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EUROZONE FINANCE MINISTERS have agreed to implement the so-called ‘Robin Hood Tax’, a small levy on financial transactions that is seen by many as a way of making the financial sector pay for the economic crisis.
European finance ministers yesterday gave approval to 11 nations to go-ahead with introducing the tax on financial transactions following an agreement under what is known as “enhanced co-operation”.
This is a measure rarely used that enables a minimum of nine EU nations to work together without the agreement of the entire 27-member bloc.
The tax was initially proposed by France and Germany and they have been joined by Austria, Belgium, Estonia, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain.
Ireland is not among these countries – the only one of the three bailed-out nations not to sign-up – with ministers here previously expressing concern that the introduction of the tax would harm employment prospects with jobs at the IFSC in Dublin seen to be particularly at risk.
Britain has also raised concerns that the tax would not make sense unless implemented on a global level.
Under the plans, a levy of 0.1 per cent would be placed on the value of any trade in shares or bonds, and 0.01 per cent levy would go on any financial derivative contract.
The 11 countries who have signed up to the measure will now require the European Commission to draft legislation enacting the measure which is also known as the Tobin tax after the economist who formulated it, Nobel laureate James Tobin.
“For the first time ever, the financial transaction tax will be applied at regional level,” said the EU’s tax commissioner Algirdas Semeta.
The tax aims to curb the market excesses that led to the 2008 global financial crisis but the notion failed to gain overall EU support with Britain vocal about concerns that it would harm investment prospects in the City of London.
Oxfam said that “the historic vote” of EU finance ministers sent “a clear message that Europe’s biggest economies are ready to make the financial sector pay to clear up the mess it helped to cause.”
- with reporting from AFP
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People want to know pretty quickly if the killing is gangland or just some random phyco killing people.
Well said Captain Kirk. The euphemism mightn’t be a great one but it cuts to the chase pretty quickly as to what kind of individual we’re dealing with. It’s all too easy to defend these gangland thugs on the basis of where they’re from when many people from these areas carve out perfectly successful, law-abiding lives for themselves.
When I hear that phrase I do not think “he deserved it” because no one should be judge, jury and executioner. I believe they made bad choices and too often in these poor areas it’s easier to make money doing illegal things rather than studying and maybe, maybe getting a good job where you have to pay taxes. It’s not hard to see why some young men go down this route but none deserve to die.
If someone is killed the public want to know if its because of a paramilitary attack, if its a criminal, if its an accident or some other tragedy – known to Gardai is ideal.. and i don’t see why the author has his knickers in a twist about it – it’s not convicting anyone it just gives Joe public an idea of what’s going on.
You are right Deborah. My brothers were taken out of school at 16 to work in supermarkets cos we were poor. They had the opportunity to train as electricians a few years later and my father denied them this chance cos he thought we couldnt afford it. They were devastated. This is the cr@p you deal with when you come from a deprived background. It wasnt long before they became “known to gardai”… it was minor stuff but its very frustrating when you have ambition but no support
Are they electricians now Sinead?
The point is the phrase is so vague that it could mean anything from gangland enforcer to cannabis dealer to someone who got picked up for drug use who is now clean. We have no idea.
No disrespect Sinead but it appears to me from what you’ve said that their grievance lies with the decisions taken by your father to deny them the opportunity of a trade. Plenty of others have emerged from disadvantaged backgrounds to establish successful professional lives in a range of areas. With regard to their subsequent involvement in crime causing them to become ‘known to Gardaí’ that was a result of their own personal choices. I’m from a disadvantaged Northside community, which in the 1980′s had a serious heroin problem, like many others. I’ve never been known to Gardaí and have carved a successful working life.
My point is, sometimes it’s easy for people to blame being disadvantaged, or being from a disadvantaged area, for poor personal and life choices. The responsibility for which lies with themselves.
Well done captain, this article was clearly above your limited comprehension. Stick with reading the Sunday world.
Sometimes, yes John. But Sinead’s point is still absolutely valid and I think your response is a little too simplistic. You take someone out of school to work in a supermarket then you have kneecapped them. You have also made them bitter and angry. It’s a well established fact that those that leave school early (mainly boys) rarely get back on the education ladder and rarely become professionals as they haven’t mastered the basics most of the rest of us take for granted.
The poor choices were mede for her brothers, and not by her brothers.
When they’re say 21 why don’t they go back to education then – there are a multitude of ways to better yourself – at some point you have to take responsibility for your own self. Too many people say ‘oh i’ve had it tough’ and then spend years repeating the same mantra.
John.. Its easier to become involved in crime because your choices in life are more limited. If there was organised crime in the area, they would have been easy targets. After some fights outside nightclubs, drink driving offences etc they copped theirselves on and left their jobs and set up a gardening business and did quite well for themselves. Its very possible to become successful coming from a poor background but you need support and inspiration John especially from family.
How can you live out of home with today’s rental market, hold down a job to pay for it, and pay for college fees on top of that? If you were living at home you could do it, if not, you’re pissing against the wind. Would you live at home with a father like that aged 21? I wouldn’t.
Then they could say involved in gangland activity.
@John Clarke
Well said and congratulations on taking personal responsibility, if only more people did the same…
@john Clarke. In essence I agree with you, but Sinead’s point is also valid. Kids who are successful need mentoring. If they don’t get it at home and if there are street gangs outside it would have to take exceptional strength of character to go it alone. Sinead’s brothers were the victims of short sighted (at best) parents. Without focus and a goal and the prospect of a better life through work, anything can happen to young vulnerable men. It’s why I first and foremost blame the parents for kids gone bad. Parents who don’t put their children first are the problem. Then it becomes inter generational. It’s why we have bad areas. It’s not society’s fault. It’s the fault of the bad apples who get housed there and infect decent people. Dysfunction is a cancer.
That one euphemism ‘known to gardai’ is uniquely Irish and I don’t think meant to convey any insult, rather, as the author said its message conveys a multitude. We know what it means. This person was a criminal, but it’s a somewhat polite way of saying it, usually about someone who is dead, and us Irish never speak ill of the dead. Even criminals.
But people do think “well he must have deserved it” or “live by the sword die by the sword” I know I do. It is easier sometimes to get involved in illegal things because sometimes no matter how hard you work, how honest you are, once they hear you are from Sheriff st or in my case Darndale you are labeled and the job or opportunity is gone.
When the press use the term “known to gardai”. They are not talking about people arrested for minor things. For them to label someone as that, they are career criminals or heavily involved in crime. The author is a whinge bag and is everything that’s wrong with the bleeding heart do gooders.
This is pretty universal. You can expect ‘well known’ at times. 10 years ago the road tolls at the bad accidents said a ‘insert county here’ native who was a GAA local hero / legend died tragically in a collision with four ‘non-nationals’ (who were about to get married/return home/ celebrate a significant birthday). Why are journalists moaning about other journalists in particularly long articles?
Paid as apprentices, roughly same as dole, pay increases year on year. Father couldn’t afford it? Afford what?.
Quiet right Marg,I would say a large proportion of the time it’s down to bad parenting and or bad examples being shown to kids. Monkey see monkey do. If my parents spend their lives surviving on welfare then I am much more likely to spend my lifetime on welfare as well. We have a lot of people in this country having kids,who quiet frankly should not be allowed have a goldfish. Since we cant prevent them from having kids,the only thing we can do is hold them accountable when those kids go off the rails and incentivise them to keep their kids in education etc. We have to stop incentivising them to just have more kids. This all has to be linked into the welfare system as money is the only thing that will make them change their ways. Jail means nothing to them.
Old Gabby.. Yes they could have done that. But my point really is they got bad advice from my father, they didnt have the belief they could do anything better than operate a till. Even when i left school at 17, he wanted to find a shop job for me but i refused. I did a fas course that gave me a grant of 30 a month which he thought was a total waste. I got a great job out of it and i am still doing the same work and love it. I just feel that a lot of parents have no plans for their kids re hobbies and education and its no wonder they get caught up in crime. As a parent, its so important to encourage your children and keep them busy and give them confidence. Some need more help than others
Well said. Where you start out in life does not have to be where you end up, but it takes good parenting, effort and strong will power to get there, even for people from affluent areas.
Rusty
Wrong
UK known to tge police
Germany Polizei bekannt
Pretty sure other countries use same expression
If Ray Burke or Seanie Fitz were shot on the street, would the media refer to them as “known to the Gardaí” as both men are? Highly unlikely.
Your missing the whole point of the Author’s article, what it boils down to is respect for the dead whatever background that is and the reasons why these young men take these paths in life. Like Frankie says its because of social conditions, prohibition, poverty and because inner city Dublin has been and always will be at the bottom of the list whoever is in Government. Gardai assume as do most people that all inner-city people are “inherently bad”, all labelled and stereotyped because of your postcode
I grew up in the inner city and I am now rearing a teenage boy in the inner city and its not easy, it’s hard, it was hard being a child growing up here and keeping out of trouble and its even harder being a mother trying to rear a decent human being because of other people’s ignorance. The inner city folk don’t have the same chances as the rest of Dublin, I even remember applying for jobs in the 80′s with a Dublin 1 postcode got you a no thank you letter and thats if they had the decency to even reply
Have some compassion because all these young men “known to Gardai” got into trouble for a reason but no one ever asks why. Frankie said that reporters should just say “known criminal”, “convicted drug-dealer”, “gangster” instead of the “Known to Gardai!” phrase because it”s an insult to the family they leave behind, whoever they are somebody loves them.
In Britain they use their version ‘known to the Police’ or ‘known to the authorities’. It’s a cowardly way to libel someone.
It’s not “libel” – it’s the truth!
You’re right Kirk. When we hear about deplorable violence like this in broad daylight, we deploy a coping mechanism – we need assurance that it can’t happen to us or the people we care about. But as more details have emerged about this, we’ve seen a staggering change of tone in the comments on this site. Headlines move from “gangland, known to Gardai” to “Innocent father of 3 murdered” and people are falling over themselves to adopt positions opposite to those they were trumpeting yesterday. As far as this article goes though – my first reaction was incredulity that anybody would start an article with a lengthy quote from his new buke, a picture of a mural of the aforementioned quote, and then to say of his own quote: “I think that’s pretty spot on”. My eyes rolled back in my head on reading that. But this article is pretty brilliant from that point onwards, he sees both sides of this argument, and he sizes them up wonderfully. Do I agree with everything he said? Nope. But I enjoyed reading his thoughts on the matter. I’d read more.
Aww the poor working ordinary decent criminal. Picked on by those evil law abiders. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
“Known to Gardai” means “lived by the sword”. Not ‘Deserved it”. Imagine if we lived in a world where gangland had a bigger cover to hide behind to do its dealings so that no one could be called “gangland”, or “known to Gardai”. Yes, there’s business people out there, from small, to medium to the big wigs, who think in exactly the same way as the men on bikes with guns, but at the end of the day after crossing them, you’ll still get to return to your family to bitch about them. One man today will not.
This man did not deserve death. But being “known to Gardai” helps us outsiders answer the biggest question: “Why?”
The innocent man who was shot dead yesterday was “known to Gardai”…does that mean he “lived by the sword”?! I don’t think so.
A few minor convictions does not mean you deserve a f*ckin bullet.
A few minor convictions Joe? did you know him and his criminal record? A few minor convictions still leaves a few victims.
I remember in the early ’90′s a rural Garda refused to sign my passport application saying; “Sure I don’t know who you are!”
To be fair, 10 minutes of simple research would tell you that the reason ‘known to Gardaí’ is used is to negate any prejudicial proceedings against anyone else involved in the case. If Gardaí went around saying so & so was a drug dealer/robber/gangland etc, and they arrest someone associated to that person, then there is the possibility in court that their defence could say he was prejudicially linked to the dead person, and your case could fall. There is also the very simple explanation that Gardaí are not going to spill the beans on what they know of a person simply because they’re now dead; that information could betray pathways to informants.
When I was young the guards knew all the young people. That because they lived in the local area, they were coaches in athletics football etc. It was old style community policing and people respected them as they were members of the community.
Why become criminals,
1 They don’t have to work hard to scrape every cent.
2 Robbing, selling drugs are get rich quick schemes.
3 They don’t want to better themselves with education they are happy getting rich quick.
4 They got mixed up with the wrong crowd.
5 Anyone who does have ambition to better themselves are subject to harassment and intimidation.
6 The parent/s didn’t do a good enough job. Or leave the area. Or instil a moral compass in them
7 They enjoy it.
8 They do it to feed an addiction.
9 They were neglected, Ill treated or abused by parent/s.
10 Self worth, not thinking they are good enough to get out.
11 Fear, due to intimidation / harassment / threats.
12 No respect for authority- nobody is going to tell them what to do.
I’m sure the list goes on and on.
have you ever listened to illegally downloaded music or not worn your seatbelt?
There is a big difference between not wearing a seat belt and gangland behaviour.
If you see I’m not criticising.
Just stating my observations. A lot of young people could be prevented from being serious criminals, thugs in the right settings.
As a law abiding citizen if I had the misfortune of being shot dead accidentally then I would want all news reports to inform people of my innocence/case of mistaken identity. The same should go the opposite way – if you’re a criminal and you get shot then you were known to Gardai. Mistaken Identity/known to Gardai are factual comments at either end of the spectrum and simply highlights in few words the ‘type’ of situation which occurred.
Frankie everyone has choices. You were intelligent enough to get yourself out of
the spiral of crime, you made that choice. But if you’re not so bright you’re not even going to know you have a choice. None if the guys who end up in the Joy wanted to be there I’m guessing, it’s a hazard of their way of life, not a consequence of crime. Would it be true to say these lads see larger society as a target and as the enemy because they’ll never be part of it? Surely education and some effort to include them in working society is the answer?
Its a vicious cycle, where you are brought up will often dictate how your life unfolds, many of these kids from deprived areas came from families with a history of crime and chronic unemployment, in these areas its hard to pick and choose who you grow up with, if your best friend gets involved in criminal activity good chance you will too, so the vicious cycle continues.
Dublin is no different to most cities be it Glasgow, Manchester, Naples etc they all have seriously deprived areas something society created so how does society go about fixing it?.
They don’t have chronic unemployment, they have chronic state sponsorship.. And no interest in changing
Err family history of been unemployed hence vicious cycle?
If this article is the general jist of the book, I think I’ll give it a miss. Frankie needs to loosen up a bit if he gets so easily offended by ‘known to gardai’.
Yeah he seems far less angry about the actions that get people known to Gardaí than he does about the phrase “known to Gardaí.”
Which one has a more detrimental effect on places like Dublin 7?
Frankie, do you want a burger to go with that chip?
I have to laugh at the author complaining about other journalists reports and then he goes off sensationally exaggerating talking about an “epidemic of garda corruption” and gardai “brutalising” working class people in such areas. Any chance that they’re just doing their jobs in areas that the illegal activity is more prevalent? If the media want to inform the public that the victim was known to gardai then they are entitled to do so. That “ugly little phrase ” indicates that the incident is possibly linked to organised crime not that they deserved it. The author would want to show a bit of impartiality himself.
I agree. It stinks of ‘what about them?’.
The Journal at its most blazingly hypocritical – YOU USED IT YOURSELF 3 ARTICLES DOWN!
Zero editorial clue on this site now.
Are you new to reading? It’s clearly a personal opinion piece by an individual contributor. The other article was a straightforward news report.
it’s an opinion piece.
Hi Andrew,
As Neal says above, this is an opinion piece by an external contributor. He has an argument to make about how the media handles these cases. He is, I presume, including ourselves in that criticism. We’re not going to shy away from that criticism and wanted to publish his point of view.
Thanks
Sinead
News Editor
Hi Sinead
Thanks for replying. I totally take it on good faith that this is an example of the impartiality of external contributors as you say.
Presumably – unless you completely disagree with him – this raises questions for yourselves about whether you continue with this phrase, and I will keep an eye out in interest.
It definitely was a surprise – and an apparent disconnect – to see you simultaneously using the same wording your contributor was objecting to. Lack of editorial control was an obvious possibility.
Neil – yes, I can read, this ability to read gave grounds to this valid query.
“Neil – yes, I can read”. Just not the word “Neal” apparently!
I would never go as far as saying that someone dying, as a result of their involvement with criminal activity, deserved it. But it is hard to sympathise with their plight.
I grew up in Finglas in the 1970,s and 1980,s. Knocking about the streets playing football and watching the stolen cars doing hand breakers and donuts and all of that lark. Some of the lads I knew then went on to some serious crime and it’s fair to say their folks neglected them from the start. Some of them are dead now however others lads from the same area went on to do very in life. If you’re a parent support your kids, make all the time you can for them be there for their football or whatever hobbies they choose. Looking back I can see now it made a huge difference. A young lad growing up in a deprived area is one thing but if he’s from an unsupportive or broken home the odds are not good. You could nearly tell back then how it was going to play out. That’s my own experience.
At some point you have to take responsibility for your item life abs stop blaming others
Own life. Flibbing text predict..
‘It’s not my fault that i’m a criminal’……that might wash in a third world country but not in the ‘Republic of Handouts’
Sorry not buying it…….
Great article and I have always thought about the person being shot. I’ve never met a person who was completely bad.
But the article seems to excuse poor decisions because of poverty or deprivation. I can’t really accept that. I’m from a working class background – with some of the problems and hardships that you hear as excuses in court. But my upbringing and culture precluded my involvement in crime.
When I worked in the North Inner City I saw great kids – intelligent, kind, funny – twisted and destroyed not by poverty or neglect, but by the sinister elements around them. And I often ask friends who smoke hash if they know the true cost of their habit.
It’s time to legalise.
@martin. Must be very distressing to watch good kids go twisted by the “sinister” elements around them. To live or work in that environment must be soul destroying. Legalising drugs sure would take one huge variable out of this particular equation. It could save lives both literally and figuratively. The drugs industry needs to be destroyed. There really is only one way to it. Legalise it.
How will legalizing drugs solve any problems you have people looking for cigarettes to be banned and then you have other people looking for alcohol to be banned and then look for illegal drugs to be legalized it’s madness criminals will always find way of making money whether it’s drugs or something else. Prison reviews and overhauls is what I think is needed and turn them into places hardened criminals do not want to go back to.
Pat, madness is doing the same thing by over and over again expecting a different result.
I’m not saying do the same thing did you not read my comment what I’m saying is, is make prison an insufferable hellhole and not the hotel it is to hardened criminals, so that when they leave they will actually think twice about what they do so that they don’t go back in. this craic of murders and rapists and drug dealers getting PlayStations and TV and the likes is nonsense fit as many of the f*****rs in a cell as is physically possible, to me these major criminals gave up their “human rights” the day they denied someone else theirs by killing them, or raping them or whatever disgusting thing they did, deter people don’t soften laws on them
It’s a real shame that perfectly valid comments are being deleted here because they don’t support Mr Gaffneys argument.
Ye known to garda is a joke of a phrase, a garda gave me a parking ticket last week, am I known to gardai now??
Stay away from crime and a person will not be known to the Garda
known to the gardaí only for minor offences.
Remember the Guards used that phrase after a drunk driving guard knocked down and killed a pedestrian in Lucan about 10 years ago… it was a lie to cover their drunk driving colleague.
“Burgler” enough for me to jump & clip me heals together.. No harm taking a few of these out in mistaken identity..
How was it a lie? He WAS known to them.
He was known to Gardai only because a Garda drove over him.
They tried to give the impression that an innocent pedestrian with no criminal history was somehow linked to crime.
While he was lying in the middle of the road at five in the morning?
They’re going to be known to gardai for a long time yet because the gardai are afraid of these scmbags and their still roaming the streets doing Wat they like..but if the ordinary five eight parked his car wrong,he’d be done straight away..some country…
Not worthy of comment.
Why? He makes a perfectly valid case and sets out his stall, and justifications for doing so. He does however, neatly miss important points too when presenting his case.
“Because of social conditions, because of prohibition, because of poverty.” Fair enough. But he misses the elephant in the room as they always do.
Because of parenting. That’s the first on the list of problems, not last. Plenty of people came from those conditions and held it together because they had a good upbringing despite their circumstances.
The author should read up on 1940′s and 50′s Ireland where things were a hell of a lot worse than today and the poverty levels off the charts for large swathes of the population. It would make the lowest socioeconomic groups of today look like seriously rich and well off people without a care in the world.
Only difference is. there was more a community then and people helped each other out as everyone was in the same boat. Today, there are far less in that boat by comparison to the general population and so they feel victimised and marginalised.
And i agree with him on his take on “known to Gardai”. Reporters should either put up, or shut up.
And plenty of people came from well-to-do backgrounds and imploded or went downhill and into criminality. Why? Parenting usually.
He blamed everyone else for their criminality.. If its so easy to turn to crime because of their circumstances, why doesn’t everyone do it from those areas?? It’s parenting and personal responsibility, but the author puts it all on gardai.
He’s right to call out the cops too. I’ve seen it many times myself. In fact I’ve often seen cops badgering people in a courtroom and the judge watching it ffs. They were scrotes tbh, but they were still badgering and heckling them in a courtroom and the judge thought nothing of it.
We often turn a blind eye to those in middle class backgrounds and give them the benefit of Garda discretion (something we are losing to the detriment of society). If however you came from a family and had siblings involved in trouble, you too are going to be targeted and tarred with the same brush.
No you’re not. ‘You’re not your brothers keeper’ is a phrase used often and is socially accepted and respected. Siblings often go down different paths and people realise and acknowledge this.
The fact is…if they are criminals, or “known to the Gardaí”, we don’t care about them. These are people that make other people’s lives a misery. Do they deserve to be shot? Maybe not, at least not in all cases. But, they certainly do not deserve our sympathy. I’ll reserve that for their law abiding victims.
Hey King Tut there is a knock at your door right now I think its the Gardai looking for your son in relation to a crime?.
Boyd, I keep telling my six year old not to be playing cops and robbers in the schoolyard! He’s on the slippery slope alright.
It could happen to anyone Tut, even having a stable home and happy childhood is no guarantee that the Gardai won’t come knocking at your door over your son or daughter, doesn’t mean they will end up in a life of crime.
I grew up in the inner city. I went to a “rough” school. My family did not have money to spare. I witnessed many a scrote dive head first down the slippery slope. They chose that path. Just like the very many decent lads who chose NOT to steal, do drugs, assault or whatever. I refuse to have sympathy for these low-lifes who chose their lifestyle.
Of course Tut there are many from rough areas that grew up unscathed and done well for themselves, but is it just as simple as a life choice?, some are bred into a family with a history of crime, broken homes, violent alcoholic fathers, others might try Heroin for the first time for kicks but then find out its a habit that sticks all of a sudden they’re begging and stealing to feed the habit, basically there are many reasons how some end up in a life of crime, some rehabilitate themselves like the author, and yes of course there are some who do actually choose a life of crime without any contributory factors.
Well if you’ve no sympathy maybe try get an understanding of the very real (there’s a huge amount of research in the area) and complex sociological reasons behind why people from lower socio economic backgrounds are less educated, less healthy, less happy and more likely to end up in prison? Maybe if policy was based around lowering inequality and not creating a situation that allows these issues to flourish rather than stupid pointless anecdotes and populist “personal responsibility/live by the sword…” Clichés things might be different. You want to talk about choice? What about the society that chooses to leave a huge proportion of its citizens behind to rot? That chooses inequality rather than inclusiveness? And it’s not like poor people are the only people this country has a history of marginalizing, despite the fact that it affects our society as a whole!
Being a “criminal” can cover a lot though. Underpaying taxes is a crime, illegally downloading music is a crime, use of any illegal drugs is a crime, travelling by train/Luas/bus without a valid ticket is a crime. I would say more than half the population have committed SOME crime in their lifetime and it’s really just luck whether they get charged with it or not. Now, I suspect that when that particular phrase is used, it rarely means “he didn’t pay his water charges” or “he downloaded music illegally,” but to say you don’t care about anybody who ever committed any crime whatsoever… That wouldn’t leave you many people to care about. And most of the “victims” have probably broken a law at some point too, so they are not technically “law-abiding” either.
How can you expect Irish people to exhibit traits they don’t have. We don’t behave in a direct and honest fashion. There are many historical and cultural reasons for this. Being two faced and dishonest was necessary during colonial occupation. It will take many more years for this to change ( if ever), a bit like getting rid of religion and the 8th amendment. Still at least the climate is good…..,,
Sorry but that is bull. In every city you get troublesome areas. Not just Ireland, being stamped as a troublesome area doesn’t help, due to the – if you think I’m trouble I’ll give you trouble mentality.
Physiologically they are living up the the areas name. It’s easier to be the person one expects, than one they don’t.
Crap
Still nothing in the media about the Garda up on charges for selling Coke .There keeping this well covered up.
The media is the only place I’ve seen reports on that matter
I’m sure it’s well known in the Gardaí.
It’s been in the media Stephen, do you take the tinfoil hat off when in shower?
It was in all national newspapers yesterday, in sure that’s where you read it or have you personal involvement in the story
6.01 news yesterday evening pal.
The devaluing of a human life by the phrase “known to gardai” is a disservice not only to the deceased but to society as a whole. Over the past two decades the media has become a mouthpiece for unaccountable claims that reduce our justice system to nothing more than guilt by association based upon the opinion of an unknown Garda source.
I would be 99% sure the deceased was a thug and contributed fu€k all to society! So no major loss here at all!
You do realise you can look up court records when you get the name of a person and find out their convictions in about 10 minutes. Newspapers keep track and store information on all court convictions so that they build a file on ppl so they have information when they go to print without need for any other sources
“What about the politicians who did nothing to address generations of inner-city deprivation” this statement sums up why certain areas are always deprived they always look to other people to sort out their problems
The lack of empathy from people in this forum is so sickening. Excellent article.
It’s bad alright. Generation of Young Fine Gaelers with zero empathy. Sociopaths.
I’d love to know how your attributing the lack of empathy to Fine Gael supporters?
from 1st hand experience of them – won’t be long until we see the defence of “affluence” being raised in our two-tier society.
“I’d love to know how your attributing the lack of empathy to Fine Gael supporters?”
Follow any of them on Twitter and it becomes apparent very quickly.
Do speak for yourself please, Tosser. This is a biased article, with little balance & clouded by this chap’s personal experiences. No FG supporter here.
‘Known to gardai’ the phrase that makes us all feel safer. That allows us to sit on our high horses and judge those that are no longer here to defend themselves. Allows us to be sure in the knowledge that no matter what the circumstances, we would never find ourselves in that situation. Allows us to turn a blind eye and not worry about what we can do to make things better. Allows us to comment ‘ah sure what do you expect’ and go back to our daily lives without batting an eyelid. Sure it’s no wonder the media favour the phrase when it’s exactly what we want to hear.
Every time the phrase “In my novel” rears its ugly head and is a clickable link I know the “news article” is an ad in disguise. We even got an artists impression of the book cover so we can pick it out of an ID parade in Easons, handy that.
I certainly won’t be picking it up anyway. I found this article very useful insofar as I now know to keep well away from this authors work.
S@umbag seems to be offensive language under this article…populist nonsense, we all know the class of human living in these areas, breeding like rabbits..not a job between them..their young not in school, out robbing and learning their trade…come off it author get off your high horse no one buys it
Well you certainly won’t find a name like “Ingo Weinhold” in the north inner city thats a fact!.
If they are known to gardai,why don’t the gardai arrest them..how long do they have to known for??
Err previous arrests and convictions will generally get you well known to the Gardai David.
An arresr means you were suspected of something. It doesn’t mean you did it.
Fair enough Neal but you get my point?.
Come on now Neal. Guards can’t make an arrest without clear proof so if you are arrested there is a pretty good chance you did something wrong. They don’t go about arresting people for no reason.
Karen, if you’re ever called for jury duty please, for the love of god, find an excuse not to go.
I think its fair enough to say he was known to the police. Then people can care a lot less. Why? Because these are engaged in criminality and doing nothing productive with their lives except making other peoples a misery. If we lose one? Who cares? Maybe you do but I certainly dont. One less man on social welfare, one less criminal on the streets.
He’s not “Known to Gardaí”, he’s a very naughty boy!
Not a pleasant article at all. The reason it’s “known to Gardai” is because the victim may well be a bad guy, drug dealer etc but his family may have no connection to crime. It’s a nicer way for the innocent family members to hear about it first. Its out of respect for the innocent family members. I’m surprised that a journalist has made an article about this. Ask any Garda and they would have told you.
Unfortunately known to gardai and knowing gardai is two different things. The latter can get fines penalty points quashed. The former makes you a target for top quality journalism.
I’m sick to the death o ppl blaming their surroundings n social circle for turnin out criminal i grew up off the lower Ormeau rd in Belfast i worked hard n kept my self outa trouble, i saw alot o my muckers end up in jail because they CHOSE to break the law I’m sick o ppl using horse sh*’re psychology to try n worm their way out o personal responsibility I’m sick o the circumstances n the parents being blamed for ppl making bad choices, my brother’s n I worked hard n were afraid to shame our family name, we loved n feared our Da n would rather have gone w/o than blacken his name we respected our neighbours not to steal from them or do anything that would cause our family grief so maybe just maybe many o these individuals had chosen not to commit criminal acts then they wouldnt have ended up deas n known to gardaí.
Love the article Frankie and agree with and respect everything you say. But I also notice that your book is available in all good bookshops. Does that mean I should walk out of any bookshop which for some reason doesn’t stock your book? Or would that be a similar, even if not as damaging, abuse of language?
Your not to buy it it any bookshop that’s not known to The Guardiani
This is also part of the reason crime is on the rise eijets like this trying to justify criminals actions as something harmless and that they are to be pitied rather than scorned, I’m not going to apologize for not felling sorry for someone who got shot that would rob me or shoot me or many other things just to make a quick buck. don’t defend them it only makes them fell more justified in what they do
I’d prefer that every person that was killed by violence or any other type of crime to be ‘known to Gardaí’
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. I think it’s sad that an obviously intellectual man tries to get a pity party going for any “known to Garda” criminals. Enough is enough, these criminals are ruining society and it makes me very happy that the Garda know exactly who they are so they can be watched and observed
#StopCrimeShaming :)
Well said Frankie. It is the negative connotation and salacious ambiguity surrounding the phrase that seduces the tabloid writer/reader. But of course ‘known to gardai’ could also mean; penalty points for breaking a red light. Journalist: ‘Do you know this person?’ Gardai: ‘Yes we know this person’ Printed: ‘Known to Gardai’
The middle class professionals who snort cocaine every weekend are criminals through their purchasing of an illegal drug. But there’s no chance of a Drug Squad bust in a bar or nightclub around the Dublin 2, 4, 6 areas. Can’t have the sons and daughters of barristers and bankers arrested.
But no problem with the people who sell them the drugs being shot dead every few weeks.
Ireland is very broken. Social Apartheid is rampant and it’s getting worse since Fine Gael came to office.
Thos is the best piece I’ve read on this site in a long time. Could somebody please send it to Paul Reynolds?
The man is right look at the front page of the rag the sun innocent drug addict if it was Dublin 4 it’d be innocent man killed
Listen to this clown on the last word today, clearly a biased writer with a major chip on his shoulder towards the Gardai and no wonder with his history.
You can’t tar 12,000 with one brush.
You also can’t give cheek to the Gardai and expect nothing in return, these guys literally put their life on the line daily.
Story lost any credibility it had after I listened to Frankie on the last word on TodayFM today.
Certainly won’t be buying any books of his.
A good, sad, article – thank you
Working class young men… Really
What a terrible article! Is the “journalist” concerned having a rant at Gardai or other journalists who use the term “known to Gardai”? The article was followed up by an equally poor interview on Matt Coopers show on Today FM. I’ve never seen or heard any Garda of any rank use this term on TV/Radio or in print – its a term used by journalists only in my experience. What other sources would he like journalists to use for insight into crime stories? Whats the “epidemic of corruption” uncovered recently within the Gardai that he talks about? The corruption that abounds in the Gardai is of the political variety in relation to promotions at the top end. I don’t think thats what he’s referring to – but who knows what he means amongst all of his prejudices/chips on his shoulder. All I see is a crappy journalist promoting his crappy book.
So…a member of the media has written a piece saying that it’s somehow the fault of the Gardai that the media use a certain phrase when they report crime.
Frankie, you make choices no matter where you come from.
Why should the gardai respect young guys that constantly break the laws of this country.
If you want respect, EARN IT!
You live by the sword, you die by the sword.
I applaud the author.
Good article with points well made.
Another frequently used Irish circumlocution is in relation to mental health. When many people speak of someone who is depressed (that’s one in five of us at some stage in our lives) the phrase used is “his nerves are at him”
It’s just a phrase man, get over it. No need to make a big deal out of nothing.
I’ve read through most comments and as usual the heart of the matter is lost and truly only those living in these situations gets it , is it not tru that garda comments of known to garda of when they come into these areas we talk about with no regard for people living there that cause people to grow up with a chip on shoulder as people would say and can’t help but being known to garda , also I’ve said it many times the clergy have a lot to answer for what’s happening with modern day Ireland as when in conjunction with garda and teaching institutions the cover up in terrible cruelty that’s came to light yrs after, : say it was ur da who stole a bita bread to feed the family and was caught shipped off to dangen and the likes him as a kid seen abuse his friends etc his own crime that put him in that place was done outta survival but he sees the clergy the top people that others upheld in high esteem treating people terrible he grows up has to deal with that injustice then can’t handle what happened etc drinks to block it out ends up with a family but through spiraling alcoholism beats on his family the children grow up the same and life repeats itself, I’m tired of reading well just be like me try shake it off pick urself up be like me do something to better urself some I think have been cursed from day they were born and some are not strong enough to shake off the shackles of society but I hope that scene that somebody commented when in the tenement days when people didn’t have anything to their names but helped with their hearts is whats needed more in communities rather then the broad brush of painting everyone in the same terms that we see in newspapers today ” known to garda” etc
Political Correctness ignores reality.
Modern life and structures that create the Urban life creates this but the fact is evil people are evil and they enjoy being evil, they find excuses for it but they are evil because it makes them feel in control and that is what they want?
Fair play to you Frankie, I’m a youth worker in the city and have seen how young people are treated by some cops, and also the lure of drug dealing as an economic necessity and a spill over from generational poverty, oppression and its manifestation of drug addiction.
Also I was a young person in west Dublin where many of my friends, neighbours and class mates died of addiction, and I also know fellas who were shot.
I was touched by this article because I also know countless people who have survived and thrived but may be carrying convictions from when they where young, so I agree, to talk in the terms the media use to describe incidents like this, or to demeen drug users or young poeple in other ways I find apauling, particularly the red top newspapers and Chris Barry etc and other phone shows that deemonise working class people. And, like you said they don’t mention the more damaging crime ie corruption higher up in this state.
An example Brian Cowan got appointed to the board of topaz and the beacon hospital all after he got voted out. He was a former finance and health minister. Any reporter worth his/her salt would be chasing stuff like this up. Not demonize people who can’t fight back.
I really find it disgusting, someone’s kid, father brother. It’s just wrong.
Maybe if the Gardai were indepently ecamined instead of doing it themselves, there might be more respect for them. It doesn’t seem plausible that so many people in one employment can be without problems. Independent overview would definitely quell any suspicion surely.
I wouldn’t say that’s very true
I remember he auld saying ” you can take the man out of the bog, but you can’t take the bog out of the man”.
Yes I understand what he’s saying but really who is raising all their offspring !
Great write-up Frankie Gaffney – well done.
Hey Kirk! Is there any chance you could beam back to outer space? Please!
a nasty comment for sure but……don’t you have to be known to the Gardai to get a passport. So that means everyone is “known to the gardai”…’
The disdain that this journalist holds for the gardai is obvious in this article, and it actually detracts from the article itself which is a shame. The expression “known to gardai” is a universally used phrase, albeit tailored to each country. I am quite unsure why the author has his knickers in a twist over this one! I think the gardai do a fantastic job in this country & it would serve this chap well if he didn’t tar the entire force by the few bad apples that he has met in his short life. If you stay out of trouble, you’ll not be known to the gardai!
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