousands of Suicides.
Hundreds of thousands emigrating.
Half the country below the poverty line.
Is this Clerical Abuse II??
Have these disgusting banks replaced sexual abuse with their psychological abuse/torture?
Yet again will our bought out government(s) stand by and allow their people to be abused by large organisations?

Sorry Jay.
I can’t make out your last comment can you re write it.
Thanks.

Did you think rambling on was goin to randomly distract people from the fact you cant constructivly respond to anything i say .

Perhaps the people suffering from “financial genocide” should have read the terms and conditions before taking out their mortgages?

Writing from my iphone stupid spelling my appoligies

No worries Jay.
Can you rewrite your post please?
Thank you.

FF Signed the banking debt to the irish people there is nothing we can do about it now only look for either a restructure or a write down the mortage debt should be looked at in the same way if its un sustainable to pay ypur mortage then go into the banks and re structure it

You can Blame the banks for alot but if you were silly enough to sign a 1200-1800 per month mortage over 35 years ad didnt think it was excessive regardless of what your current wage. If you didnt think that ammount of money was an uncomfortably large ammount of money to pay well you only have yourself to blame. People seem to forget that they went to the banks for money the banks didnt hold a gun to your head and force you to sign..

Ive taken in my fair share if excessive personal debt during the boom years and will be paying alot of money back for quite a number of years but ive accepted that if i was foolish not to use my common sense while accepting the loans ive only myself to blame for the 10 year of paying back ahead of me

What is your solution Jay?
How do you want this to end for the people (who on a daily basis) are being
singled out/harassed/victimized/intimidated/criminalized/vilified/impoverished/shamed by the corrupt/criminal banks,
the very same corrupt/criminal banks that broke the country and destroyed million of lives?

The solution isnt to do a mass clearing of the slate on everyones mortage to the value thats for sure and here is why that dosent work

1) is the value now the true value of the house or will the drop further and if so do we do it again

2) who decides the value you and i or the government. Or worse still the estate agents who are just as much at fault as anyone for ther current situation any of the 3 would not work as you and i would be a risk of lying for our own gain just like the other two alternatives would

3) why would the people paying their mortage now keep paying if they knew by not paying itll be wrote off

4) how would anyone get a mortage from the bank again if the banks knew that if it looses value they take the hit

The only real answer is of you cannot afford to pay go into the bank they will assess you and you payments will be based on that i know plenty of people who have done just that my friend got a 350k 110% mortage in 2006 his neighbours house sold last week 129k he was strugglin to make payments on his 2k a month repayments and after a discussion with the banks he now pays 600 per month .. Why isnt everyone goin in doin this

I’m sorry Jay
I’ll repeat my question.
What is your solution?
How do you want this to end for the people (who on a daily basis) are being
singled out/harassed/victimized/intimidated/criminalized/vilified/impoverished/shamed by the corrupt/criminal banks,
the very same corrupt/criminal banks that broke the country and destroyed million of lives?

The solution is to go to the banks and restructure your mortage.

The solution isnt to do a mass clearing of the slate on everyones mortage to the value thats for sure and here is why that dosent work
1) is the value now the true value of the house or will the drop further and if so do we do it again
2) who decides the value you and i or the government. Or worse still the estate agents who are just as much at fault as anyone for ther current situation any of the 3 would not work as you and i would be a risk of lying for our own gain just like the other two alternatives would
3) why would the people paying their mortage now keep paying if they knew by not paying itll be wrote off
4) how would anyone get a mortage from the bank again if the banks knew that if it looses value they take the hit
The only real answer is of you cannot afford to pay go into the bank they will assess you and you payments will be based on that i know plenty of people who have done just that my friend got a 350k 110% mortage in 2006 his neighbours house sold last week 129k he was strugglin to make payments on his 2k a month repayments and after a discussion with the banks he now pays 600 per month .. Why isnt everyone goin in doin this

Keeping property values falsely inflated won’t work Jay.

Believe it or not Jay there are real ways to value property based on real fundamentals.

Your friend is now paying €600 pm on a €2000 pm only means that the bank is prolonging the unsustainable situation that they have created for your friend.

They didnt create that he did they showed him a piece of paper with 350k on it and a repayment of 2k per month. He said yes

Im in no way on the banks side they had a part to play advertising and giving out mortages to anyone whod take one. But at the end of the day you sign to accept the payments

And in some cases i dont blame people some houses were doubling in value before you even got the keys and thats how the were justifying the colossal payments

A product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it Economics 101

The solution is to go to the banks and restructure your mortgage???

Why entrust the culprits/villians with this responsibility Jay?

I know many people who have tried to restructure their mortgages with these corrupt banks.
And in all cases, bar none, the banks in question tried their best to frustrate thing putting the honest customer into a worse situation,
so that the customer would default
leaving the bank free to evict the homeowner,close branches and let staff go.
There also seems to be some hidden taxation benefits for the banks to evict and repossess.

So give me you solution ive given you mine But rule 1 of giving a solution it must be a realistic solution

A product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it Economics 101???

Did you ever hear of vendor finance Jay??
No one will buy my product, because it is too dear, or they cant get finance,
so I supply them with my own expensive form of finance, so that I can get some sales in.

Only a small fraction of the Irish property in the boom was bought with cash?
So what the property was “worth” and what the buyers were “willing to pay” is arguable
because the banks were supplying 95% of the money for all the property transactions in the country?
The “experts” in the banks should have known this before they used it to break themselves and the country.

During the boom Anglo Private Clients, were buying properties at overinflated values, from Anglo Developers using money lent by Anglo.
This was a common practice of the corrupt/criminal bankers to artificially inflate property prices and their commissions/profits.
It was a form of insider trading.

Irish Nationwide got so greedy they started taking profit shares in their customers developments, whilst at the same time funding homeowners to the hilt to take the properties of their hands at overinflated prices.

Using loose bank money, the big developers were selling the same field of development land back and over to one another
at a falsely overinflated prices,
using falsely overinflated valuations,
pocketing a few million on each corrupt exchange.

In a local (non Irish) bank branch (now closed) the manager was giving finance only to the developers that gifted a couple of houses to his relatives.

Did you ever consider that you just may have too much faith in the real villains Jay??

My solution would be.

Write all the mortgages down to a real sustainable value based on real sustainable fundamentals Jay.

And let the bankers just hope and prey that their victims and the families of their deceased victims dont sue them for damages.

How did the prices go down …. Because people were not willing or not capable to pay the ammounts anymore

I dont know why you keep trying to move you argument to the banks wrong doing when the point im making is refering to the fact that people themselves signed the dotted line

Thats your solution ???? Did we not agree that rule 1 of a solution must be realistic because id we were not using the rule then my solution is money trees for everyone

Oh and I forgot to mention.
Bring out instant bankruptcies for the severely distressed victims of the banks.
People can file in the U.K and be out 1 year anyway, so let us not loose more of our good people to other countries in this way.
The current situation has not worked for the past 5 years and neither will the “new” half assed, banker written, insolvency legislation.
I know that some disgusting vultures are probably corruptly benefiting, handsomely from the current filthy Status Quo.
But the majority of people are not.
So sort it out and let us all move on.

So you’d prefer to bail out the banks than your friends, family or neighbour? Well done!

Why should some people get free houses and others have to pay?

Ask NAMA Conor.

Brendan O’Carroll said it best when he said.
These people don’t want a hand out, they just want a hand up.
Fair play to Mrs Brown,
he has spoken a lot more about this travesty than our “fine leaders and protectors”.

You didn’t answer my question, why should some people get free houses and others have to pay? Why should some people pay their debts and others don’t have to? Why do some people sit and moan about how little benefits they have on the Internet all day and not get up off their arse and move for work?

Why do some people not get an education , get a good job and get a career and spend the rest of their lives begrudging who did? It’s always everyone else’s fault but your own. No one forced you to take out a stupid mortgage, No one forced you to make no provision in case you get let go. The mentality of some Irish people is severely depressing.

I for one have a college education and a promising career. I also have a small mortgage which is lower than most renters pay each month, but I’d still like to see those in need helped out. It’s called compassion!

Please don’t try to deviate Conor.
The banks did not give many dole lifers, a mortgage to buy a house.
Although it wouldn’t surprise me if they did.
With their self cert subprime rubbish.
Remember during the boom, even PTSB had set up a “special” subprime unit called Springboard, so that they could dish out their cheap money even faster.

All the corrupt people/criminals got bailed out Conor, with the blood money extracted from their victims.

Do you really think the innocent homeowners wanted to pay higher prices for their homes?

This was a property Ponzi scheme run by the banks and the government.
The real guilty must be prosecuted and jailed.
Don’t try to cover up for criminals Conor.

Did none of the “innocent” homeowners not think that it’s stupid to borrow ten times your salary?

Yes Conor.
The banks with the well paid “experts” dished out
Mortgages on 5-6-7-8-9-10+ times salary.
and
on an interest only (on the family home)
and
on 100%+ of the property’s true value.
and
on a self cert basis.
and
on drive by half assed valuations.
and
on unsafe derelict properties.

Take priory hall for example
over 150x €250,000+ mortgages dished out by various banks on a death trap?

5 years on
a country bust
3 generations in debt slavery
and not one banker/TD/senior civil servant/regulator in jail?

So the people who took out the mortgages are not to blame at all? Noone held a gun to their head! Borrowing ten times your salary is retarded and any fool knows this.

So you are saying that although these products were defective/poisoned and missold by reckless corrupt people/criminals (that broke the country) that we should all blame the only people that are paying in the situation.

The banks/TDs/developers/senior civil servants were bailed out to the tune of a hundred billion.
A few billion will save the victims who are paying for the bailouts.
If it makes a few people jealous then so what.
I’d rather my neighbor alve than dead.

Write these mortgages down to the real value of the properties now and save the victims of this financial torture.

What is your solution Conor?
How do you want this to end?

Who will pay for this to happen? My personal preference would be for people to pay interest only and then to use the house as the capital repayment when they die?

Thank you Conor.
Just a few questions.

A lot of the people in this situation cannot afford interesest only.
What do recommend to do in this situation?

What if people no longer want to or can live in the property.
What would you recommend to do then?

What would you recommend to do in the case of future interest rates rises?

Thank you Conor.
Just a few questions.

A lot of the people in this situation cannot afford interesest only.
What do recommend to do in this situation?

What if people no longer want to or can live in the property.
What would you recommend to do then?

What would you recommend to do in the case of future interest rates rises?

If they can’t afford an interest only payment, then the bank should repossess their house, this is unlikely as mortgage interest supplement will pay the interest on a mortgage for people in actual need.

If they don’t want to live in the property then its their own fault, they should have continued to rent. I have no sympathy.

In case of future interest rises? I’d go in switch to a fixed rate mortgage..

If they can’t afford an interest only payment, then the bank should repossess their house, this is unlikely as mortgage interest supplement will pay the interest on a mortgage for people in actual need.

If they don’t want to live in the property then its their own fault, they should have continued to rent. I have no sympathy.

In case of future interest rises? I’d go in switch to a fixed rate mortgage..

I’m sorry Conor but a close friend “in actual need” got interest supplement and it only covered half the interest.
Please also tell me what do you recommend happens to the customer and the property after the bank repossesses the property.

I said if they don’t want to/can’t live in property
Meaning that for reasons beyond their control that they can’t live in the property anymore.

The fixed interest rates that banks are offering are normally higher than the standard variable or tracker rates that their customers are currently on.
The banks are generally only using their their fixed rates “offerings” as a scam to get people off their (loss making trackers) (the hundreds of thousands off loss making trackers that the banks recklessly dished out during the boom)
And besides that banks don’t offer fixed rates to their distressed customers Conor.

“Who will pay for this to happen? My personal preference would be for people to pay interest only and then to use the house as the capital repayment when they die”?

I’m sorry Conor but it’s just that what you are suggesting there is akin to debt slavery and will destroy these people and in turn our country.
Please try to give me a more realistic/sustainable/practical solution.