Why are you happy enough to live on 8.65 a hour?

Yep exactly Brian. I’d be more talking about the “smaller” fella if you like, the family business type, they tend to be decent. The bigger lads would be more geared towards making as much profit as possible. More should be done to help the smaller local businesses, but all we see are more and more bigger multi-nationals coming here, and they don’t give a toss really about the social fabric of this country.

Family businesses are total bollocks, they’ll rip off as many already short-changed employees to keep their unqualified child, sorry, ‘line manager,’ swimming in coke.

Total shit ! Struggled to survive myself running to stand still with costs and no help and if you go to the wall every worker except the owner is entitled to help !!! Facts truths and accountability !!!!

Yeah Jamie its a disgrace that massive multinational companies with huge parent corporations behind them receive more help from government than our own small home grown businesses.

That’s it Brian, shows you who’s interests our government really have at heart, the big-boys and the greedy fat-cats.

No I’m not wrong. If Ireland removed the minimum wage we would have 0% unemployment as all manner of manufacturing companies would flock here and we would outcompete all of Europe and america

Oh God, that is absolute and utter nonsense. If that happened no one would work the jobs because it would be utterly pointless cause you wouldnt even be able to feed yourself on a full time wage. Might want to brush up on something a bit more advanced than Ann & Barry economics!

What do you mean people wouldn’t work? Of course people would work. When it’s a choice between starvation and work people tend to work as they have for thousands of years..

@Killjoy, would you have us pay the already lowest earns less so that multinational giants can make even more money and those working for say €4.50 an hour requiring hand outs from the state and charities to essentially survive? The cost to businesses to operate should be looked instead but that’s something she nor her cohorts in the Dial will sort out ie. Upwards only rent, council rate and there’s also insurance to take into account.
Perhaps if these came down to a more realistic level ISME’s could afford to pay staff more but as things currently stand her suggestion just isn’t feasible

ISME think times are tough and reducing the money in their customers pockets further is the answer. LOL!

Look you are not looking at a modern society in a practical way, you’re being overly simplistic (hence me referring to Ann & Barry) and I’m sorry if this sounds insulting but you’re being very silly! You are totally and utterly wrong ok! Sweatshops do not work for society, the merely line corporate pockets (take a look at the news once in a while and you’ll see that). Your idea essentially creates sweat shops, what next, child labour?

Germany has Not implementier a Minimum wage. Oddly enough, they have unemployment levels far below the EU average and far below countries with a minimum wage.

It’s a no-brainer. Increasing the minimum wage would be a populist crowd-pleaser and would cripple an already struggling economy.

The aim is to make the Irish economy more competitive in the European and arenas. Increasing the minimum wages would make Ireland even less competitive and would raise the cost of living still further.

There’s no point having a high minimum wages when employers must cut jobs to meet.

The only people who believe increasing the minimum wage are the same people who seem to think that money grows on trees.

Killjoy are you for real? Abolish it altogether? Yeah, why not. Race to the bottom would go in to overdrive. We would have people getting €5 an hour or less. Fact is, some employers and their mouthpieces (isme and ibec) have used this recession to finish off the worker once and for all and put them ‘back in their box’. Never a group to miss a golden opportunity. If people have less money in their pockets to spend. It’s their very businesses that are going to suffer. Short sighted fools. All in the name of profit.

The taxpayer is already subsidising businesses in the form of Jobsbridge. They dont have to pay any wage when they can get desperate people to work for nothing. While the taxpayer pays their unemployment and housing allowances.

@John Ah that ole chesnut, just cause you call people out who suggest other folk should work for a weeks wage that they wouldn’t get out of bed for a days work for, you think money grows on trees. More nonsense. Have you ever been to Germany? Have you experienced the cost of living there? It is a million miles away from Ireland so comparing the 2 is off the richter scale stupid! A days wage should be able to afford you a roof over your head for that night and some food in your mouth at the very least. So suggesting the mimimum wage should be abolished you are either deluded, have a deep desire to create more homelessness and child malnutrition, in the pocket of ISME or on drugs. Economics is not as simple as you make it out to be. Every action has a reaction.

@ Diarmuid. I live in Germany, I have done so for over 8 years. You don’t live in Germany. You are not living and working in Germany now.

In other words, don’t try to teach your granny to suck eggs. I’m pulling rank on you in this issue.

Germany is far from perfect. With regard to employment, Germany has the opposite problem to Ireland; low unemployment but high levels of working poor due to massive increases in the cost of living but no comparative increase in wages. That’s not good.

Ireland has high unemployment but wage and salary levels above the EU average. Workers demand more in Ireland because cost of living is high, but this obviously means job creation is not an easy option for an employer.

Raising the minimum wage in Ireland is insane. Rather than increasing worker’s income, a sincerely socially aware politician would look at ways to lower the cost of living and so increasing worker wealth without increasing an employer’s overheads.

And don’t talk about situations in other countries when you’re clearly working on second-hand facts and received wisdom. If you do, you’ll get caught out and you’ll end up with some of that egg I mentioned earlier all over your face.

You have a point,can a bankrupt state afford any minimum wage.

Just so I am clear John, you confirm my entire point and then say I have egg on my face because you have lived outside the country you’re debating for the last eight years? We already give corps a freee ride with corp tax, now people are suggesting we give them a free ride on wages, all in some naive notion that if it works in one of the worlds most powerful countries with an industrial history that it’ll work here. Don’t give up the day jobs lads!

@Richard – 1. The state can’t afford the non existance of a minimum wage – it would mean more subsidising, more health services being required due to malnutrition and homelessness, not to mention less income tax as the wages would be less! 2. The state doesn’t pay the minimum wage, businesses do so perhaps you should have thought out your point before rambling off a mixed up aul cliche!

Nonsense killjoy why would people work if they got more on the scratcher. People deserve a fair wage for working. A proper living wage not just enough to survive, working just to pay bills, mortgage etc, its no life. Workers make the money for these companies and should be compensated accordingly

@ D – Try reading before answering.

You do not live in Germany yet you feel somehow that you’ve superior knowledge to people who do live there.

You’re a spoofer.

Your perception of Germany is 10 years out of date. Germany no longer has a significantly lower cost if living than Germany. It did, but that was a long time ago.

Alcohol is cheaper. Tobacco is cheaper, but it is very quickly rising. Germany used to be below the average for tobacco, now it is significantly above average.

Health insurance is far more expensive; the average would be 300 euro per month. Taxes are higher in Germany. Water charges and rubbish charges equally so. Medicinal charges, if not covered by insurance, are currently at five times the cost in Ireland. Costs in Aldi/Lidl in both Ireland and Germany for non-duty products is currently at parity for the vast majority of products

Petrol was and is more expensive in Germany than in Ireland..

Rent in a German city is, at best, 80% of the equivalent in Dublin.

The average industrial wage in Germany is approx. 18,000, significantly less than in Ireland. Costs are not proportionally less.

So, face facts; you were spoofing, you were wrong, you were talking through your hole. You just like being an Internet know-it-all.

Go out in the world before you talk about it, just to make sure the pictures in your head match the reality.

Says the fella who is talking about Ireland and he doesn’t even live here. I have actually studied it for your information as well by the way but don’t let that stop you jumping to conclusions or anything like.

That’s all great lads but how would increasing the minimum wage decrease the number of unemployed people, it would just make people a little better off for which in return goods and services would become more expensive.

Steve I agree with you, it’s just amazing how people jump the gun and presume they know what someone is saying. I merely requested ISME were a bit more constructive in their criticism and that abolishing minimum wage is a stupid idea which will not work in Ireland and will only lead to further social inequality, put more stresses on social services and lead to further hardship. Abolishing min wage only lines corporates pockets, nothing more! Pretending that it will be good for the Irish people is grossly disingenuous and moronic!

Abolishing the minimum wage is probably a stupid idea and I don’t think that ISME think that will happen, I’m just speculating here but could ISME’s problem with the minister be that she can’t control her own department spending so she is interfering with their businesses.

Well, I did spend 33 years there and I send on average 2 months a year there, I have family and investments there, and I hold a valid Irish passport.

I have very bloody right to talk about Ireland and Germany, as I have a lot of first-hand experience of both.

Stop being a gimp.

Your resort to personal insults for the past 2 replies prove you are not mature enough to have a coherent debate with someone without childish personal insults to someone you have never met and therefore your credibility is shot!

But Steve her point is, which I believe to be very valid, taking aside external factors, Irish workers paid by companies that ISME represent are reliant on her dept for subsidies cause they can’t survive on their wages. I understand that macro factors have alot to do with that, but nevertheless, that is proof they are very much linked. She is trouble shooting, something we should expect from a paid minister. She is trying to reduce govt spending (which we all have an interest in) without financially impacting on the least well off. I think it’s a fantastic suggestion which warranted more of a reaction from the boys club ISME than some throw away patronising remark. Just remember, Joan is looking out for societies interests, ISME are self indulging and couldnt care less that children are starving tonight!

Diarmaid, they are reliant because costs are so high, decrease costs and this reliance goes away.

I’ve already said I agree with you. I know that! But Burtons brief is not to lower costs for the membership of a patronising lobby like ISME, her job is to ensure social protection takes place but also reduce her depts spending. That’s what WE THE PEOPLE tasked her with and thats exactly what she is doing!

@ D – I’m only lowering myself down to the bar you’ve set here yourself with your own comments.

What I find odd, and a little distasteful, is how someone such as yourself, with such a high regard of your own intellect, is sponging off the social welfare instead of putting that intellect to good use by generating a taxable income.

That alone would do far more to help the country than any amount of hot air you’ve blown on the site over the last 18 months.

As I said, you’re a gimp. Or rather, you’re a gimp suit without anything other than emptiness inside the pleather.

“Patronising lobby”, as apposed to the Labour Party

I am on illness benefit as I am chronically ill since Dec 2011, which is the only reason I am unable to work in the company I set up 3 years ago. I still have that company I set up myself which I do intend to go back to, thanks for more personal insults and assumptions though John.

Steve, if you’re looking for a Labour apologist, you should go elsewhere, I am NOT your man ;-)

Good post.
Industries will move and create jobs in the least costly countries.

Ireland sadly taxes employment!
Employers PRSI etc.

Policies need to change urgently.

Otherwise our children will all emigrate

Those that post red do not seem to understand the problems in Ireland

So your answer to abolishing the minimum wage is work or starve? Or to put it another way “Arbeit macht frei”, isn’t that right Herr Killjoy?

Apt name by the way.

Health insurance in Ireland is now too expensive for most people. Certainly people on the minimum wage can’t afford it and most qualify for medical cards.

The Minimum Wage only came into being in 2000. By your logic there must have been 100% employment before then?
Do you really believe we should operate the economy on the basis of work or starve?

John you don’t have the experience of trying to live and bring up a family on minimum wage in Ireland right now. Look at what organisations like the Vincent De Paul have to say about the current situation, they are on the front line, they are the ones who know what they’re talking about.

Killjoy you must be a greedy owner yourself to go on like that,look at the cost in this country is so high people are scraping to pay bills that are on minimum wage,so it would be fair with the extra 89 euro a month to help a lot and also the tax would be 70 euro a month only,I Hate Greedy People

Or junkies.

The banks paid their executives millions, and got monkeys !

Every Owner is using the excuse of recession,its time for them to make the millions that they lost from the last few years back even do they still made profit even on recession because if they were not to make profit they would not keep a business running.Out With The Greed