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'It is no function of the State to supplement fee-paying schools' - TUI

The teachers’ union wants the State to end its financial support for private schools.

THERE HAVE BEEN calls made this morning for the government to end State subvention for fee-paying schools.

They come after Department of Education analysis found Ireland’s 55 so-called private schools have an additional €81.3 million available to them to spend on extra teachers, facilities and extracurricular activities.

The Teachers’ Union of Ireland (TUI) welcomed the report with General Secretary John MacGabhann telling Morning Ireland it was long-promised.

“It confirms what the the TUI has been consistently saying over the past four to five years. Which is that there is an unconscionable amount of money, taxpayers’ money provided to schools that are independently well-off.”

The research showed that the discretionary income works out at an average of €1.48 million for each school. However, there were discrepancies depending on number of students enrolled and amount charged (a range of €2,550 to €10,065).

“These are fine schools, there is no question about that,” continued MacGabhann. “We do not for a second contest the right of parents to choose to send their children to fee-paying schools. Our contention is that it is no function of the State to supplement that choice or underwrite that choice.”

He noted that there are currently State schools “in dire straits and in need of teachers”.

The report found that if the pupil-teacher ratio was raised to 28:1 in fee-paying schools and the State ceased its subvention, the schools would lose out on about €20 million of its discretionary income, leaving them with a total of €61 million.

“In the context of the Leaving Certificate, which is a high-stakes exam faced by all students from all sorts of backgrounds, it is the function of the State to provide the best standard education that is high-quality for all,” added the TUI spokesperson.

He said the fact that fee-paying schools can provide smaller classes, additional subjects and more teachers is “distorting” to the system, favouring those students in private schools over those already disadvantaged.

MacGabhann said it is now “incumbent on the Minister to act in line with the irrefutable logic of the report” and “reduce and eventually eliminate the subvention to these schools”.

The TUI wants the State to continue to provide teachers as public servants to these schools but for them to repay the State the cost of the teacher allocation. Such a system would ensure quality and qualification checks.

Labour TD Eamonn Maloney echoed the sentiment.

In a statement, the Dublin South West deputy noted that private schools operate in other countries without a State subsidy.

“Working-class children can never avail of the many advantages of attending a private school, not because they lack brains but because their families are not sufficiently well off. In this Republic, citizens have propped up this discrimination against the children of the less well off for years.”

Poll: Should the State subsidisation of fee-paying schools end?

Fee-paying schools have extra €81.3m for teachers and facilities

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30 Comments
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    Mute Deirdre Nuttall
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:41 AM

    I agree with the union. And schools’ admission policies need to change at the same time. Many wholly state-funded schools currently discriminate in favour of children from certain religious backgrounds, or in possession of a baptism cert, which is absolutely appalling.

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:45 AM

    Every child in the State is entitled to an education so what is so wrong if parents can top up that education with their own money? If the State pulled this funding then the fee paying schools could all pull the plug and go non-fee paying which would probably cost more in the long run.

    106
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    Mute Reg
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:50 AM

    If all the fee paying schools suddenly became state schools it would cost the state an additional €25 million per year.

    74
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    Mute Alien8
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:40 AM

    There will always be a market for private schools, and they will always be tailored to make high achievers of wealthy families. Subsidising private schools with money allocated to public education will not change this. If all private schools became private, the overall education level would be lower, and there would be an increase in overall costs, but this would never ever happen and the private schools know it.

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    Mute Tom Quinn
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    Mar 5th 2013, 1:21 PM

    Lets get one thing straight. The state does not fund private schools. It pays teachers in all schools to educate all children. All curriculum based teachers are public servants and it does not matter if the school they are in is public, private, religious or nondenominational, the state should pay their wages so as each child in the country gets a free education. That’s a social principle this country should not give up. We live in a country in which each child is entitled to a free education. It does not matter if that child is black, white, rich, poor, religious, agnostic, atheist………they are entitled to a free education provided for by the state.

    Now for those who can afford it, because they earn it, they should be allowed to then further pay on top of that as they see fit for their kid’s education. Some people get grinds for their kids. Some send there kids to Irish schools during the summer. Some send their kids to other countries on exchanges so as they can learn a foreign language better and some others send their kids to schools in which you pay to get added value. You get better facilities; a larger range of educational programs; more after school actives; more choice of sports to do etc etc………They pay for these extra add-ons through their money which they earn and pay tax on. Many families make a lot of sacrifices to ensure their kids have this opportunity.

    To force private schools to pay for their own teachers will result in swades more kids going to state funded schools, costing the state more. Some private schools will close or become public schools, costing the state more. What would be left is a public school system costing the state more and the emergence of the mega private school in which only the very richest in the country will go, as it will cost at least €15000-20000 a year to send a kid. Then we really will have top heavy elitism in this country.

    Let me pose another question. Each kid in the country is entitled to a free pre-school place at the age of 3-4. If someone is sending their child to a creche already should they have to pay for their preschool place? Should people who earn and save their money, pay their taxes get nothing at all back from the state?

    73
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    Mute Tom Newell
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:48 AM

    but then if we dont help pay for theses schools where will the next generation of silver spoon fed political and banking off spring come from who have done such a wonderful corruption job on this country and what about the poor cocaine dealers who will have the money now to buy the party drug at the weekend if mammy and daddy rich have to increase the fees for little rich jimmys school and not give him his lavish pocket money

    60
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    Mute Reg
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:06 AM

    You mean like Seán FitzPatrick (Presentation College, Bray) and Michael Fingleton (St. Nathy’s College, Ballaghaderreen). Not exactly known for the silver spoon brigade I would have thought!

    46
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    Mute Belly Up
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:09 AM

    The vast majority of politicians in this country did not attend private fee paying schools.

    44
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    Mute Joe Conway
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:36 AM

    Should the children in fee paying schools not receive a similar subvention as those on non fee paying schools? At the moment children in fee paying schools cost the state less than those in non fee paying schools. Lets cut off our nose to spite our face, force the schools to go onto the public system, and actually cost the state more. That just doesn’t make any sense.

    49
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    Mute Alien8
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:42 AM

    The vast majority of politicians children go to private schools. The fact that their parents did not, show it is just an esteem thing.

    28
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    Mute richie meade
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:50 AM

    You can bet their kids do

    11
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    Mute Carl Douglas
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:47 AM

    I find it odd that the union is advocating for the state to stop payments of teachers who work in Private Schools. Why would a teachers union be lobbying for a position that will surely hurt some of its members?

    55
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    Mute Jim Flavin
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    Mar 5th 2013, 12:35 PM

    ”They come after Department of Education analysis found Ireland’s 55 so-called private schools have an additional €81.3 million available to them ”
    So – more hypocrisy – the Private schools are subsidized by the State . This should stop immediately . If parents want to educate their offspring Privately – let them pay for it .

    24
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    Mute Frank Bohan
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    Mar 5th 2013, 1:04 PM

    …so set up truly private Schools and ban annual donations and funds raising in all public schools? Private schools would pay higher wages and bonuses, attract the best teachers and send the underperformers back into a public education system? Teachers Union of Ireland may have a point here!

    5
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    Mute John Foley
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:47 AM

    @Sinead are we going to have a post on the other side of the debate, or will thejournal.ie continue to a leftist platform?

    23
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    Mute Carl Douglas
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:54 AM

    Of course they won’t! They’re really going to push this issue now. Someone on the editorial team must have been refused from a private school. Axe-to-Grind.

    25
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    Mute Free Ireland
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    Mar 5th 2013, 10:55 AM

    Toffe

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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:02 AM

    John, Carl

    There’s been no reaction from ‘the other side of the debate’ as you say.

    Thanks
    Sinéad

    33
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    Mute John Foley
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:13 AM

    Sinéad,

    Would you not take this opportunity to seek comment from the other side and give us thejournal.ie reader a now common place, the journal “exclusive”? Rather than predictable reactionary journalism.

    Thanks,
    John

    12
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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:19 AM

    Have sought it John.

    28
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    Mute John Foley
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:30 AM

    Good stuff Sinéad, apologies, having just browsed my last comment it may come across as little condescending, that wasn’t my intention is was more to get the frustration of my point across.

    7
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    Mute Carl Douglas
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    Mar 5th 2013, 12:20 PM

    Stop pandering mate.

    19
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    Mute William O'Shea
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    Mar 5th 2013, 12:34 PM

    @John & Carl, are you suggesting Sinead censors “the other side”? Posts will come in when people have something to say…… in this instance “the other side” are obviously doing well, no need to comment when one is on the pigs back!

    15
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    Mute John Foley
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    Mar 5th 2013, 12:50 PM

    @William I have not suggested that the journal censors stories, maybe they are more selective to cater to their audience, however, could we please refrain from socialist clichéd slogans drummed out time and again and try to debate the current topic in the moment, rather than dealing in sanctimonious tripe which will inevitable be ensued by chorused rabble rousing.

    6
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    Mute Carl Douglas
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    Mar 5th 2013, 1:09 PM

    No William I am not suggesting Sinead Is censuring stories but there is no doubt there is a left wing agenda in play within the journal.

    6
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    Mute DJ Hassett
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    Mar 5th 2013, 1:24 PM

    If ye don’t like it lads don’t use it! It’s as simple as that really!

    13
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    Mute Carl Douglas
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    Mar 5th 2013, 1:33 PM

    News outlets are supposed to cover news in a fair and balanced way, it’s called ethics.

    9
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    Mute John Foley
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    Mar 5th 2013, 1:50 PM

    Not wanting to shout you down @DJ, but you must admit you are being a little obtuse. This not an episode of “Tallafornia” which may offend ones delicate sensibilities. This is a public forum which helps shapes the reader outlook on their society. I think it would a disservice for me not to point out what I think are the flaws of the forum.

    4
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    Mute Morgan Finucane
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    Mar 5th 2013, 7:27 PM

    Simple really, all schools are fee paying. €10 for a no uniform day, €5 for a hot dog in a bun for lunch, €100 voluntary contribution… €5000 for extra facilities. Those that have more pay more and get more. Been that way in a lot of ways for many things since time immemorial. The real focus should not be at the top but raising the bar at the bottom.

    9
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    Mute Keith McNair
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    Mar 5th 2013, 11:35 AM

    Why does the state dominate the provision of education in the first place? Surely it is the governments job to govern, not to run enterprises? Ought not the government focus on ensuring that enterprises that provide education – be they church based or private or whatever – do so to a recognised standard. The staffing of the school, the management and development of the site, does not need to be a public sector responsibility – partly because the public sector is grossly inefficient and also because public sector dominance diminishes community response-ability. If the state is going to allocate any taxpayers money to any school surely it should be on an equitable basis to all schools, no matter who runs the school, with of course the option for any school to opt out of state subsidy and state recognised accreditation.

    8
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