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WHEN MY DAUGHTER Beth was first born I received one monthly payment of €166 before it was reduced. I didn’t pay much attention to the drop in the child benefit then as I did think it was a very high payment. According to my mother, back in the 80s child benefit was a fraction of what was received now. I felt lucky to have the payment.
Even last year, when it was reduced further to €140 for the first child I didn’t worry about it too much. Having €10 less a month wasn’t really going to make much of a difference to me. However, this year, there is another €10 per month gone from my monthly budget. Since Beth was born, there has been a total of €36 per month reduction and she’s only three. Although I’m not headed for the poor house I am constantly making cuts and living frugally.
While I understand there are cuts to be made I would like to have seen a lot more thought put into it. Surely an across-the-board cut on child benefit was not the best answer. Yes, it was the easiest with no extra admin costs but there are many families that are depending on child benefit to get them through the month.
What I would have preferred to have seen in Budget 2013 was a proper look at how family services could be improved so that a reduction in the child benefit would not mean as much – things like subsidised childcare and education costs for all kids. The cost of childcare is a real barrier for people who want to get back out into the work place but in reality, childcare costs would take all of, and in some cases more than, their wages. Working for a loss while you are already struggling to put food on the table is just not feasible.
I asked three other mums to tell me how it has affected them. They are all in very different situations – which shows that cutting everyone simply wasn’t fair.
Deborah, a working mum of one, wasn’t worried about money when her son was born but things have changed. She told me:
The drastic reduction in my take home pay while on maternity leave was the first clue. Although we had savings, having a good salary reduced to €262 per week maternity benefit for six months certainly took its toll. Our ‘good’ salaries were also getting eaten up by extra taxes such as the household charge and the increase in motor tax and increased rates for petrol, heating oil, and electricity.
Another mother is Alison, a mum to three kids and is down €38 per month. She has been finding things difficult for the last few years, but January was particularly bad. She told me that even though many people are broke just after Christmas, she believes that €38 would have made a big difference to her. Alison said:
I hate telling the kids I’ve no food there. Now, have to say, this is the first time it has been this bad. I don’t bring the kids anywhere these days as we have no money. If we hadn’t of bought this house that is costing us all we have then I’d have left Ireland by now.
Siobhan, another mother affected by the recent cuts, runs a local parenting website called Mumstown. She finds it hard to swallow that the government have spent €23m on the Poolbeg incinerator project, which was abandoned, and €26m on the children’s hospital before the location was changed. The wasting of so much money and the taking of money from those who need it is something that bothers her a lot.
Siobhan told me:
For the first and second child the cut was €10 which was bad enough each but for the third child it was €18 and the fourth, fifth, sixth and subsequent children it was €20 each. So a family with four children lost €58 and a family with 5 children lost €78. It’s a big cut in one go and has had a serious impact on many families.
She said the fact they cut the back to school allowance so much during the summer hurt families too, adding that she had very little faith in the government:
When Labour canvassed for our votes they swore they would tackle the mortgage crisis and not touch children’s allowance and they blatantly lied about both those issues. Despite all the petitions, marches they ignore the ordinary people and do what they want.
The child benefit cuts that came into effect this month have made a difference to a lot of families. My situation, and the situations of my friends mentioned here is testament that everyone’s circumstances are different. The speculation is that cuts will continue to be made until there is a flat rate of €100 per child. These cuts will have a detrimental effect on the children in our society if there aren’t improvements made in other areas like childcare and education.
It’s easy for ministers on high salaries to ignore the importance of child benefit to families. In most cases, I believe they are so far removed from the person on the street they have no idea how badly off people are and what a difference this particular cut makes. We could argue about means testing the payment, but the government would probably use admin costs as a reason not to implement it.
There are many groups on Facebook and other social media sites still discussing cuts and organising protests. I, for one, will be involved. Don’t just complain, stand up and be counted.
Nessa Toale is a single mother and a writer. Her book is called The Secret Beneath Bleeker Avenue. She also writes a blog: Life, love and the pursuit of a crawling baby. More information can be found on her Facebook Page here. To read more articles by Nessa click here.
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Although me and my husband both work and have reasonably good salaries I find child benefit essential. We have a high mortgage and child care costs so our disposable income is tiny. Last week a doctors visit and prescription for my daughter cost €100, which I honestly wouldn’t have been able to afford without child benefit. It covers school costs, clothes, shoes, crèche and lessons. Well it doesn’t come close to covering them but it helps. I wouldn’t be adverse to a system which instead of cash gives free GP care, school books and subsidised childcare. Child benefit is lower in UK but they have some of these benefits. It’s stupid to say people shouldn’t have children if they can’t afford them. Times were much better when I had my kids, I couldnt have foreseen this crash and to be honest I would have chosen to have children anyway, it’s a real drive for most people just as strong as the drive for food, shelter etc. I would be miserable if I was without my kids.
We are in the same position as you. Both work full time while paying childcare. There is nothing left at the end of the month.
We will not be able to continue to pay our bills when the property tax comes into force, not mentioning water charges etc. if our mortgage rate goes up we will have to approach our bank to see about reducing our mortgage payments.
When we had our children our financial situation was a lot better than it was now. We have both had pay cuts and we are entitled to nothing bar child benefit.
In our house it goes towards clothes, childcare and if we are lucky enough a trip to the zoo/cinema/play centre once a month.
The middle income earners in this country simply cannot take anymore hits. Enough is enough. We are on our knees as it is, don’t kick us while we are already down. We’re just about surviving, we’re not living!
Your big mortgage is your doing. Don’t expect tge state to subsidize your bad investment.
@ moneymaid. Try going for a walk in the woods instead of possibly the three most expensive child recreational activities you can find. No surprised you are broke. You possibly buy branded food and toiletries also.
Simon’s right, your living beyond your means. And spending the child benefit on trips to the cinema is certainly not what it was intended for.
Your clearly not on your knees, just greedy for the plush life you’ve decided you and your kids deserve.
My house wasn’t a bad investment, it’s a very modest 3 bed in an area a lot of my friends wouldn’t have considered living in but I wasn’t comfortable borrowing 300 grand for a house, I cut my cloth and am lucky it’s a nice estate and we are happy living here. I’m glad I bought when I did despite its drop in value, it’s still a big mortgage though for us. We are all just doing our best and its a shame people are so bitter about struggling families getting child benefit when there are so many injustices and money wasted in this country to actually get mad about.
We have 3 kids all in primary school. Both myself & my wife are working full time Our combined income is less than that paid to each of our TD’s, let alone when you add the €15K in unvouched expenses they receive. Between us we have received 1 pay increase in the last 5 years, 2% last October, already gone in tax increases. We know we are lucky as we are both still working. We know we are better off than a lot of people including some family members.
However we feel sorry for our local TD pub owner & his full time teacher wife. It must be unbelievably hard for them. We simply have no idea how they can afford the 5 boarding schools educations they are forced to provide for their children!
If you consider Lidl/Aldi branded food then yea, we go mad every week in the supermarket!
Stupid comment.
Just wondering if I would be better off on the dole, after all my mortgage is going up, children allowance getting cut and paying more tax as I have lost my medical card. Let’s not forget property tax. All in a small space of time.
It’s tough here earning a small wage and having mouths to feed. Better start growing my own food ( don’t tell the goverment they might tax that!!!) I am glad I am not self employed, the gov hate them.
Welcome to the ‘working poor brigade’ the artist formally known as the middle class.
The government has no business giving charity, and that is exactly what this is. The government exists to run the country, not to bail out negligent parents. (or bankers for that matter)
John ‘Diggin’ . . . . . . a hole.
How much more can they take and this is before we have to start paying water and property rates
DOnt pay them!
I don’t intend to but from what I know they’ll take from wages :(
The 1916 Proclamation declares that the Republic will cherish all the children of the nation equally, yet as we approach its centenary, this FG/Lab Govt seems determined to no longer do this, as now the children of working Middle Ireland (ie the people who get out of bed every day to work, who pay for everything themselves and who are already struggling) are now to receive less than the children of parents who have never worked, and never contributed anything to society.
It’s time the tax payers of Ireland stand up, and tell Enda Kenny enough is enough, Middle Ireland can’t give any more.
Never thought I’d agree with a FF man. Well said.
You can cherish something without subsidizing its existence.
@stephen- how shameless are you?? Is that the same 1916 declaration Fianna Fáil sold out when they surrendered our sovereignty by inviting in the Troika? And these cuts you lambast, these are the same cuts that are only required because of the stunning economic ineptitude of the Ahern and Cowen Governments? Yes? Well then really you should just be sitting there quietly with a little white sign in your hands which reads: “Once again….we’re sorry.”
John, me calling you fat is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than the shite you’re going on with.
You sir are a troll and a bad one at that consider yourself schooled.
Nom nom nom nom.
So my opinions are shite and I’m a troll if I don’t go with the crowd? Now maybe you can see why nothing changes in this country. Your mocked if you present a different opinion or idea to the status quo.
Your opinions are shite, and you are a troll !! There’s going against the grain, and then there’s just been a down right idiot! Look at the remarks people make re: your comments, and the red thumbs ! I’m sure your big enough and ugly enough to take them on the chin, but your just a stain on the jocks of people reading and commenting on this site to be honest!
….and that’s saying something.
Stephen ‘cherish all the children of the nation equally’ surely can not be taken in the literal sense as only children, more it should be taken as treating all people. Part quoting a near century old speech is a fairly hollow argument, maybe it is time we all grew up and instead of living by a vision of the early 20th century, we should decide what our own vision of the future is.
Frank and Ciaran, it’s past your bedtime.
Try harder.
Why? Are ye worth it?
Let’s break it down a bit as when you mention SW here everybody is aghast. Married couple with mortgage and kids, one parent working = screwed.
Unmarried couple living (but not living) together in rented accommodation, rent allowance and all single parent benefits. partner working = sound. Now I know I’ll get lots and lots of red thumbs but that is not what I think, it’s what I know as I have two friends in this position. Something very wrong when couples who marry buy house and have kids are effectively punished for it. Very unfair system.
I don’t have kids and I never have had any. Despite this, I am convinced of the following:
1. The amount of the children’ allowance goes nowhere close to the actual cost of child care.
2. Children’s allowances benefit children.
3. Reduction in Children’s allowances will adversely affect child welfare.
4. Of all the items income tax funds, children’s allowances is one of the public expenditure items that makes me feel good about paying income tax.
5. Children’s allowances help mitigate against real poverty.
6. Further reduction will adversely impact on the coping classes.
Of all of the proposed austerity measures this is one of the more negative ones.
I can see benefit in setting a high threshold of income above which children’s allowances should not be qualified for. That threshold needs careful assessment.
Well Said
John Duggan u tosser.there is no future with out children. I just hope u don’t spawn any in that pond u float around in.looking after children is lookin after all our futures.either future tax payers or tax burdens.
Do you still take the monthly children’s allowance??
No, I am the one man in the country who doesn’t take free money. Of course I do.
I’m of the opinion it’s better for me to spend on the SKY subscription for my kids playroom than some junky to shoot it up his arm.
So all your ranting and raving about how your well off and how people are living beyond their means and you pay off your Sky with your children’s allowance!! Nice one! Brains to burn!
Wow, you didn’t even read my post, just skimmed for key words. The childrens allowance is the only credit to a bank account set up to deal with the SKY subs for my kids playroom and are payed directly into it every month. The subs are then debited from the account directly to SKY.
I never touch the money and this arrangement is for efficiency. I could certainly afford to pay it with the other SKY subs (multi-room only covers 2 rooms, so I need more than 1 subscription) directly from my account, but this way is just easier. Or I could burn the money, either way it’s none of your concern.
What about the Polish etc geting child benefit money for kid’s not even in the country!!
Agreed. Only 4 countries in the EU pay welfare to parents whose kids are non resident in the state.
have you seen proof of this ?
What more proof do you need? It’s a well known fact that a lot of our Eastern European Neighbours (Residents) Collect for children that are not present in this Banana republic it’s a complete farce!
@ Emma. I guarantee he hasn’t a shred of proof. Plus I know plenty of Irish people fiddling the system. Lets Start with them.
Darren…’well known fact’…source?
People need to realise it’s a privilege and not a right. Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them but if you do, don’t ask me to help you feed and clothe them.
Tell me John,who will feed and clothe you when you’re old and decrepit?
Do the government have the right to attack the most vunerable in society and give themselves massive pensions
John it’s sad that a comment like yours follows this story.just to buy in to your “opinion”.some people did have money and planned for a family but are in a really tough place now.but there are people that still save up the child support to pay for a holiday/fancy clothes etc..as they really don’t need the benefit.and then there are people living on cornflakes. In my opinion, your opinion came from the same place your sun shines!
Just two observations John: Did it ever occur to you that people might have had these children when they could afford it? And more important: are you saying the having children is only for those who are well off?
Yes it is a privilege. But people’s life circumstances change.
Life is not black and white, life events such as death, bad health and relationship breakdown affects all families regardless of their financial position. If everyone decided not to have children in case one of the above happened, no child would be born!
As a mother, you will never have enough money to rear a child!!
John you look well fed. Add clothes to that (by surface area) you must be loaded…
Every child born has a right to be cared for, fed, housed and looked after. If we don’t look after our children, society will end. The most primitive societies realised this and communities all supported and cared for their young. Children are not just a personal choice but the most essential raison d’etre for our society. We as a society need to value children and those that care for them. Whether you choose to have children or not, it is just as essential to your well being that people continue to have children. Why on earth would you assume you shouldn’t bear some of this essential cost. Also, we should look at child care as a right of the child, and therefore every citizen now living received this care (or they would not have survived), we now have a responsibility to ensure that we repay this to the children now being born.
Maybe those who work but dont have kids should get a lump sum back at a certain stage and they should also insist they get refunded for the spouse and child pension contribution they have to make to the pension scheme.
Louise, some people dont have kids because they cant afford them.
My missus and I would love more kids but we cannot afford them. Kids are a lifestyle choice.
Why should other people be forced to pay for that?
They are paying their taxes you idiot, and if everyone who couldn’t afford to have kids didnt have them, well we would have a rightly unbalanced society wouldn’t we! And you would have no one to wipe your ‘butt’ when you need one!! Stop being so condescending!
What a stupid comment. Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them… I can’t afford ex t-bags and presidents pensions. Guess I better not have any more greedy ex ministers. Tossers like you make this hole of a country worse. Direct your bitterness at the gombeens who pump money into a big black hole and leave the next generations of kids alone. They’ve already been sold out ffs!!
@Brian – my pension and savings will look after me as my wages do now. I do not expect nor would I feel right living on state hand-outs.
The government is the people, and the people have no obligation towards each-other.
@Frank – My financial situation is irrelevant, but I could live quite comfortably without the kids benefits, thank you very much.
No one hopefully!
@Brianoneill No one I hope!
Who is going to feed and clothe our generation as we get older if we don’t have kids? The meagre childrens allowance was intended to encourage couples to have children so that we don’t turn into Germany with no youth and foreigners soon to outnumber German nationals. The amount does not scratch the surface but it does help.
Please stop feeding this eugenics-endorsing troll, people – he needs some publicity oxygen deprivation.
Hey Brian, are you really offering up your kids to clothe and feed us when we’re “old and decrepit”?
What’s the kid’s opinion on that?
What an abjectly stupid comment!
Wouldn’t be a bad thing if the large swathe of knacks stopped reproducing.
@ Pat. Where in gods name are you getting your data from. If you paid for it get a refund. You are spectacularly off the mark regarding Germany.
Fair enough John you have a private pension and that is responsible and admired if you can afford to do so,however do you really believe that your pension and other financial investments are bullet proof,look around you man look what has happened, look at who’s running the country you never know John maybe just make we may all need the next generation of taxpayers I.e our children more than we care to admit or realise.
Thank you!
@Brian – Me and my wife have 2 thriving businesses, large private pension pots and investments as-well as less than 5 years left on my pension. I assure you, the future is not something I worry about. But thank you for your concern
You’re welcome john love!!
John,your either a liar or a troll after Last point.
Your pension will be worth damn all if there is not a young population to replace your generation.
Those thriving businesses will demise pretty quickly if the population is not replaced on a continuous basis. Unfortunately you cannot see how it benefits your business to have a system that affords some protection to those with kids and actually encourages people to have kids.
As a single mother (not by choice) trying to raise a child , pay a mortgage and pay all of the charges fees and other stuff the govt comes up with , on an invalidity pension and measly maintenance, i find your smug attitude rather crass and insulting to those people like me in society who are not only teetering on the edge of poverty but rather up to our oxters in it!!! Congrats on your lot in life but please have the humility to think of others not as fortunate as yourselves or else go live and work with the tossers in dail eireann who have no compassion for the less fortunate in society through no fault of their own!!!
This payment makes a big difference 4 a lot of families it should be left alone. More money for bankers debts and less 4 the people and their children. Thanks caring Goverment another betrayal,. What about stopping the payment to people of non Irish couples living back in their own countries it would make more sense
Simple solution, give it to those who need it (middle income) and (people on social welfare) and don’t give it to those who don’t . High earners. Why is it everyone can see this except our powers that be! Oh ya! Because their high flying friends would revolt! I’m surprised Joan hasn’t uttered the words…’let them eat cake’. Disgusting country we live in!
They shouldnt pay it for the 4th or subsequent children either.
Totally agree….except think maybe after 2 or 3 kids then shouldn’t get child benefit. You should only have more kids if u can afford it !
Aren’t all taxpayers equally entitled to the benefits & services that their taxes pay for? Or are some more equal than others?
Time for Ireland to decide what it wants to be; if it wants the big welfare state, it has to pay for it in higher taxes for all. If you want the hated high earners to pay taxes and exclude them from the benefits, don’t be suprised if they bog off somewhere else.
“Won’t someone please think of the bondholders!”
Don’t forget the poor politicians either, they’re suffering too!
I wonder do the Government really understand how much parents have to pay? Also, do they know that the costs of childcare decrease dramatically when children go to school, so it doesn’t make sense to keep paying the same level of child benefit at that stage. Where I’m from, full time childcare for one child costs €600 per month; in Dublin I believe it’s €1,000 per month minimum.
Although it would be fantastic to have children close in age, personally I am deliberately leaving a large age gap between mine because I couldn’t afford €1,200 or even €1,800 on top of my mortgage, commuting costs and other necessities. I also will have less children than I would like to have because of the costs of childcare.
Here’s an idea: get rid of child benefit and replace it with free childcare for children aged six months until they go to school, then provide free quality afterschool childcare. I know I am ignoring the obvious with this idea – parents who don’t pay childcare because one chooses to stay at home. They should also get an equivalent level of benefit as they are providing the childcare themselves.
Childrens allowance should be scrapped and given back as tax credits.
What about the unemployed?….there is a recession on at the moment you know?
Here’s a novel idea. How about people pay for their own children instead of expecting the State to do it for them?
Dillon I refer to my earlier Comment to John.if ya want a tan go and read it!
But who will pay for toxic banks and a life time worth of sovereign debt. A bit of balance wouldn’t go a miss.
@ryan- do you never tire of that boring monologue? You know those competitions at carnivals where you guess how many jelly beans are in a monster sized jar? Child’s play compared to trying to estimate how often you repeat ” it’s not our debt/ corrupt politicians/ paying the banks” each & every week. Over & over again. You know ever time you say it an Angel loses its Wings? I’m just saying- it’s carnage up there. Feathers everywhere.
Dillon if people stopped having children for economic reasons who do you think will pay for the services in your retirement?
Obvious question #1: what services? Are they the same ones that Hogan is trying to charge for?
Censored services such as Gardaí, Fire service , health service, roads, transport etc and yes also the ones Hogan is trying to charge for.
@ernie- we’re going to breed our way out of this, are we? That’s bananas.
Dillon the produce of our fun – I like it
Wow, now I’m worried about how many more children I need to have :D
What a sad life you must live John Duggan.feel sorry for you.hope you find a life.
Honestly every cut in child benefit really hits my family. I know couples where the woman is claiming single mothers allowance etc but living with the boyfriend. People who sponge off the state seem to be better off.
fishy a moral question, if it bothers you then why not report it? Even though it is totally wrong and is stealing I know I wouldn’t, but there is no point in complaining and then sitting back and doing nothing about it.
Children’s allowance should start high for the first two children and drop off the more kids you have! If you can’t afford them then you shouldn’t have a lot of kids!
Our system is set up so that the more kids you have the more you get and the less you pay, people who have two and a mortgage work and get very little, if you have 10 they give you a bunch of money a house a bus! Take and give nothing back! The kids learn that its ok to not work and get paid for it! Why would they get a job when they can stay at home and get it all for free!
Most EU countries have same problem!! Its not a fair and equal society!
Hey john why dont you give back ur child benifit every month then or give it to charity instead of k.f.c!!! The things u come out with are unbelievable at times
Vote yes to protect children, go f##k yourself Enda.
On what exactly?
I just do not understand how it is so hard to cap it, half rate for 60-80k cut after that, the UK have already started this,
well said Brian . that puts selfish people in their box .. it’s a pity we can’t see the consequences of anything in this Country always me ,me , me without looking at what it means in the long term and under different circumstances
When you see an article starting with “It’s easy for ministers on high salaries to ignore the importance of child benefit” you know it’s going to be utter bullsh*t. Your payslip has no bearing on being able to understand the merits of a universal payment scheme.
It;s quite obvious that this universal payment needs to be overhauled. It;s obvious it needs to be overhauled because:
a) Very wealthy people who don’t need it and get it even if they don’t want it.
b) The amount of local business including pubs and nightclubs that advertise on “mickey money” day. So clearly it’s not being spent on the kids.
c) Subsidy for the middle classes for all sorts of activities such as ballet and horse riding classes. That’s not what it was intended for. This is similar to fee paying schools being subsidised by the state.
Clearly there’s something wrong with this scheme and it should be going to people who need it. Taxing it seems a fair approach. We need a better system. I would agree that ministers seem to make cuts to child benefit, or fuel credits for the elderly but when it comes to their own pay packets and expenses it can’t be done.
Fee paying schools are good. It allows middle class respectable people mix with their own kind and keeps the working classes in their place.
is it true that a minster wood be entitled to a widdows pension not means tested. is this not more of it.
And don’t forget all that fishy child benefit going out of the country for the foreigners not even living in Ireland? Isn’t it about time the So-Called Government kept all of that money we never hear how much that would save?
I saw first hand how some people see child benefit among other allowances as entitlements. Getting the flat, getting a pram, getting the social etc. A student once asked me in class, “Miss, how much do you earn”. I told her it was inappropriate for me to say. She insisted saying, “ah go on, tell us, when I have me baby I’ll tell you how much I earn”.
yes, just as its easy for high salary politians to deny disability allowance and cut health care spending.
Child benefit should be means tested. I don’t need it yet get it regardless .
chris topher
if you dont need it dont take it give it back its an easy thing to do.but wait just who are the real spongers in all this , out of all the highest earners in this country last year that includes consultants,TDs,C.E.O,s of all our top companies,bankers,etc the list goes on and on,ONLY 5 people who were in receipt of child benefit actualy gave the payment back.
another thing people forget is that for nearly 20yrs now there has been NO increase in the child dependant allowance for people in receipt of social welfare the rationale the then government gave for this is that they wanted to give the money directly to the wife/woman in the family as the men were more likely to waste the money, as with most so called new taxes if a government waits a generation people forget why a tax/levey or cut was brought in in the first place
@simon. OK, “soon” is a relative term and I am being a bit of an alarmist. However, the good news is I didn’t pay for my stats. I have experienced it first hand having been a “gastarbeiter” in Germany which has the third highest population of migrant workers in the world.
“but ministers on big salaries are removed from the realities of the man on the street”.
Arguing from the person. Logic fail from the beginning.
If you dont like what the government spends it’s money on then try to pull your resources away from it and have another company handle your services. The black market is growing, make your money there.
Why should you get any money for having children? If you can’t afford them don’t breed them. I always find it ironic that the poorest people have the most children. Go buy some condoms or go on the pill. Use my tax payments on something useful like speeding up broadband or similar.
have your say