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In full: 'The annual promissory note payments are gone' - Enda Kenny

The Taoiseach’s full speech to the Dáil on the revised promissory note arrangements which will see the IOUs replaced with long-term government bonds.

TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has addressed the Dáil to inform TDs of revised arrangement regarding to former Anglo Irish Bank promissory notes, replacing them with long-term government bonds.

I wish to make an important announcement for the information of the House.

The Government has met in the last hour to consider a proposal from the Minister for Finance to once and for all remove the Promissory Notes relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society. This proposal follows the conclusion of discussions between the European Central Bank and the Irish Government.

When Fine Gael and Labour formed a new Government in 2011, we promised to renegotiate the bail-out programme inherited from the previous Government to secure a fairer and more affordable solution to our banking and sovereign debt crises.

In particular, we committed to replacing short-term, emergency Central Bank lending secured against the Promissory Notes used by the previous Government to bail-out the worst Irish banks with longer-term, more affordable financing that reduces the burden on Irish taxpayers and restores confidence among other potential investors in Ireland.

The Promissory Notes represent, in this Government’s view, a highly onerous and unfair legacy of the banking crisis.
Under this Promissory Note arrangement put in place by the previous Government, Irish taxpayers due to pay €3.1 billion next March and every March until 2023, and declining payments until 2031, to cover the massive private losses of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide.

Including interest costs, the lifetime cost of the Promissory Note would have been almost €48 billion.

I am pleased to announce that today that Ireland has reached a conclusion to its discussions with the European Central Bank that delivers on our commitment to put in place a fairer and more sustainable arrangement. This is the outcome.

The liquidation of the Irish Bank Resolution Company, as legislated for by the Oireachtas this morning. The remnants of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide – stains on our international reputations and dents to our national pride – have now been removed from the financial and political landscape. Their closure bookends a tragic chapter in our country’s history.

The annual Promissory Notes payments are gone. The liquidation this morning caused the Central Bank to assume full ownership of the €25 billion in Promissory Notes and other collateral held as security for the funds provided by the Central Bank to the IBRC.

Under the agreement reached today with the European Central Bank, the Promissory Notes are being exchanged for long term Irish Government bonds with maturities of up to 40 years.

The first principal payment will not now be made until 2038 and the last payment will be made in 2053. The average maturity of the Government bonds will be over 34 years as opposed to the 7 to 8 year average maturity on the Promissory Notes. In effect, we have replaced a short-term, high interest rate overdraft that had to be paid down quickly through more expensive borrowings, with long-term, cheap, interest-only loans.

In addition, by agreement with the ECB, the liquidation of the IBRC has caused the Central Bank to take ownership of the €3.4 billion bond used to settle the promissory note last March.

As a result, there will be a €20 billion reduction in the NTMA’s market borrowing requirements in the next decade as we seek to restore the economy to full employment, and a very large reduction in the debt servicing costs of the State over the next generation.

The average interest rate on the new bonds will begin at just over 3%, compared with an interest rate of well over 8% on the Promissory Notes.

This will result in a reduction in the State’s General Government deficit of approximately €1 billion per annum over the coming years, which will bring us €1 billion closer to attaining our 3% deficit target by 2015. This means that the expenditure reductions and tax increases will be of the order of €1 billion less to meet the 3% deficit target.

This plan will lead to a substantial improvement in the State’s debt position over time.

Today’s outcome is an historic step on the road to economic recovery. It secures the future financial position of the State by reducing the burden on Irish taxpayers arising from the bail-out of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide.

Step-by-step, this Government is undoing the disastrous banking policies that brought this State to the brink of national bankruptcy.

The agreement has reduced Ireland’s vulnerability from the huge debts taken on by Irish taxpayers as a result of the cost of rescuing failed private banks.

Irish citizens can look forward once again with positive expectations. The legacy banking debt hoisted on the Irish taxpayer is a heavy burden. The promissory notes in Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide served as a millstone around the neck of the Irish taxpayer. This burden served to erode confidence and limit the economy’s ability to grow.

The new plan will likely materially improve perceptions of our debt sustainability in the eyes of potential investors in Ireland, leading lower interest rates and faster growth than would otherwise be the case. A successful Irish exit from the bail-out by the end of this year would prove that a combination of intensive national reform efforts and European solidarity can deliver results.

Let there be no doubt, this is no silver bullet to end all our economic problems. After the catastrophic economic management of the past decade, there is still a long way to travel in our country’s journey back to prosperity and full employment. The damage done by these financial institutions will take many years to rectify.

Even as the lower interest rates resulting with this agreement reduce Ireland’s deficit, a very large and unsustainable gap between Government revenues and spending remains to be fixed – a gap unrelated to our banking crisis. Only we in Ireland can fix this problem by reforming the way our State and country works.

We continue to negotiate to improve other core elements of the onerous bail-out deal inherited from the previous Government. Today, we have secured a vastly better deal on the cost of bailing out Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide. Tomorrow we continue our efforts to seek European assistance to recover as much taxpayers’ money as possible from the other financial institutions bailed out by the State.

Eurozone leaders, including Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande, have publicly recognized the unique circumstances behind Ireland’s sovereign debt crisis and have mandated the eurogroup to address these issues.

What today shows is that the more Ireland is prepared to help itself, the more others will assist us along the difficult path we still have to travel.

It is a step forward in accelerating our path back to economic recovery and renewed job creation.

It can give us confidence that our goals are achievable, that our hopes are realisable.

It is important to recognise the independent efforts of the Irish Central Bank Governor, his staff and officials from the ECB in securing this agreement. I am confident that it will contribute hugely to the ongoing rebuilding of trust between Irish and European authorities in the management of the banking crisis.

Today’s result has been brought about a strong and determined collective effort by the entire Government. I want to thank the Tanaiste and all Ministers for their contribution to this outcome.

Most of all, I want to publicly thank the Minister for Finance Michael Noonan and his officials for leading these negotiations to a successful conclusion. Their dedicated service to the State in their tireless, persistent and patient work over the past 18th months should be an inspiration to us all.

I commend this agreement to the House.

Kenny: First payment on new Government bonds in 2038

Explainer: What happened last night? Why was IBRC liquidated? What happens now?

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154 Comments
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    Mute Paul Furey
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:02 PM

    Last payment in 2053 :( Were shocking parents.

    279
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    Mute Joseph McGranaghan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:10 PM

    Never mind parents, we’re appalling grandparents!

    190
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    Mute Arbitrasure
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:15 PM

    In 2053, and long before that, Irish government debt will be part of pan european debt. The bonds will be irrelevant once that happens and that is where Europe wants to go.

    Besides that the inflation effect will be enormous. In 2053 a pint of Guinness will be EUR100

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:38 PM

    Arbitrasure
    Let me quote Blazing Saddles as a response to your comment, “Bull $hit”.
    The ECB confirmed this money will NOT be transferred into pan European debt.

    Joseph
    Just to clarify, Enda Kenny has made us appalling Great Grandparents. We did not do this to our children, grand children and great grandchildren, the failed teacher from the bog did it to them.

    48
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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:05 AM

    Carcu along With The Hole 26 Counties At His Back, Because We Were To Cowardly To Face Him. Ya He Thought Us A lesson Alright. Our Grand Children And Great Grand Children Would Award Us First Prize For Our Cowardice. White Feathers For Everyone In The Audience. Arm Chair Warriors How Disgusted They Will Be Of Us.

    1
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    Mute Niall Noonan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:02 PM

    Look this isn’t great but it is what we have to put up with because of the greed and moral bankruptcy of Fianna Fail. I know we’d all like to just walk away from the debt but this is a step forward at least.

    We need to remember that, whatever you think of the Coalition, that it was FF that bankrupted us, that signed the bailout agreement and tied us to loans we could never have hoped to pay back.

    188
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    Mute NoddyFingers
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:10 PM

    It’s not what we “have to” put up with. It’s what we choose to put up with by our subservience and inaction.

    108
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    Mute sean
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:26 PM

    I would sort of agree with you in blaming FF , but I reckon the pop where not at all in the dark over what was going on , I don,t ever remember any heated exchanged from FG Lab regarding the property market not the credit bubble …………..in my eyes THE WHOLE IRISH POLITICAL SYSTEM ARE RESPONSIBLE ,

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:28 PM

    Naill what is after happening between today and last night stinks to the high heavens.
    I can’t prove but it all looked a little bit stage managed.Funny how it was all done before D Hall was due at court;but of course this is Ireland “nothing to see move along”.

    46
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    Mute Leigh Walsh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 9:22 PM

    But it was Fine Gael and Labour that voted for this.

    At what point do they have to take responsibility?

    1
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    Mute Professor Mehoop
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:02 PM

    Fantastic news. It’s will encourage the markets and help us as a nation on our way to recovery.

    144
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    Mute fabio entwhistle
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:15 PM

    I would have thought bank liquidations would scream uncertainty and risk to any investor!?

    26
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    Mute Little Jim
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:17 PM

    All hail the markets for they will be encouraged!
    What the hell has a private companies debt got to do with me, my kids and now my grandkids.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:29 PM

    Jim, everything Enda made it so.

    20
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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:46 PM

    Professor

    Great news alright the markets can rape us again.

    20
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    Mute Professor Mehoop
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:00 PM

    If you don’t like it here in Western democracy-land, you’re more than free to go China to join your Bolchevik buddies.

    20
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    Mute Little Jim
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:12 PM

    China’s a massive part of the market!
    We also entitled to freedom of speech, if you don’t like our replies you could try 1930′s Germany..

    16
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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:07 AM

    Sure You Will Have Loads Of Money To Buy Nice New Blue Shirts.

    1
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    Mute David Jackson
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:07 PM

    This is good news, could have been better in terms of a write down but we are in a much position then we were this time yesterday.

    Let the interest rates go down and the rolling begin.

    109
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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:04 PM

    Great news. The Government are to be commended for this result…

    89
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    Mute sean
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:20 PM

    Commended for what exactly ?

    They have just saddled our children and our grand children with this debt ,
    A debt that is mot our,s a debt that the people of Ireland are still going to have to pay in full .

    41
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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:27 PM

    No they aren’t actually. This is merely an adjustment to the current scheme to appease those who have been calling for a real deal.

    We still owe the same amount just over a longer term. We should have been pushing for a full write down of our debt and settled on a partial write down and a conversion to bonds. Instead the government didn’t negotiate and have cost us billions in a potential write down.

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    Mute Julie
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:36 PM

    Please explain to me what we have to commend this rotten shower of traitors for!!

    20
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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:56 PM

    A couple of points:
    By the time our kids as come to pay it, inflation will have negated the impact considerably.
    There is always national debt. It was there when you were a kid. A nonsense argument. People are struggling in the here and now. The ” kids” argument smacks of ” I have to dis this deal no matter what…”
    We don’t have to pay the principle for 25 years. That’s 25 billion that won’t be paid out but was supposed to be before thus deal broke.
    We could never have defaulted or walked away. Calling for it was reckless and self serving of certain parties. It would have destroyed us.
    We are now a considerably mire attractive investment option than we were yesterday. Our ability to borrow at much better terms has been bolstered by our significantly improved capacity to repay.
    To those who still say this is bad, smells fishy and what ever else your having, I say what else would you say. It’s all you know how to do…

    41
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    Mute Patrick Lyons
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:06 PM

    You are 100% correct. This is a very good deal considering the situation the country was in. It is very easy for Shinner types to suggest inane ‘solutions’ because they do not have to deal with the reality of the situation. They also know that they will never have to deal with the reality of any situation so they can continue to talk nonsense ad nauseum.

    23
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    Mute Julie
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:12 PM

    What is good about making an illegal debt legal and doubling it. Ye are the sheep that will always follow , they screwed us over right in front of our eyes. Go away will ye, hang yer heads in shame supporting corrupt traitors. Reilly show me evidence to back up what you are saying, the markets were waiting for us to get debt written down. Is your evidence the lying fools Enda or Gilmore ?

    15
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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:47 PM

    Julie, moodys just came out to describe the deal as “credit positive for Ireland”… Karl Whelan, whom you shinners like to quote described it “as good a deal as you could have hoped for..” Eddie Hobbs described it as a “triumph”. But no doubt you’ll hang on every depressing view Pearce will spout today. Thanks to this gov, you might get to come home sooner…

    14
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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:12 AM

    Is that you Doctor.

    1
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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:15 AM

    That was Some Operation Alright Dr O Reilly.

    1
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    Mute Barty
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:06 PM

    If something sounds to good to be true it normally is.

    83
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    Mute Eamonn O'Riain
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:03 PM

    Tell that to the poor sods who’ll wind up having to pay in years to come Kenny, you scoundrel.

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    Mute Daniel Dudek Corrigan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:11 PM

    better them than us ;)

    23
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    Mute Kevin Higgins
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:18 PM

    Rightly said Eamonn. Now that its a sovereign debt we have no cards left in our hand. Sad day in Irish History. Feeling like we are participating in generation genocide here.

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:10 AM

    Daniel like I Said Coward.

    1
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    Mute Dmc
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:02 PM

    Bring back the gold standard. Time to get out of Europe. Just heard that Germany is requesting their gold deposits back from America

    73
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    Mute Eamonn O'Riain
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:14 PM

    I heard that too. 400 or 4,000 tonnes of the stuff.

    27
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    Mute Jim Flavin
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:16 PM

    We are on gold standard -as we may well find out all too soon .
    ”Just heard that Germany is requesting their gold deposits back from America”
    Thats old news actually – its all about gold and silver now in the currency wars . UK sold half [ 300 tons ] its gold for buttons [ $ 300 /ounce / . It is now $ 1,300 /oince and rising – so UK not in a great poition to defend £ . What are Irelands gold reserves – thats how soveriegn we are . At the rate the money printing is going on – there has to be / sorry there is inflation .

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    Mute Paul Wallace
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:33 PM

    The fiat currencies are being printed to death on purpose. Hope you have your savings in gold and silver, the chance if a life time to protect yourself. The next crash a lot of people are going to lose everything…

    9
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    Mute Lamb
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:56 PM

    Not sure, some forecasters reckon there is a gold bubble waiting to burst

    6
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    Mute Paul Wallace
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:18 PM

    Gold and silver haven’t really started their bull run. When the currencies start to fail people will rush to real money. Gold and silver have been real money for 5,000 years, nothing is going to change on that score. Not one fiat currency has ever survived in history..what makes you think these ones will…

    3
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    Mute Anthony O Donnell
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:34 PM

    I skimmed a few ounces off each ingot , to pay back the promissory notes but Noonan beat me to it , who’s for a piss up courtesy of Angie baby .

    1
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    Mute terry
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:16 PM

    There is no write down here on the capital sum there is a lowering of interest and a longer term repayment model that hopefully will inflate away the affect of the negative out flows over time. But for the love of god this should never and it is not sovereign debt Enda has just made it so. Morally this is not the debt of the state and we have done what we always do in Ireland fudge a decision or kick it down the road so it becomes someone else’s problem – that is a problem for my 6 year old son and 4 year old daughter – needless to say I am fuming

    68
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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:29 PM

    I’m trying to get my head around whether we can really inflate this away. Historically, 3% bonds have had their value eroded. But there’s a problem here. The ECB has a mandate to keep inflation down to 2%.

    This would mean we would have to grow the economy at 1% a year, at least, just to stand still. That’s achievable, and a lot better than the situation with the PNs, but it depends on reform of the EU economies that the EU hasn’t shown any stomach for as yet.

    25
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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:42 PM

    Emily

    And if the Euro Zone inflation were to increase above 2% to say 3% we would need to grow the economy by 4% just to stand still. In other words the Irish economy will have to outperform the Euro Zone economy by 1% for the next 40 years.
    No way that can happen.

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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:06 PM

    OK crunching that a bit more, if you assume an annualised growth rate of 2%, the deal saves around €7 billion in present value over its life. If you go down to 1%, it’s not so great but is still €1.5bn better than the deal we have now.

    Of course, the real point of the deal is to stop the leakage of cash in the short term.

    (I’m not arguing that we should ever have taken on the PN or son-of-PN, only that this deal is definitely better than the one currently in place.)

    12
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    Mute Mary Mc Carthy
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:10 PM

    What about Kenny’s promise ‘ not another cent ‘ to the banks ? What about the 800 jobs that may be lost today ? What about the future of our country that now our children and their children will have to bail out ?

    67
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    Mute Barry Freeney
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:27 PM

    no jobs were lost- they will be re-employed almost immediately by NAMA

    10
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    Mute Mary Mc Carthy
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    Feb 7th 2013, 8:28 PM

    @ Barry . Are you guaranteeing people their jobs because if you are you are the only ones

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    Mute The Irish Bull
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:13 PM

    Deal me arse – First its not citizen debt and should never have been placed on the shoulders of this generation or any other generation. Have we gone past that now or have we just accepted the shady happenings when Cowen and Co. sold us under? Secondly it’s far from what Fine Gael and their props promised. And thirdly i suspect it is going to cost us a whole lot more in the long run. What a shambles!!

    67
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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:47 PM

    D.A.

    You dont understand the rules. Protect yourself is the only rule.

    2
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    Mute Daniel Condren
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:10 PM

    Sweet jesus 2053, TWO THOUSAND AND FIFTY THREE! Thats probably when I’ll die

    65
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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:18 PM

    I think a lot of people are forgetting that If the first payment isn’t due to be made until 2038, then 25 years of inflation will mean this cost will be substantially less in real terms in 2038, than it is today.

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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:30 PM

    You’re forgetting the 3% interest payment.

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:31 PM

    It’s still a poor compromise. The government had a leverage through the legal challenge to the promissory notes to push for a partial write down. Instead they settled on an agreement which suits the EU (the debt is now legally enshrined) better than the Irish (relying on inflation which we do not control to ease the burden). It’s a pretty poor deal considering our bargaining position.

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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:37 PM

    I’m not forgetting the 3% interest rate as that rate is still significantly less than the interest rate on the previous promissory notes. Also, it’s definitely not unheard of for Ireland’s inflation rate to be higher than 3%. In the early 2000s, our inflation rate was consistently over 3%, even going as high s 7%.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:39 PM

    Correct Ignore but we start paying the interest immediatly, why not wait until we are given the figures by people who know what they are talking about.
    What was said earlier today by Carl Whelan about this deal is very different than what alot of “spin merchants”are saying.

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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:40 PM

    @Jason, we couldn’t afford to wait for the legal challenge as the promissory note was due to be paid by the end of March. With court backlogs, there’s no way the case could have been heard before then.

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:44 PM

    Ignoreland

    You forget the reason we had 7% growth was the building boom.

    The only think keeping this economy going is the foreign multinationals with all their exports. All we need to to lose 2 or 3 of the major ones and we end up in a worse position.

    8
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    Mute Mark keogh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:12 PM

    Blather and bullshit in the Dail. Begob. Well done boys. We will pay this out in totality! We will pay it over 40 years ! We will owe it to the ECB instead of to our own dead bank. We have burnt this debt into our children’s futures.
    Applause. Applause. Great stuff boys. Begob. Drinks all around.

    59
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    Mute Ken Maycock
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:27 PM

    Its an improvement yes, does it help yes… is it fair, at the fundamental core you still have the Irish tax payer paying for losses at a private bank! Totally morally wrong! Also cements the Anglo losses as sovereignty debt now so forget about the ESM contributing to that. My children will be paying of the cock ups of governments in place when they were barely born!

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    Mute Niall Noonan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:00 PM

    True, but people always pay for the mistakes of their grandparents. We’re still living in a world where DeValera signing us over to Rome is a major problem

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    Mute mattoid
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:01 PM

    Nail on the head Ken – Edna described it as a “…fairer and more sustainable arrangement”.
    He may have been right about the latter, but there’s still no fairness in any arrangement that forces the general public to pay for private debt that is not theirs.

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    Mute censored
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:37 PM

    Checked the news today and heard “the promissory notes are gone”. I was all set to start jumping up and down for job/eat my hat over my comments about Enda and FG and then … realized that actually THEY ARE NOT BLOOMING GONE. We’re going to be paying for them alright!

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    Mute Declan Conway
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:55 PM

    And don’t forget the €64bn in EU/IMF bailout loans that have kept the State afloat these past few years.
    Those repayments start in 2015 and run yearly until 2041.
    Noonan is trying to get part of that debt, about 17 billion euros, stretched until 2063.
    Original Debt on the unborn Irish.
    Oh yes, and of course getting the deficit down to 3%, which then triggers a clause in the last treaty we agreed with, dragging the deficit down to virtually zero.
    No wonder they shelved The Apprentice.

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    Mute Ken Maycock
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:17 PM

    Conceptually at a high level I 100% completely agree with fiscal control and anything that brings that in/forces the government to do it is to be welcomed. As long as you are running a deficit you are borrowing money to keep the country running and going cap in hand to somewhere…. typically markets to get money.

    If you are running in surplus or neutral you can start to reduce the debt burden which in turn means less money servicing debt which in turn means improvements as tax take can be put into the economy rather than the pockets of investors in the form of interest.

    In a way its good that there are treaties forcing the governments to do it because self regulation & control & accountability & the best interests of the people of Ireland aren’t terms you’d associate with many governments over the past couple of years. The worst being the one that landed us in this mess to start with!!!

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:42 AM

    And Your Grand / Great Grand Children Ken.

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    Mute De Badger
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:04 PM

    No there not, they are there for 40years and a round of applause for this crap unbelievable, how are they gone?

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    Mute mart_n
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:21 PM

    Forgive my cynicism, but I’m totally unconvinced that this move has anything to do with anything other than the government’s fear that promissory notes would be declared null and void. They’re talking about it as if they’ve achieved great things. They’ve achieved nothing.. they’ve even cleared the way for further private debts to be socialized if needs be.

    And it’s completely disingenuous for them to claim that we’ll save a billion per year… those billions (of other peoples debt) still need to be paid by us, and with a greater interest rate now. If we’re truly going to save a billion per year, will things like the household charge be reversed? Will the 100 Garda Station closed last week be reopened? The only thing been saved here is their face.

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:15 PM

    They’re gone alright! They have been replaced by a sovereign bond! What a joke!

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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:20 PM

    The promissory notes were ALREADY guaranteed by the sovereign! A loan with a higher interest rate!

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:41 PM

    Difference between guarantee and direct responsibility as you well know!

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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:18 PM

    It’s not at all clear what the actual outcome is, because neither the DoF nor the ECB seems to have any actual understanding of the legal concept of “ownership”. Nor does much of the banking sector. That is not abuse, it is empirical fact.

    Inda says that “The liquidation this morning caused the Central Bank to assume full ownership of the €25 billion in Promissory Notes and other collateral held as security for the funds provided by the Central Bank to the IBRC.”

    This is absolute gibberish. The Central Bank already held full ownership of the PNs – that was the whole point of them. I ASSUME what he actually means is that the PN (which was a note written by Anglo and guaranteed by the taxpayer) has been redeemed for long dated government bonds.

    Who holds these bonds? The Central Bank or the ECB? If this made any kind of sense, it would be the Central Bank. We then have 25 years to make them do a vanishing act. If it turns out to be the ECB, then you know you’ve been rightly shafted.

    What about the collateral? It APPEARS that they will be sold off, with the money going to the Central Bank (to reduce the new bonds), and NAMA coming in as the buyer of last resort. It is wholly unclear exactly how this is supposed to work. Maybe it’s in the Act, but I bet your TD doesn’t know.

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:13 PM

    This the best we could have hoped for. The country is always going to be in debt. The amount, though intimidating, isn’t so much the issue as the strength of the economy and this will give us breathing space to sort something out. Dislike that as much as ye like. Its a modern day reality

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    Mute Colm McDonagh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:22 PM

    I’ll just insist on my children bringing us with them when they emigrate! I certainly wouldn’t inflict a future in this banana republic on them.

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:32 PM

    Read what you just wrote there Colm. The two sentances don’t add up. I’m just saying.

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    Mute MrLiberal
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:03 PM

    It’s about time we got a deal!

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    Mute Emer Bracken
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:13 PM

    That’s not a deal,it is a millstone around our necks. All this because David Hallscase might have made the promissory notes illegal.

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    Mute Alan Grouse
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:15 PM

    What a f#cking snake. He and his fellow puppets of europe have robbed the irish public and are patting themselves on the back as a “job well done”

    Hate is too small a word i have for them. This “deal” should not even exist. Spineless cowardly traitors each and every 113 of them.

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    Mute Rob Hunt
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:28 PM

    Let’s hear your idea so.

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    Mute Alan Grouse
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:07 PM

    Heres an idea, for the benefit of your children and their children consider leaving. Dont kid yourself or believe the spin from this incompetant government. We’ve simply delayed the inevitable. Ireland will still have to pay billions and billions of interest (which we will more then likely have to borrow in order to do so) to cover a debt that never was ours. The government were awful negotiators and instead of giving the fingers to europe and telling them that we will not cover the excessive gambling and greed of banks and corporations and that their unsecured bonds will remain exactly that! unsecured! They chose to pander to whatever the ECB wanted. All to our and childrens detriment. That vote lastnight should never have taken place similar to how AIB should never have been bailed.

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    Mute Cheeky Bums
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    Feb 7th 2013, 6:22 PM

    Eh, if AIB hadn’t been bailed out, it would have collapsed and ordinary, everyday people would have lost out (subject to the limits of the investor compensation scheme) on their savings, pensions, personal investments etc. (Have a look at what happened to Madoff investors in the US.)

    Don’t forget that in the event of liquidation, a depositor will rank as an unsecured creditor and a quick look into insolvency legislation will tell you they will be the last to get paid from the residual assets of the liquidated company…so if there is nothing left, unsecured creditors will get nothing.

    As well as this, innumerable businesses would have faced immediate cash flow problems due to AIB related payments not being honoured, rising bad debts from other AIB business customers losing their deposits and possible liquidation themselves.

    Bearing all this in mind, can you please explain how letting AIB collapse would have been a good thing?

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    Mute Gzeit
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:07 PM

    Disgraceful !

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    Mute Sean Brannigan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:26 PM

    Ah well it could of been worse, we could of refused to pay….then we would have went on fire, the hospitals would close, the schools would fall down and the roads cave in, just like in Iceland………WAIT A SECOND??????????

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    Mute Declan Conway
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:16 PM

    This is straightforward.
    It’s the Irish taxpayer versus the ECB (German and French banks).
    Any agreement to pay back any part of the note is a bad one for the Irish taxpayer.
    Patrick Honohan has proved himself a loyal member of the cabal of powerful, grey suits at the ECB.
    Honohan is pushing simply for an agreement to appease them – not to lessen the burden on the Irish people.
    If he was doing the latter, he would have fought tooth and nail to abolish that huge debt, or at least have it shared equally among member States. Some club. Some partners. Some friends.
    Last night the main political parties of Ireland put a vast debt on to the shoulders of the Irish people for the next 40 years, costing at least 2 billion euros a year.
    And we should be grateful?
    We’re not reaching for the pitchforks yet, but that time is getting close.

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:24 PM

    Did I read that somewhere else? You’re not fond of that composition at all Declan?

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    Mute Derek Boyle
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:23 PM

    Time for a mass mortgage default if you ask me, lets see what they do then, enough is enough, we need a revolution.

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    Mute Helen Callanan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:37 PM

    Les Miserables highlights the plight of the french in early eighteen hundreds who were moved to a revolution, Derek,….200 years ago!…..so scary that such thoughts and feelings still abound here and now in out little Ireland – after what the brave men of Ireland fought for, died for!……it’s slipping away from us!!!!!!

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    Mute Cheeky Bums
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    Feb 7th 2013, 6:34 PM

    Yes, mass mortgage default is a great idea…until you go to apply for a credit card / mortgage / car loan and are refused or have higher interest rates imposed due to bad credit history.

    You will only cut off your nose to spite your face by doing this.

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    Mute werejammin
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:32 PM

    Well there you have it. Fine Gael have turned the mystical promissory note debt into sovereign debt that will now have to be paid in full by our people and our kids. Private gambling losses have bee n forced upon us in the greatest act of criminality in the history of our state. They did not look for a writedown, they did not look for the burden which befell us for saving Europes Banks and Currency to be shared more fairly, they looked for NOTHING.

    I said from day one that Fine Gael were the party of wealth and the party of Europe, and that Europe and the wealthy would ALWAYS be given prescident over working class Irish people. We have been sold out lock stock and barrel.

    Labour, collapse this treacherous government now, for all our sakes.

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:47 AM

    We’rejammin LABOUR Will Only Do Something For Their Own Sake.

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    Mute Mark O' Tuathal
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:20 PM

    DEMOCRACY MY ARSE I NEVER VOTED FOR THAT ,

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    Mute Tom Keating
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:25 PM

    Well, you actually voted for them to make the decisions for you on your behalf!

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    Mute Tús Nua
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    Feb 7th 2013, 6:23 PM

    they were voted in to write down debt on our behalf they were voted in to a lot of things that they have constantly failed on they are a disgrace ,we were never consulted on this Odious debt

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    Mute Michael O Sullivan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:18 PM

    Well. Done might shut up all the doom merchants

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    Mute Mark O' Tuathal
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:23 PM

    GUILOTENE YHE LOT OF THEM .

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    Mute John Stevenson
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:19 PM

    So a move away from austerity budgets and towards a more growth centred approach? Not gonna happen I fear. Just kick the can down the road.

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    Mute Declan Moran
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:27 PM

    not out debt

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    Mute Helen Callanan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 6:25 PM

    ..in response to Emily Elephant…who ponders on whether the bonds are with the ECB or Central Bank: it was said on one of the discussion progs about one hour ago that the bonds would initially sit with the Central Bank during which time the interesy would ‘go to ourselves’ – and would thereafter be with the ECB….time factor not given by speaker……………..you spoke of Central Bank making the bonds do a ‘vanishing act’….?

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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Feb 7th 2013, 10:25 PM

    Helen, because the basic issue has been kicked down the road. With the PN, the Central Bank takes the money and burns it, because of daft EU rules. Replacing it with long dated bonds doesn’t change that – it just means that you burn money later.

    This is as stupid as it ever was.

    There will probably be another dozen bank deals before we have to pay back the principal on these bonds. The obligation to burn money can quietly disappear in any one of those. Then the CB puts the payments straight back into circulation.

    That’s what I’d do anyway. Then again, I’d have refused to pay it at all.

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    Mute John Kavanagh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:23 PM

    “The promissory notes in Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide served as a millstone around the neck of the Irish taxpayer”……..so we have deffered this millstone to the necks of your granchildren!!!!

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    Mute D.A. Molony
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:48 PM

    @Carcu…so pleasant. A champion of the people. please save us

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    Mute Jim Bliss
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:19 PM

    The payments aren’t gone. We’re just calling them by a different name.

    “[The issuing of long-term bonds] is using posterity with the utmost cruelty; because it is leaving them the great work to do, and a debt upon their backs, from which they derive no advantage. Such a thought is unworthy a man of honor, and is the true characteristic of a narrow heart and a peddling politician.”
    - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:26 PM

    Edna (pun intended), Kenny is correct in law, “The annual promissory note payments are gone”.

    However he really is a dumb son of a ….. if he thinks we don’t know he has replaced annual payments with payments beginning in 25 years time and lasting for another 15 years after that.

    I’m even more convinced he thinks we are all “Simple farmers, people of the land, the common clay…, you know morons”?

    Well I hope the people of Mayo are happy with him, he has not legally transferred private bank debt into Ireland sovereign debt. Which is what the ECB wanted all along and not what the people of Ireland wanted.

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    Mute Owen McCarthy
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:27 PM

    While this 25 Billion is now locked onto our national debt for the long term, inflation and hopefully long term growth over the 40 years will make this total amount to be seem quite small.
    Our future children however wont forgive us if these saving made over the next number of years are not re-invested into the economy as a whole to increase our chances of sustainable growth and to help the 15% of the population unemployed. We have lost 5 years, in my opinion this restructuring of debt may give us a chance. The idea of defaulting sounds great but in reality we have far too much to lose by doing so.

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:30 PM

    The ESB expect a reduction in output, meaning the debt will actually grow as a percentage all through this year.

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:40 PM

    Well said Owen. Nail on the head. That is the next big test. I’m sceptical as to whether the current government are up to that task but at least the opportunity is there. Defaulting is completely and utter Utopian as an option.

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    Mute Keith Harrison
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:38 PM

    Does this mean then that there is no more wage cuts and the USC, household tax, water tax, septic tank tax etc are to be reversed then!!!!

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:49 AM

    Would Not
    Hold My Breath Keith, Unless They Start Taxing Air.

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    Mute Mark O' Tuathal
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:26 PM

    you can spwnd hours, days and weeks trying to understand this and debate it meanwhile its buisness as usual another round of bonuses for the elites another pat on the head for kenny from the ecb, and back to work for the banks to come up with another way to funnel even more funding out of the country . it wont be difficult the irish people are spinless

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:36 AM

    Mark Have been Saying It for The last Few Years. People are even Too SPINLESS to Disagree.

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    Mute Mark Dennehy
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:20 PM

    Cheap loans, eh?
    Well, sure what harm. It’s not like we’ve just seen the near-destruction of the global economy because of cheap money only a few years ago, after all. What could possibly go wrong?

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    Mute Ken Maycock
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:33 PM

    Bog off Dennehy! : )

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    Mute Kevin McCarthy
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:40 PM

    So I go gamble on the horses in the morning. I lose everything on them and ask my neighbour to pay up but instead of next week I push it out by a year. Great deal for my neighbour and his family. I’m sure they will popping bottles of champagne.

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    Mute Mark keogh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:25 PM

    I think we are getting bogged down in the details. It saves us a bit here and a bit there.
    Actually we should not be paying this money at all.
    We should not be paying this Money at all.
    We should not……

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:04 PM

    https://www.facebook.com/events/164773780337461/

    In light of the night’s events. A General Assembly has been called in Eyre Square today at 6 Pm.

    Agenda:

    The Government rushing a bill through the Dáil overnight that will condem generations of Irish citizens to debt.

    Feel free to add items to the agenda in the comments.

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    Mute Francis Foran
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:17 PM

    so is the anti austerity march called off on saturday ??

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    Mute Leigh Walsh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 9:20 PM

    Only if the government calls off austerity.

    Fat chance of that. This “deal” will make no difference to the average person because they’ll keep up the same plan regardless. They’ve already make it clear they intend to increase taxation and reduce expenditure.

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    Mute Paul H
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:52 PM

    Privatising bank Gains and Socialising bank Losses, all with a whimper. People really do get the Government they deserve.

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:53 AM

    Hear Hear. Whimpering Lazy Cowards

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    Mute rob davis
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:42 PM

    Enda Kenny will publicly thank the Minister of Finance for seeing negotiations through, but won’t publicly apologise on behalf of the state for what happened in Magdalene laundries. Spineless, headline grabbing no leadership skills man.

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:52 AM

    What do you Expect From A Bog Man From Mayo.

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    Mute Gavin Finnegan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:29 PM

    Sounds like more papering over the cracks in our failed monetary and political system to me. So we’ll limp on for another while : (

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    Mute Con Ó Domhnaill
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:39 PM

    Anybody in any doubt please read David Mc William’s in todays Indo. He is a recognized expert and he says we have been shafted by the ECB, who got exactly what they wanted. The people of Ireland are the losers and it mystifies me how Fine Gaeler’s can actually come on here and praise the “deal”. Are they thick or something?

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    Mute James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:59 AM

    Con Thick As a Mayo Bog Man.

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    Mute Coddler O Toole
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:47 PM

    FG and Labour are treasonous quisling dogs. This betrayal should never be forgotten or forgiven.

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    Mute My Anarchic Trek
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    Feb 8th 2013, 1:07 AM

    Cosy there James….??
    - get you a cup of tea….??

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    Mute Patrick Lyons
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:41 PM

    This is excellent news. Of course there are many who hate good news.

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    Mute Mark keogh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:27 PM

    Congrats on your positivity.

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    Mute Graham Mace
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:04 PM

    Either Patrick has a black belt, seventh dan, in irony or else he’s talkin’ out of the part that supplies the stuff we all are in!

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    Mute sean
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:14 PM

    The Irish people conned again ,
    When you think about it , this immediate risk to Anglo that baldy was mouthing off about is a load of bollocks , the only risk was the legal case due in the supreme court, ……with that in mind the ECB knowing full well how illegal these.notes where………forced the gov into the late night bullshit we saw last night ,………….its all beginning to add up now . For Noonan to say this was sorted weeks ago is simply more bullshit . I,d like him to prove it ………i very much doubt he could

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    Mute Sean Tyrrell
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:40 PM

    Not ideal, would have obviously preferred a write down, but I suppose this is the next best thing, it’s more manageable now, but it should have never had to happen. Hopefully past mistakes will not be repeated again. Here’s to 2038!

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    Mute Damocles
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:15 PM

    So they’ve robbed Peter’s unborn grandson to pay Paul.

    People of Ireland, don’t have any kids. That’ll teach ‘em.

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    Mute sean
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:54 PM

    I,m I right in saying
    3%int = €1bn per year until 2038
    Then the actual payments kick in
    Total cost approximately €60billion , right ,

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    Mute Pól Ó Briain
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:58 PM

    More examples of bad Europe and bad Government . I think people need to start thinking hard about what the actual function of the EU is and what it represents . It now seems far from the ideals that were extolled to me when I was young and in school. Equality and solidarity certainly do not seem to be part of its makeup and without them there is no community and no union . With friends like this who needs enemies .

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    Mute Stephen Browner
    Favourite Stephen Browner
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:55 PM

    Yeah but let’s face it: In less then 25 years there will be another bail out of another institution that is deemed ‘too big to fail’ and we will all get shafted again. Under no circumstances to I not expect to get bent over a barrel by this government or the next one, or the one after. The level of accountability leveled at people in power, be them in government or in board rooms, is virtually non existent. So why exactly would they change anything? They’re not a**holes. We are. Until people are held accountable either by jail time or just dragged out into the street and beaten by an angry mob, nothing will change.

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    Mute Gavin Finnegan
    Favourite Gavin Finnegan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:52 PM

    If this was indeed to “reduce the burden on the Irish Taxpayer” are we to assume the property and water taxes aren’t going to go ahead……………………….Yeah, I didn’t think so.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
    Favourite Cian O Donoghue
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:54 PM

    I’m no FG supporter but people have to remember who bent over a table in the middle of the night and dropped us in this mess in the first place. To an extent I feel sorry for this govt. They inherited a legacy that they couldn’t hope to get out of.

    Had we burned those faceless bondholders that night would we be in any worse a position than we were yesterday? I doubt it. Iceland wasn’t and in fact is thriving now. At least this afternoon there is a positive result, not the one I had hoped for, but we as an economy should b better equipped to deal with it.

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    Mute andy lynch
    Favourite andy lynch
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    Feb 7th 2013, 9:21 PM

    I’ve been out of Ireland for 4 years now, but from an outside perspective it seems like the government are acting without any support from the people. They are making these huge decisions that will effect generations of Irish and doing so as a temporary fix, to brush the shit under the carpet, a long finger tactic of evasion and outright cowardice to face upto Europe. To legitimise the promissory notes is a travesty, considering they are based on guaranteeing what is the gamble of investment in any venture (Anglo). Kenny and Co have shown themselves to be as effective as putting sudocream on a bullet hole, pointless and messy. I feel a pang of sadness when I see how far and fast we have fallen. I miss home but when I read these reports I can’t see any other life for me but being half the world away.

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    Mute Emmet Gilgunn
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    Feb 7th 2013, 3:20 PM

    ill prob just retire when this finishes up

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    Mute Dave Harris
    Favourite Dave Harris
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    Feb 7th 2013, 4:10 PM

    Nobody likes that we’ve got this bloody great debt, and need them to get a better deal. To all that bang on about our future generations having to pay that debt – do you think it would have been better to keep paying the 3 billion each year as the country collapsed around our ears – surely that would be a much worse thing to pass on to our children and grandchildren than a completely banjaxed country (well more banjaxed anyway)

    Now lets watch Dame Enda and his band of fools keep at the Gardai, nurses, and the rest of the front line staff – They were always going to do that anyway, even before/without a financial crisis.

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    Mute James Lane
    Favourite James Lane
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    Feb 8th 2013, 12:57 AM

    Sean watch The Muppets Play and You’ll Get A Muppet Show.

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    Mute Noreen Lunney
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    Feb 7th 2013, 6:00 PM

    Enda has made sure no TD can pick up where David Hall left off. We will still pay the promissory notes and the big boys in Anglo Irish or ibrc will still be looked after. Enda has made sure the promissory notes will be paid in full. FF imposed this debt upon the people FG has sealed the deal

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    Mute Niall Carty
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    Feb 7th 2013, 8:18 PM

    Debit is still debit!! There’ll b no changes for us.. They have guaranteed another 40 years of paying back bad debit! But it’s ok for now.. Well done! Success! What A pathetic government! Guaranteed f**ked for several generations!

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    Mute Frances Roe
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:11 PM

    The word that chills me most in this statement is ‘reform’. Enda’s use puts what we all perceive as austerity and desperate emergency measures, (many deeply inappropriate to the Irish sphere), as somehow being improvements. Double, triple & quadruple taxation for the same basic services, decimating Peter’s budget to pilfer from Paul’s, relinquishing State responsibility left right & centre under the flags of expediency & privatisation, pillaging national assets & firesaling them to local & international opportunists, over-dependence on a tax-haven ‘cash crop’ which could fly the coop at any time, retirement at 70 for those lucky enough to work. And whatever other ‘reforms’ to our silly old-fashioned un-European social system that are, evidently, waiting in the wings already. Reform – what a dangerous word to hear from the mouth of Enda Kenny.

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    Mute Rosaleen Coyle
    Favourite Rosaleen Coyle
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:42 PM

    Does that mean that next budget will be less harsh?

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
    Favourite Cian O Donoghue
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    Feb 7th 2013, 6:50 PM

    Probably not no. They will say they are using the extra money to stimulate the economy through job creation initiatives, cap exp etc. Etc..

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    Mute Peter Richardson
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    Feb 7th 2013, 8:54 PM

    So have a look at the 3 cups. Under which one are the promissory notes? Now watch me make the country disappear.

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    Mute Graham Mace
    Favourite Graham Mace
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:02 PM

    I’ll be feckin’ long time dead when this lot is paid off. God bless Evil Edna and his jolly chums.

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    Mute Graham Mace
    Favourite Graham Mace
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    Feb 7th 2013, 5:07 PM

    We’re all treated like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed on bullshite, with no end to it in sight. Feck party politics and capitalism, there has to be a better way to live.

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    Mute Stuart Lee©MUFC
    Favourite Stuart Lee©MUFC
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    Feb 7th 2013, 7:13 PM

    I had to have frozen fish and beans (aldi beans) for dinner. Where is the Justice in that huh. !!!!!

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    Mute Leigh Walsh
    Favourite Leigh Walsh
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    Feb 7th 2013, 9:19 PM

    “This means that the expenditure reductions and tax increases will be of the order of €1 billion less to meet the 3% deficit target.”

    I thought we had the last austerity budget?

    I’m starting to think we need to go Greek on their asses at this stage. We need some sort of vigilante group to issue a warning; if you hoist any more of this onto the poor and vulnerable, we will grab you off the street at night and lock you in a cold, dark cell. No excuses, no exceptions.

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    Mute Yvonne Callaghan
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    Feb 7th 2013, 9:08 PM

    Just pretend this never happened as it won’t make an iota of differance to the Irish we have to keep on paying but we let our children and grandchildren inheret too

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    Mute Amelia O Connor
    Favourite Amelia O Connor
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    Feb 8th 2013, 3:19 PM

    We have now turned what was a mythical promissory note into a bond which they bonded to us for generations to come.
    That bank debt was NOT ours in the first place but we have been conditioned by Government into thinking we the people had some moral obligation to pay it of f~ And now we are being programmed into thinking the Government have achieved something amazing by their pushing the debt onto the future ~ sigh!

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    Mute Amelia O Connor
    Favourite Amelia O Connor
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    Feb 8th 2013, 3:25 PM

    PS AND we are NOT paying off the debt now ~ we are paying back interest only ~ money for nothing ~ kicks for free!!

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