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THE RAPE CRISIS Network Ireland has called for the end of granting bail after a conviction for rape, following the controversial sentencing of a convicted serious sexual offender this earlier week.
On Monday, 72-year-old Patrick O’Brien pleaded guilty to charges of rape and indecent assault of his daughter over the course of ten years. Justice Paul Carney sentenced the man to 12 years in prison but suspended the final nine years and released O’Brien on bail pending an appeal.
It is the latest in a series of high profile cases which have seen seemingly disproportionately lenient sentences handed down to people found guilty of offences involving sexual assault.
Fiona Neary, RCBNI Executive Director, said that sentencing is the final stage of “a long and arduous journey” for a survivor of rape and sexual crimes. As most victims choose not to make any report, it is estimated that only 2- 5 per cent of all rape cases will reach the point of sentencing, she pointed out.
“Sentencing for this small number of survivors is a vindication of not only their own rights and dignity but a resounding signal to fellow survivors that the State takes the violence they have experienced seriously. When a sentence fails to satisfy the dignity of the individual survivor, it fails other survivors who will never have their day in court,” said Neary.
“This latest sentencing decision, where Patrick O’Brien was released on continued bail having been given a 12 year custodial sentence, comes on the back of other controversial sentences over the past few months.”
Neary said consistency in sentencing is an issue of continuing concern: “While the average length of a sentence for rape is 9 years and 3 months (RAJI) there is variety in the final sentences for each individual case beyond the individual characteristics of cases. RCNI continue to strongly advocate for sentencing guidelines for judges to support consistency.”
The RCNI are also advocating a number of reforms to bail practices. “As recommended by Rape and Justice in Ireland 2009, bail in rape cases should always be subject to strict conditions especially considering RAJI found 77 per cent of defendants (for all rape cases between 2000 & 2005) are granted bail at some stage in the criminal justice process,” Neary said.
“However, bail should not be granted to a defendant who has been convicted of rape as it is anticipated that a custodial sentence will
follow. It is our firm belief, and a conclusion of the RAJI researchers, that bail after conviction for a serious crime cannot serve justice. Additionally, in the past it has permitted convicted rapists to abscond to avoid custody,” she concluded.
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Judges in this country need a good kick up the behind.
Very true. The guy who cheated on vat had his sentence repealed but he is still in custody until a new sentence is decided on. There is something very wrong with this when we see that vile rapist walk out of court while it is being decided if he will serve a paltry three years. It’s disgusting and the judge should step down as he is clearly not fit for purpose
Couldn’t agree more. The more sinister the crime the more lenient the sentencing tends to be. WTF????
It’s a sad state of affairs when an organisation has to call for this. JUSTICE Paul Carney?! The man clearly doesn’t understand the justice part.
Death penalty…
Once this cowardly child rapist Patrick O Brien stays away from the garlic trade, he will enjoy his freedom.
Bring back Roman justice, he would have had his testicles crushed between two rocks in front of a cheering crowd.
What exactly is he appealing? He pleaded guilty. Toss him in jail!
Barry Sheehan – I understand what you are saying but in this case, the Father admitted to rape and assault and still got a very lenient sentence. And then to be granted bail aswell was very upsetting to his daughter. I think in cases where the person has admitted guilt they shouldnt be granted bail but I do understand what you are saying if the person is wrongly accused. Rape cases are so heartbreaking, there needs to be a new system in places because the one we have now isnt helping the real victims.x
well put CABK. And I would just like to point out the Rape Crisis Centre is not just ‘another feminist organisation’, they work with men who have been raped too, so its not just women who are in outcry over this trial,but evey decent man and woman in this country who want to see justice served to the victims of abuse and rape. I honestly think that no sentence is long enough for someone who as a Father, stole his daughters childhood away. He could get prison for 100 years and it stil wouldnt be long enough, because this woman, his daughter has to live with this the rest of her life. She was so brave to come forward and go over the ordeal over and over again to have the verdict come to this. I pray that people who have to grow through this find strenght and report any cases of assault. Please dont let any evil person get away with it. Unfortunately for me, my attacker got away and I have to live with the fact that they might be out there somewhere, doing it to someone else and thats something I have to live with everyday of my life. Im in prison, in my head.xxx
#Ellie Smyth
I am so sorry you are unable to seek justice against your attacker, you are very strong stay safe
1) The man pleaded guilty to raping a child, his daughter over a 10 year period, he received a custodial sentence with 9 years suspended. Why oh why was any of the sentence suspended, what migating factors are they EVER to rape a child. I believe that Judge Carney errer once again and his sentence should be increased on appeal with no suspension.
1 ) His Age, he didnt’ care about her age, he raped her the night before her communion
2) His Good Character – this is a child rapist we are talking about her, if you believe in evil its him
3 ) His sickness – totally irrelant, he has destroyed a childs life
Why is he out on bail, he has admitted to his crime, his innocence is not in doubt. I am a tax payer and am happy to pay for him to rot in jail. Any of the comments above about pros and cons of Feminism are completely misplaced and completely irrelevant, Wrong is Wrong.
ps may I respectfully request Carney to resign before he lets any more Rapists off.
My thoughts exactly, Laura.
@barry Sheehan She was not a woman but a child at the time of the abuse.
Barry, the prison system are more than willing to take this man in his condition. they have a private wing for sick and elderly patients, thats why he is on bail, because the Judge said it would be unfair to put him in prison pending sentencing because of his condition, even though the prison said they are more than willing to accomodate him.
“This basic concept appears to be lost upon feminists commentators who, on the one hand, want women in society to be treated the same as men yet, on the other hand, want men who are accused of committing crimes against women to be treated differently”
This is also another ridiculous point. What woman do you know that would ever want a more lenient sentence for a mother who raped her male child for ten years than for a man raping his female child for ten years. Both crimes would be seen as equally abhorrent. Additionally, if you read other comments on articles surrounding this case you will see many women showing their horror for the role of the mother in this for not standing by her daughter, anger is not directed only at the man.
Again you presume the worse opinions from women and feminists and fail to see that lenient sentencing in rape has no connection at all to women wanting things such as equal pay.
No I am not even remotely involved with any feminist advocacy group in Ireland. Your comments on this thread show a complete lack of sympathy for this woman and women in general who find themselves in the awful situation of being raped, you asked me to clarify why I thought this and I did.
And yes I do believe that men who are victims in these crimes are equally deserving of public support – again please stop assuming that your low opinion of women is accurate.
Typical shrill voice reaction from a feminist organisation. Abrogate basic human rights because ‘all men are evil’. This is the same organisation that wanted to abolish an accused’s right to cross-examine the complainant in a rape case (i.e. every element of her evidence would be admitted without challenge) a few years ago. An accused has a constitutional and conventional right to a fair trial which includes a right of appeal. Be careful what you wish for, you could find yourself before the Courts! Consider the position where a person is wrongly convicted and appeals. Under this proposal, the person will serve his sentence and by the time his appeal is heard, due to systemic delay, his sentence may be up. The appellate court reverses his conviction. He can’t get the time back, he sues the State for unlawful detention and we the taxpayer pay.
Under the existing system, the appeal court or, less usually, the trial court can grant bail pending an appeal
All men are not evil, just as all women are not evil. Where someone is wrongly convicted, they are quite entitled to sue the state, and yes, we the taxpayers foot the bill for that. Let someone who pleads not guilty be given bail, as until he/she is convicted/acquitted we don’t know if they are guilty or not. This man pleaded GUILTY, so there was no doubt he is responsible for his vile actions, and should have gone straight from the court to prison to begin his sentence.
He received a 12 year jail sentence, with the last 9 years suspended. He WILL go to jail for 3 years! He was simply granted bail to appeal against severity of sentence because of binding precedent decisions of the Court of Criminal Appeal which hold that it is not appropriate to send sick and elderly individuals to jail following conviction. The CCA will have to address those decisions in this appeal.
So now its feminist to be part of a group of people who help women overcome rape? Nobody said all men are evil. I’m sorry you have such a low opinion of women, I’m even sorrier for whatever poor woman ends up with you given your derogatory views of females.
This man pleaded guilty, nobody is saying that everyone should go straight to custody while appealing. Jail for three years only is also not good enough for ruining his daughters entire life.
The problem Barry is that 3 yrs isn’t long enough.
I happen to agree that 3 years is on the light side for an offence if this gravity, but my essential point is raw emotion should not rule reason. In a free and democratic society everybody, even the most morally reprehensible warranty, deserves a fair trial. Rape is an appalling crime, however I do not subscribe to the notion that people who are accused of a sexual offence should enjoy any less justice because it’s sex crime. This basic concept appears to be lost upon feminists commentators who, on the one hand, want women in society to be treated the same as men yet, on the other hand, want men who are accused of committing crimes against women to be treated differently. @ CABK I would have hoped that you had something positive to contribute to this debate rather than banal personal attacks. Please explain how you maintain my comments suggest that I have a low opinion of woman.
Happy to:
Typical shrill voice reaction from a feminist organisation. Abrogate basic human rights because ‘all men are evil’.
This is the same organisation that wanted to abolish an accused’s right to cross-examine the complainant in a rape case
He WILL go to jail for 3 years!
1) Derogatory comments about an organization that only try to help women who have been raped
2) Use of the word ‘shrill’ and ‘feminism’ in a derogatory context.
3) Implying that women think all men are evil and are hence that they will manipulate the system
4) Can you not see any rational in the organization suggesting to abolish the accused right’s to cross examine the complainant – although I agree with your point that some men may be falsely accused can you not at least empathize with how this was probably brought up to spare the woman the emotional torture of reliving and being examined on the rape and that this organization deals with genuine cases the vast majority of the time rather than this being some kind of evil plot against men….
5) Seeming to think that 3 years is any kind of suitable sentence for someone who raped his daughter for ten years.
@CABK You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that all women are feminists. They are not. Hence my critique of typical feminist diatribe such as the above article is not is derogatory of women, but of feminism and the women AND men who subscribe to that ideology generally. I will deal with your points as follows:
1) I have never questioned the excellent work carried out by RCNI for the victims of rape. What I do question is the appropriateness of RCNI lobbying for change, on the back of a populist mood, for fundamental changes to our criminal justice system which further erode the rights of an accused to a fair trial irrespective of the offence with which he has charged.
2) See above
3) I implied feminists are suspicious of men, not women
4) You prove my point! Thankfully, people in this country enjoy the presumption of innocence in a criminal trial and the prosecution has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Indeed, feminist organisations never publicly condemn women who are found to have made false allegations of rape and child sex abuse. Are men who are the victims of such crimes not equally deserving of public support?
@CABK I assume from your emotive comments that you are involved in one of the many feminist advocacy groups in Ireland. If so, would you care to comment on the appropriateness of the taxpayer funding certain of these organisations to advance feminist ideology when lobbying government in the absence of any state-funded male advocacy group to give the counterarguments.
He’s a misogynistic troll lads, might be best to ignore him.
Barry if you put as much time, effort and passion into setting up men’s advocacy groups as you do blaming feminists for not doing it for you, maybe there WOULD be a state-funded men’s advocacy group.
Maybe you’d be running it. Maybe you’d stop getting angry at women for being proactive in dealing with issues that affect them deeply, instead of putting their problems aside to deal with yours.
Exactly Dee.
Also Barry, you can critique feminism, or certain strands of feminism without being hostile and insulting about it. When someone sh*tes on about an article such as this being “feminist” it becomes painfully clear just how ignorant that person is about feminism in general. Everything about your tone makes you sound hostile towards women, which is why people are taking offence to what you’re saying.
What a remarkable personalised attack with lazy and incorrect assumptions being made about me. Is no feminist commentator prepared to engage in a rationale debate? What is being effectively advocated in this article is that the victims of rape, who are predominately women, should enjoy a higher status than the victims of every other type of serious crime. And correspondingly individuals accused of rape, who are predominately men, should not enjoy the same level of due process as those accused of any other serious crime. I fundamentally disagree with this feminist thesis. Everybody is equal before the law. The discourse on this subject in Ireland is skewed by the fact that taxpayer-funded feminist quangos lobby publicly elected officials to make sweeping changes to the criminal justice system which affect all of society, both men and women. If taxpayers have to fund, and I don’t believe they should, the National Women’s Council of Ireland, in the interests of justice there should
a National Men’s Council of Ireland to offer an alternative view. I’m not suggesting either side enjoys a monopoly on the truth, but a legislative decision which potentially affects us all is best arrived at after hearing both sides of story.
# Barry Sheehan
I have so much I would like to say to you and so many not so nice things I would like to say to you!!
as Nanny use to say,’ if you can not say any thing nice say nothing at all.’
Hope you can read between lines.
thanks patricia, lets us all stay safe.xxx
These judges have to be investageted on why they are handing down these sentences to rapest and child molesters its should be 15 years inprisonment for anyone who rapes someone or if anyone touches a child the justice system in this country is still so backwards ……
it makes me wonder why the judge in question would be so bold as to empathize with (and protect in my opinion) a child rapist…and i’m not alone in my suspicions.
you can get locked up in this country for using force defend yourself and your family but you can repeatedly rape and brutalize little children and walk out the doors of the courts of “justice” and back into society!!
this makes me so bloody angry!!!
your right penelope, lets just ignore him and focus on the real issue of getting justice for the victims out there.xxx
Hi guys, anyone who wishes to support ‘March For Justice’ find link below;
https://www.facebook.com/events/405305209558281/?notif_t=plan_user_invited
If a rapist goes out of jail and rapes again, who is responsible? Definitely the criminal,but how about the court that says his sentence was enough? That he was adequately rehabilitated ? Someone else’s head needs to roll as well, not just the criminals
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