That would be a ecumenical matter.

Is it ok to run roughshod over the less powerful that were once powerful?

Like the whites in Zimbabwe?

Is that what equality is all about?

To compare the removal of a flag to the way Zimbabwe treats white farmers is laughable.

I didn’t.

I asked whether once a group loses power it becomes fair to grind them down in the name of equality.

Extreme comparison to be sure (to be sure) but comparison none the less.

I do feel there are shades of post colonial Africa about NI, albeit much more mildly.

No, but it’s equally unfair to grind a community down in the name of superiority.

Absolutely, Jason, is it not though the clarion cry of the oppressed as seek to end oppression “Give us equality!”, then the moment they gain a sniff of an upper hand this turns to “OK, let’s see how you like it.”

I’m sure if they really wanted to piss them off they would have removed it altogether.

I don’t think it’s a case of we’re in power now let’s see how you like it, I think it’s some people up north don’t want to be seen as British some don’t want to be seen as Irish and this is a way of striking out their own identity.

I don’t view it like that, but I accept your point. The Northern ‘situation’ (specifically in Belfast) if I may call it that has evolved in such a way that the majority must be catered for. The council has ruled that the Union Jack can only be flown on a specific number of days, the rest of the time it’s taken down. This hardly equates to their rights being trampled upon. If that was the case the flag would never be flown.

The fervour with which Loyalists cling to a symbol is a bit alien to me I must admit, but while I accept your point, I don’t think we can characterise the previous months’ events as the Nationalist community riding roughshod over Loyalist rights. What you have identified is one of the flaws of democracy in action- the tyranny of the majority.

Sure it’s not like the city council decided to fry the tri-colour instead. The problem with majority rule is there’s always gonna be someone annoyed at your decisions.

“I’m sure if they really wanted to piss them off they would have removed it altogether.”

Didn’t they propose that at the get go?

“I don’t think it’s a case of we’re in power now let’s see how you like it”
“Get over it lads, you are now a minority.”

Compare and contrast.

Exactly!

They did and they changed their views to suit the unionists.

They are in a minority, if they ever regain the majority and they want to fly the union flag again more power to them, but up until that day they are going to have to deal with it.

Trust me when I tell you that the vast majority of the English don’t want anything to do with them, in fact they would happily see them jettisoned tomorrow if they had the opportunity as would many of the Scots.

Isle of Man. Keeps everyone happy.

“they would happily see them jettisoned tomorrow”

If it could be done without a bloodbath and it was the will of a clear civil majority.

There is no northern Irish flag.

That’s what I assumed, ie if there was one, such issues wouldn’t be so divisive. Perhaps I’m wrong, but the issue is very much around symbolism and the symbolism of both the Union Jack and Tri Colour will for a long time to come cause division. A single symbol for Northern Ireland might just lessen the tendency for division.

Em, there is a Northern Ireland flag. Red Cross on white with crown thingy in the intersection of the cross. Nationalists don’t recognise it.

Isn’t that just St George’s cross and represents England. Forgive my ignorance, but the only other flag like this that exists is the Ulster flag which is the Red Cross on white with the red hand of ulster in the centre. If this is what you’re referring to, it’s not a flag that represents Northern Ireland, but rather Ulster as a Provence.

That isn’t the flag of the north. It’s the flag of ‘the govt. of northern Ireland’ which ceased to exist in 1972. That flag has no official status apart from soccer and has no constitutional recognition within the UK. So it’s not that nationalists don’t recognise it, loyalists are the only ones who do recognise it! The tricolour is our flag and will eventually get equal representation.

Best solution is no flags in the North, or both flags flown equally. No painted kerb-stones and no paramilitary flags hanging from lamp-posts either. Loyalists have had a siege-mentality since the 17th century, marking themselves out as a planted people in a foreign land. We nationalists reached out to them with the 1916 Proclamation and in the design and concept of the Tri-colour, the people of the 26 Counties voted in 1998 to accept the staus-quo in the 6, the Provisional IRA declared “the war is over”, Provisional Sinn Fein have renounced violence as a means to an end… How many gestures do nationalists have to make? I said before that unionism needs its leaders to step up to the plate and face the future with confidence and optimism. At the present time, loyalism seems devoid of leadership, and unsavoury elements have been swift to exploit that fact.

Scottish Independence is not about a Flag. The majority of Scottish people don’t want to be separate from the rest of the UK. If it was just about a flag we would end up like our NI friends, fighting with each other and the authorities. Independence is not what we want and getting a advice from anyone from Northern Ireland is the best laugh I’ve had in years

There were Kings before Germanic tribes conquered Britain. King Harold was the last Anglo-Saxon King of England. Then came the Normans (they also influenced the English language) – William the Conqueror and from there the rise of the British Empire.

Kevin your knowledge of history is impressive. Lets not forget Boudiccia, queen of the Britons. She stood against imperial Rome. And Boudiccia was descended from the Celts, and the people of that island had sovereignty before the Celts “arrived”, much like our own Bronze-Age sovereignty. The English like to claim that they haven’t been invaded since 1066, but for a century afterwards their King’s spoke French and rarely visited that island.

Thanks Jamie, so do you! There was an interesting study done in England where it found that families that bear surnames of Norman origin were wealthier than those of Briton, Saxon, or Viking origin. Which makes sense since they were the last people to conquer England and they confiscated the lands of the natives and previous invaders who wouldn’t pledge loyalty to them.

The Normans were obviously French-speaking.

Their beloved queen is still german. Her family only changed her name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to windsor in 1917 during the war so the peasants wouldn’t revolt against her.

Really James vi of Scotland was German?

This is typical of the discourse on here