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A NEW POLL has found that nearly 30 per cent of people who are eligible to pay the property tax do not intend to do so while two-thirds believe the new measure is an unfair tax.
The Red C poll published in today’s Sunday Business Post has found that 71 per cent of people who are eligible to pay the local property tax intend paying but a sizeable amount, 29 per cent, say they do not intend paying it.
Sixty-seven per cent of the over 1,000 people who were polled on Monday, Tuesday and Wedneday last week say that the tax is unfair while 33 per cent disagree that it is unfair.
Half of those polled say they are worried the Revenue Commissioners will fine them for incorrectly calculating their property tax.
Meanwhile, 59 per cent of those polled say they are less likely to support government parties as a result of the property tax while 41 per cent disagree with this statement.
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They get @ couple of billion from road tax a year wtf do they do with that because its not spend on the roads. So we pay prsi.usc.property tax.car tax.tv license.soon to be water tax .carbon tax .vat. We have no more money to tax. And another thing the goverment saved millions a year by privatising the bin collection what did they do with the savings?
What about all them toll bridges too hmmm?
F O Higgins with your BS
Higgins – u are the worst advert for FG … FO and think of something else to tax with your moron pals – sunny day tax perhaps ?
Dave. You mean they go to the bondholders pot and ringfenced for IMF loans that are going to destroy the future generations of this country.
Same way Leo relocated 30 million for CIE? Then took it back, and didn’t say much about it so you lads can turn the masses against cie?
2 comments of abuse Higgins…
You would know if i insulted you pal ;-)
David Higginss reminds me of the Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, There are only two American tanks in the city.”
“We are winning!”
John Power is spot on what are Fine Gael and Labour doing with all our cash
Your point is flawed. Funds go to bond holders instead of schools, hospitals etc…..so you tunnel visioned “leaders” will not listen to those that elected you. Stop screwing our country. Yoj promised change during the last election, where is it?
Any chance you might respond David Higgins? Id love to hear a politicians opinion on how we are paying bond holders while we have to charitably redevelop the children’s hospital in Crumlin.
@john Dont forget the internet tax Pat Ribbit intends to bring in now too to prop up RTE.
€42m? Like buying one tin of paint and hoping it will do the whole house…..
While were at road tax. Why dont we all pay the same rate i have a 10 year old ford which costs 670 to tax while someone who can afford a brand new bmw would pay less
Higgins your just a government stooge gimp master.. Reading your bullshite this early on a Sunday annoys me terribly .. I need a untaxed weed joint and cup of coffee..
wow David €42 million. It wont even put a dent in it. Its about 30km of motorway in the Uk for that much.
He won’t reply. He never does once he is asked anything off the bulllet point list he has been given by his leaders.
He is doing a great job of turning people against his party.
This is like imposing a tax on our savings like in Cyprus
I think John that a section of people in this country are propping up the rest including half of Eastern Europe and Nigeria. Not alone the families dotted all over the country whom live off the state, never worked and never intend to, it won’t last for ever.
If you carry on with your nonsense posts you will get abuse . We’re being robbed and the people in here are giving their own opinions and just because you don’t agree with it. As a 38 year old I think the maturity level in here is of a mature nature and people are annoyed about constantly getting money taken from there pockets.
The big mistake this government is making is that it’s inflicting too many different taxes. It seems like we’re being taxed for everything. If they need to raise more money (I’d prefer if they cut spending first) then I feel they would have been better off adding a new “over 100k” tax rate of 50%. Also add 2% to the lower rates. It would have been quick and easy to implement and people would have got used to it by now. All this “register yourself” and “asses yourself” is just adding insult to injury.
Andy, the government are setting a precedent with croke park 2. They have decided that €65k is a high earner. Mark my words a third level of tax will be introduced in a few years and it’ll be set at €65k if croke park 2 is implemented.
How can people not see this? It’s getting almost no media commentary, this is the way government work, set a precedent for one small group and a few years later introduce it for everybody. You’ve been warned.
Hoe about a even wackier notion. How about absolutely NO new taxes or increases BUT we shut all the major loopholes. And by the way any if you super rich want to complain or carry on avoidance. We’ll see you down at the airport to wave you off and then renege yer passport. Grow some people of Ireland. It’s our own who are doing the most damage….
Enda, the jig is up, you went to far with the property tax its time to go.
Ah come on david, wasn’t the property tax inconsistent with FG and Labour policies a mere two years ago, look at how they reformed the FF version once they got in.
There is no difference between FG and FF.
All amateur business people getting extraordinary pay. They are out of their depth and their simplistic policies of increase tax spend nothing is disastrous for everybody but Government employees and PR companies. Ask the man on the street or the shop owner how confident they are about these green shoots and tunnels….
Politics really is showbiz for ugly people as so many of these people have no substance whatsoever.
Adebaaayo
Where’s Robin Hood when you need him….the evil Sheriffs of Rottinham are taxing us to death?
Agree. Enda was supposed to burn bond holders and send the IMF packing. Instead he has secret meetings with Trilateral and Bilderberg Group and hey presto we start taxing homes and selling of assets like trees, water and power. It’s Argentina all over again folks. Pay this tax and you are agreeing to selling your grandchildren into monetary slavery.
As the Manic Street Preachers sang “if you tolerate this, then your children will be next”
This is only another version of what’s going on in Cyprus. They are taking 20% of our savings just calling it something different.
If they took it out of savings it would have a lesser effect on the economy as that is money that is not currently in circulation, unlike when you take it out of wages,pensions or social welfare you are taking it out of the general economy.
lets call it what it is a home property tax with many more to follow ,this toxic government are only puppets for criminal bankers who have us by the short and curlys and want our savings to bail out there bad investments ,FF FG LAB GREENS have and will support these criminals in there campaign of destruction and greed of our country ,it is there for all to see our finest have and are leaving in numbers not seen since the famine white collar crime is at epidemic levels ,the state media machine RTE and all newspapers are also in bed with these criminals .
Your right dermot, and in any other country they would be tearing up the streets but here we have protests on weekends so we dont cause too much disturbance.
Look at what is happening in Venezuela. US interests are bank rolling the opposition to allow them to move back in and take the country’s natural resources. I am just shocked that the Irish people are taking this laying down. We threw of the shackles of the British only to fall foul of the banks. Enda should be ashamed.
Enda didn’t create this problem. And should not be blamed for our state alone. In fact everyone in this nation should taje sone blame for the state we are in.
However, based on the actions of our government. .. It is very un-Irish to accept blame. It isn’t the norm to admit failure or to resign. It is easier to have a tribunal convened to find circumstantial fault, which can dismissed.
Enda might not have created the problem, but he stated that he would burn bondholders and unburden the Irish State from private debt. He did the opposite. He turned private debt into sovereign debt and paid off all of the unsecured bondholders – who I might add got in after the crash to profiteer on the misery of the Irish people. The original bondholders had already sold their investments and moved on. He has set up a fascist government, where 3 or 4 people make the decisions for the whole Government. He has installed himself as dictator and Michael Noonan as his Lutz Graf Schwerin von Krosigk……. Regarding the Irish people taking some of the blaim for this, you are off-base. Yes, we may have borrowed to buy houses, cars and so forth, but we are (in the main) still paying back our debts. The banks and the Government colluded and broke the country. If we were not burdened with bank debt, at the behest of the ECB, we would be on the road to recovery.
If I had a 100 euro I would be up all night minding it
I’d rather have €100 than 100 friends
I wouldnt
Personally I’m going to pay it. Not because I agree with it but because there gong to take from me one way or another anyway. I do know though, when they come looking for my vote they can f……
Why make it easy? Let them try find you and take it at source. Willingly signing up to give away money just doesn’t make sense.
So they can take more with the interest and charges?
…interesting argument Kenny. Yet, each Thursday you have no problem finding the Post Office for your “entitlement”….funny that!
coward
By kenny i presume you mean lenny?
Problem wit your typing there James?
And yeah i will be going to the post office to collect every benefit under the sun if we keep gettin lashed out of it wit taxes, ill make a stand, ill stop paying them :-D barely worth my while working anyway with the amount i do pay :-D plus i could make some serious chedar illegally… Don’t tempt me :-D:-D
Scott, understand your exasperation. .. However, you implied that tour recourse for paying the tax is redirecting your vote. My question is…. Are either of the major parties different then the others? I’m challenging you… I just would like to understand how voting for either party (FF and FG) would make any difference in the way this country is run?
Your right Marlon, voting FF FG makes no difference. What I’d like to see would be an alternative rise to the top but in reality this wont happen. Quite often these Parties though do change policy’s at whim to get the populist vote..
Apologies Leonard, I got your name wrong, my bad. I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. Are you unemployed or employed? You stated in a previous thread you were unemployed, which is it….for the sake of clarity of course!
Im employed James. But if i keep paying this colossal amount of taxes and charges it would better for me to become unemployed and milk everything i can :-D
Folks don’t you understand that by not pay your taxes you are potentially committing a crime? Furthermore, the act will not resolve anything. The situation in how the government deals with taxes needs to be addressed. Just because they increase taxes or introduce new taxes doesn’t mean the deficit or issue is going to be fixed.
Honestly, does anyone know the last time our nation or your county had a balanced budget?
“Coward” some keyboard warrior you are..
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Scott u sheep. baaaaaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaaaaaaa
………keyboard warrior and childlike
fool. hand over your money. you desevre to have it taken off you. sickens me that ppl like me are standing up for cowards like you………… keyboard warrior? no my friend. u get that off ur playstation… wasted enough time on you now. keep on doing what your told coward. fetch scott ….. good boy :)
Im shocked 70% are paying this further bond holder tax. It really is as simple as this. We pay tax already and a wide scale / we (or our government) are paying foreign wealthy groups for a bet that did not pay out (i.e. like a Paddy Power money back special). So, as our tax is covering free bets, our civic services require funding but we’re covering free bets so how can we/our government fund this? By this property tax along with a social charge, sell our trees, giving away our oil (has everyone seen the video on Norway doing the facebook rounds, if not go find it) and gas, increasing PRSI, water charges, house hold charge. I’ll not be paying 1 cent Not 1, until the bond holders are burned. Free bets are not for this Country to dish out so please stand up to these people we elected (due to lack of options) and say no to paying this and the other taxs until the bond holders are told where to go.
Thanks.
Barry, If you do not pay by the due date you will pay 100 per cent of the tax, plus interest, plus penalties. Even if it takes x years, they will get the money one way or another. Even leaving the country won’t help. Save yourself the hassle, pay up
Lie.
Hundreds of thousands didn’t pay the household charge and apart from a small few cases they were never charged or fined. The government are trying to get money through fear of the revenue.
@ Paul L , people like you are what’s wrong with this country, willing to bend the knee and pay up at the first sign of adversity. If you were bring screwed over in the work place with a significant deduction in wages coupled with extra hours of free labour for you bosses benefit would you just say oh well there going to get it one way or another so I may as well not make a fuss? Or would you fight and go on strike and oppose the injustice even if it meant loseing a week’s wages? This is the same concept the government are trying to screw us all, so do we bend over and take it or do we fight back! I know which one I’ll be doing
@ Paul L , people like you are what’s wrong with this country, willing to bend the knee and pay up at the first sign of adversity. If you were bring screwed over in the work place with a significant deduction in wages coupled with extra hours of free labour for you bosses benefit would you just say oh well there going to get it one way or another so I may as well not make a fuss? Or would you fight and go on strike and oppose the injustice even if it meant loseing a week’s wages? This is the same concept the government are trying to screw us all, so do we bend over and take it or do we fight back! I know which one I’ll be doing
You are correct , many people didn’t pay the household charge and this has now been transferred to Revenue. They will now pay it plus charges. I wish people would understand that the Revenue have unlimited power to take money or value from the citizens .
Hi Paul. See your view. If we the people say no on mass then it’s going to be equal to take % from our accounts like Cyprus. That got global coverage as theft on citizens. Lets see the government dip into 50% of our revenue and not create a global interest. We all need to grow a pair.
Ok Conor, you are sitting at home enjoying breakfast when a letter from Revenue drops through the letterbox. It has a diagonal red line through the contents and it sets out what you owe and how much you are now going to pay. You may have the biggest balls in the country but they have squeezers to fit. It’s just stupid to compare Revenue collection to workplace defiance. I have felt those pliars and it is not a pleasant experience
Well then lets stand up to them as a group. We pay them, employ them and elect them. We should be able to put them down too.
Power???? Lol . Any power they have is consensual . It’s a business transaction or contract , so it will be dealt that way .
paul you talk nonsence this goverment is on the verge of collapse the big boys in labour have their pensions its good bye edna
€750,000,000 debts left in local authorities , as a result of non-payment of bills by property developers =property developers tax .
Quiet Sean – that is to be brushed under the carpet.
Fully agree with your point – FF\FG\LAB\SF – did they know that this was building? If not why not.
Incompetence all round and no accountability …
I have a couple of questions? I’ve been living legally in this country for a number of years dutifully paying my taxes and abiding by all laws. However, I’m unsure how my tax money is spent. In the US, a yearly budget is published for the public to view. Each year, before the new budget can be published, the old budget is compared with the actual spending of the previous year.
Each city is responsible for their own budget and spending. If over spend it is their issue. And they have to resolve the issue for themselves. If the cities run afoul of administering federal (nation sponsored money) then the increased federal investment is lowered or flatten.
All of this to ask… Is our budget and balances publicly accessible? If not why?. I believe if we the tax payer knew how our money was being soent, we would feel better about paying.
Oh God Marlon there you go again using common sense it doesn’t work like that here :)
The Irish government both at local and national level like to treat us like mushrooms and keep us in the dark ;)
You are living in…One of the most corrupt… back scratching… its who you know no what you know… countries in the world unfortunately Marlon. It has to change and the people must go it together but no paying this robbing tax. You might as well be living in Nottingham we just need a robin hood to get the people fighting back before it s too late. Taxes will continue to increase and new ones made. They want to squeeze you for everything and treat us all like slaves.
Next question…. If it doesn’t work like this here. How do we change it?. Please note… Our politicians are suppose to be employed to represent us, do our collective bidding… In essence, we are their employers.
Hypothetical question… If any of us consistently mislaid, misappropriated or lost money on our jobs….. What wouod happen to us?
We change it by voting for independents who will seek a mandate from their constituents before agreeing any policy issues. Remove the party system and you remove corruption. Remember that the reason taxation was centralised away from local authorities was to control the influence of local democracy. The rise of left in councils had to be controlled. This process started with the foundation of the state and continued to present day. The latest anti-democratic move was to reduce the numbers serving in councils, while the seats in the Oireachtas remain the same.
So…. Let me get this right. After we a person into office… They no longer have accountability to the public tax payer. They are no longer considered an individual but that of their collective party which does not answer to the public and can only be reprimanded during an election and by an election. Otherwise, they have legal cause to act as they wish “in the name of the people”? Is this correct or am I misunderstanding the way things work here?
Thanks cor your response Dion. So you are saying that supporting Independents is the way forward. They are more apt to deal the with the needs of tbeir constituents? Revert taxation back to local taxation to local councils?
Not necessarily, but I see your point. One good idea emerging is the The People’s Convention (CPPC) [see link http://www.cppc.ie/. They suggest that each constituency selects their candidate and runs them in the election (local, national or european) and that they are responsible to their constituency, particularly relating to policy. Each policy question is a democratic decision of the constituents, not the politician, and therefore it empowers citizens to make the key decisions required. this removes the potential for corruption because if the candiadtae operates outside of his/her mandate he can be sacked.
They say “If we SELECT our own candidates before elections, ELECT them contracted to vote only on specific MANDATE and to be subject to CHECKUP and RECALL then the citizens will be empowered.
If we, as citizens, change the way we behave – by not handing our mandate over to any Party or individual – then we can control the entire political process.
We can have Local Authorities and an Oireachtas with NO opposition, just assemblies of the people’s representatives all acting on mandate from their own communities.
Each constituency convention is independent, in that there is no central policy to follow, other than adherence to the principles of democracy.” – check out the website.
Sorry Dion but are you really telling me that filling the Dail with Healy-Rae’s is going to lead to better, more accountable governance? It does not take a genius to see that the independents are no better than the party hacks.
Interesting Dion…. Very interesting. Can I ask… Do you think Ireland can change?
David, you miss the point. Healy-Rae is a Fianna Fail hack, he always stood firmly next to that party. Additionally, he and his kids are old style local politics. National politics should be for national issues, local politics, such as roads and so forth should be addressed at local level. Good independent TDs include Stephen Donnelly, Luke Flanagan and Finian McGrath. I might not agree with their politics but that they show that independence works. Once each TD/Senator/Councillor is directly accountable, on an on-going basis to their constituents, powerful lobbyists lose the ability to influence and politics starts to work for us, the people.
Dion I absolutely agree on your po8nts directed at David and I agree with uou to some degree at points made to me. What I have problem with is the business with the bondholders. For some reason, I don’t think its a black and white issue. I don’t think the government has been honest withus regarding all of the related issues, and I don’t think they disclosed all of the variablsOur government fail to be honest with us and they choose not to communicate with us.
From where I sit burning the bond holders could have had future consequences. I’m just not sure…. Regardless, I think your thinking is relatively sound. We are in the same camp.
Now what can people lioe ourselves turn this country around? I would love to hear some constructive ideas.
Marlon, i think that we have it in us to change, but I think we will need a major upheaval to achieve this. without the Unions out marching the rest of us are unlikely to. Look, when it comes down to it we first look out for ourselves (Wife, kids, Mom, dad, home etc…..) and then react to anything that effects us externally. If we are too busy trying to pay a mortgage and keep food on the table we are less likely to challenge the political process, unless we are encouraged by others to take to the streets. Make is easy to do and people will get involved…
Regarding any elections that are coming up. I suggest that anyone with a home PC and printer can effect some influence. find out how your local representatives have voted and if they are compromised then let your neighbors and friend know. Often the election is down to less than 100 votes either way……
Dion… I agree that is with in us…. However, I disagree that our personal responsibilities that we can’t make change. Having been a part of several grass roots campaigns in the states to cajole the government to make changes…. I found that everyone has time. Even with a busy schedule, everyone has time to give in order to make a difference and a better for our children. The time canbe 10 minutes a day, an hour a week or 5 hours a month. With direction and a good organizer, it can be done.
I’mnot saying that we start a physical or violent revolution. What I’m saying is that if few writers, poets and educators can pull together an army to revolt against this country’s ocuppiers….. Then we can pull together and control our government.
Marlon I don’t see enough Irish people getting off of their backsides until we get some major players mobilised. Hopefully, the collapse of Croke Park will force public service unions onto the streets followed by the rest of us.
Dion, thanks for taking the time to share your points of view. I will keep this in mind as I watch the journey of this crises as I await an opportunity to make a positive difference. I hope and pray that more people of this country will set aside their fears and make a bold statement.
I won’t be paying as I have paid enough tax when purchasing my home to get nothing in return I already pay for the upkeep of my estate to a private contractor as the council won’t take over the upkeep because ther is still empty houses and hoardings around old sites . It would seem you are being punished to give you and your family a better life . I have never drawn unemployment benefit and when I did lose my job I started my own business.all i have ever done is pay into this state. they can lock me up at this stage I just don’t care as far as I can see it will cost a lot more to put me away on a fri out on mon debt free they can’t lock everyone up . Don’t pay .rant over
+ 1,000000000000000000000000
It doesn’t matter, it’s deducted from source by Revenue, you won’t be able to not pay, it’s not like the Household Charge, essentially, the government can put their grubby hands into your bank account and take what they want on this tax
Blood from a stone.
that’s nearly 500,000 homes not gonna make it easy for revenue
It’s great to see so many people proud to pay this and other taxes and proudly boast what good little boys they are for doing so. I’m sure Enda and Phil and Angela are very proud of you and may even send you a gold star in the post. You might stick it on the fridge maybe! It’s great that you can denigrate and call people who won’t pay ‘scroungers’ too, it must make you feel nicely smug and superior, or is it just the wailing of beaten and downtrodden men who can’t stand up for themselves and want to drag others down to their level? You’re letting us and your country down.
That’s always been the mentality of the Irish, we used to do it to get approval from the religious orders and now that their not around as much we want our government to tell us were good little boys and girls and to give ourselves a pat on the head. A lot of Irish thrive on that warm fuzzy feeling in their belly when merkel tells us “were doing good but more needs to be done”, sickening and we all stood back and done nothing when the government took the disabled respite fund and mobility allowance. No backbone in the lazy Irish.
Just paying online now, that’s how I love to spend a Sunday morning.
Join legal challenge attackthetax.com free meetings nationwide or online all welcome
A tax that is unpopular with voters. Who’d have thought? As for the 30% who think they’re not going to pay it. I think the Revenue will have something to say about that.
I’ve paid mine – the futures right!
Paid mine yesterday.
Over 40 nationwide protests yesterday.
And not a mention by any of the Irish media. One thing that can’t be silenced is word of mouth.
12.30 13th of April. Parnell Square, Dublin.
Pierece, If it’s taking you an entire morning to pay online there’s something wrong with you or your computer, or possibly both.
3 minutes tops.
Oh revenue is goin to get us Kevin are they? Ooooohh is that your new boogeyman? Sure they are writing to teenagers who don’t even own homes lookin for a property tax hahaha. Just lookin to scare people into registering aren’t we Kevin?
Enda must have big windows damo…
I’m very old and the form is very confusing, think I need a nap now, to be honest I don’t really mind paying, there are taxes that I think are more unfair and governments waste that annoys the sh!te out of me. This comment will be follow by the usual insults and ennui.
If ye don’t mind paying pierce?
Will ye pay mine 2 pal, im smashed :-(
No bother would you take care of my car tax, quid pro quo
Leonard- there’s no need to scare anyone. Pay it, don’t pay it. Protest, don’t protest. Either way the revenue is empowered to put its hand into your wallet and take it out. A statement of fact, just.
Yeah no bother pal. Ill get a stamp of the lovely gardai to say its been off the road for a few months so ye won’t have any back tax. Im sure that just might make Kevin cry :-)
So revenue are pickpockets now Kevin?
When did this revenue bloke grow hands?
@kevin is right they will ride us one way or another. Only difference is the 30% will end up paying more than the 70% in fines next year. I wouldn’t mind paying it if it was put into a transparant pot and publicly monitored as it was spent, ie accounts published in the papers every year etc.
Lenny, Pierce is a confused tired old man, don’t try to take advantage of him.
Kevin is really Enda kenny he spends alot of time on here,i thought Enda would have alot to keep him busy
What time are the visitors coming?
@kevin shaw. Do you know what percentage of this ‘local property tax’ is going to local government to fund local services!?
Thanks Leonard … I didn’t know about the Dublin march … We have to all stick together on this one ….. Cc Higgins … Don’t reply to this …. Go sell your shite elsewhere …
You weren’t meant to know about it dodzer… That’s the thing ;-)
The most unfair tax their is.some people paid a massive amount of stamp duty on their homes and now we have to pay again.double taxation,just because a politician changes it to be law doesn’t mean it’s right.
If the government had the balls to really stand up to the unions they would get a management consultant firm from outside the state to go through every single state job in the country and justify it. If it cannot be justified out you go with your 2 week statuatary. The country would save billions and there be no need for any property tax. I hoped the IMF would have done this but I was sadly disapointed. I understand this would not be popular but neither is the property tax.
Aaa Jaysus Galwaybay, you can’t sack someone for not doing there job. This is Ireland.
Galway , government should be small,
agreed
Removing people great but you will be paying them dole , rent allowance etc.
And the big shots, who are the problem will be given a bonus for streamlining the service
It’s the big shots I’d be hoping the international management team would be getting rid off. As for the doles rent allowance ect these rates would be alot less than paying wages to people who are doing nothing productive
“Meanwhile, 59 per cent of those polled say they are less likely to support government parties as a result of the property tax while 41 per cent disagree with this statement.”……..so 41% really disagree with wording of the poll??….
It’s morally unjust to tax a persons home : Enda Kenny said this in 1994, the lying bastard !! this government have taxed us way too much it’s time we stood up and made a stand against this !!! Even the most loyal Fine Gael supporters are loosing faith rapidly .
I’d love to own a house. If you can spend a hundred euro in a pub on a weekend, you can pay the tax. I agree however that the way to tax more and more everything because of politics fails it’s scandalous.
However this is to add to gas increase, electricity increase, VAT increase and so on.
I have to add people who don’t pay the Motor Tax, don’t pay/do the NCT test, etc
€100 in a pub at the weekend? Are you crazy? I suspect less than 1% of the people spend anything like that.
That’s €5,200 on drink a year.
Most people have less than €100 disposable income each MONTH after all the bills are paid and groceries are bought.
There are many spending €100 a week in the pub at least…Take a look outside the door of a pub in a Thursday morning or a Monday or Wednesday evening when there is Champions League/Premiership Football on. It’s mainly those who don’t have to worry about taxes….
I’m not paying this tax. Not because I’m in your horrendous stereotype you describe but because I can see we are being robbed to pay others. Wake up.
That’s it Barry don’t let them paint us as scroungers that’s what they tryin to do. Can’t pay and i won’t pay (willingly)
I couldn’t afford to go to a Pub, I have 2 kids, a mortgage & bills coming in the door daily, so this Tax is going to tip us over the edge.I wonder if our highly paid FF, FG & FG are in this state.You notice that I do not add SF into this group because there TDs are paid the average industrial wage with the reminder financing the employment of people in there offices, etc. it is a shame that the other Parties pocket all there salaries & appoint family members to there staff. Eamonn Gilmores wife, Helen McEntee, Senator Darragh O Brien’s sister!
All Gangsters!
The Property Tax is a relatively mild measure compared with what has to come. The price of survival will be high and especial costly to the most vulnerable. The approach will always be to take from those who have least.
We are facing horrible times and these horrible times will reveal the true characteristics of the Irish.
The Property Tax – which in reality has nothing to do with local services, can and will be defeated. The first chance to tell this despotic Fine Gael government (and their Labour lapdogs) that we the people of Ireland will not accept their unfair tax falls to the people of Meath East. Please, please Meath voters reject Helen Mc Entee, Fine Gael and Eoin Holmes, “Labour” Party.
It’s a bond tax, give it It’s correct name
The name is Bond……Junk Bond
bullshit. cowards will pay upfront. guaranteed.
To much to soon , should have been introduced over a four year period to give breathing space
It.’s speed was done to have it over and forgotten about before the election ,but it won’t work
FF won’t touch it ,if they get in in some sort of a mix Mach of a government or hopefully some new
party But it will have to be up and running shortly if one is to emerge
I’ll pay property tax if I don’t have to pay management fee’s for my apparent !! But paying both is just nuts !!!
@ Sinead, I also own an apartment and my service charge is high. The problem with the property tax is that it is not really being introduced to pay for services. Although 80 per cent is supposedly to be allocated to local services, there is no legal obligation to do this. The proceeds will go into the Central Exchequer. Some of the proceeds will substitute for what your income tax is already paying for. There is no semblance of fairness in this tax. It is being introduced because Fine Gael will not agree to an increase in the higher rates of income tax.
If you pay a management to look after your housing estate why should you pay property tax too !!! My management company have put up their bill by €177:00 a year I’d rather pay the property tax ( it works out cheaper for me ) but I’m sure as hell not paying both !!
Can anyone tell me if the €100 household charge is all forgotten about now, i didn’t pay it so have i saved myself some cash or will it be added to the new property tax, which im not paying either, if they want it they will have to come get it.
No Mike, not forgotten about. This has now increased to €130 if you pay it now but if you don’t pay by July 1st it will be increased to €200! It will also be passed to Revenue to be collected by force.
I haven’t paid it either Mike, tho scary to think it will be doubled in July & added to property tax. Can’t pay, Won’t pay!
Thanks Rita.
Jeepers, “Revenue will collect it by force”, i better keep the dog out the front, he hates the bast**ds too.
Hang in there Rita, plenty of folk say they aint paying, we may as well make it as difficult as possible for them to collect.
The problem is Mike, Revenue now have the power to dip into our bank accounts & just help themselves or take it directly from wages, pension, job seekers allowance, etc. We would need stronger protests & more people to take to the streets. We are far too docile for our own good.
You know I’ve nothing against higher tax. I think it’s a good idea. But I don’t like the idea of paying more when the Government can’t handle things. If they want more tax there should be a very clear well structured plan (that they probably would have to outsource) in place for where the tax is going. You can’t keep pissing people’s money away with a try try try again and then you might succeed attitude. I spent a few hours yesterday going over the property tax material and am yet to find a justification for it, an actual statement saying this is why we’re going to begin collecting property tax. Which would still be a minimum to expect and not even enough in and on itself. Until that’s provided this property tax is yet another not thought out idea of the government’s.
The comments are more entertaining than the article!! Bravo!!
Not that I wont pay, I cant pay. Im trying to leave Ireland leaving my children behind. I have to accept some responsibilty myself as I did make mistakes but so did the state so thats the legacy of Ireland as it had always & will continue to be. Broken homes broken families broken lives & a lot of broken people. Im no longer bitter about it just frightened I may never see these children again. I love this country & thats the most frustrating bit because it has never done a f##king thing for me.
Sad isn’t it? Im just looking into the future for my kids. I don’t care about me. I just want the best for them.
That is why I’ve had enough of this.
Why not do a poll on income tax, on VAT, and on the USC and see are the same two thirds of the population opposed to these taxes as well. Another Sunday, another worthless poll.
Kevin I’m sure most people would probably hold the view, as I do, that income tax is an acceptable and progressive tax i.e. the more the income earned, the more tax is likely to be paid. VAT (Value Added Tax) was intended as a “consumption tax” i.e. the more one consumes, the more tax one pays. So, probably not much argument could be put forward against VAT. However, USC is an entirely different animal. It is as close as makes no difference to the disastrous and indiscriminate Poll Tax which was introduced by the Thatcher Government in Britain in the 1970s and was the rock upon which that Tory Administration eventually perished. Now LPT (Local Property Tax) is yet another story. It is an unjust, unfair and immoral tax which takes no account of ability to pay. It is double taxation. Most damning of all is the fact that it is being levied on Family Homes. The Family Home is not a revenue earning or generating entity. Typically the Family Home is (1) the largest expenditure which a person is likely to make in a life time upon which significant taxes are paid at purchase and (2) the place of sanctuary for the family which, in a majority of cases, remains so for the lifetime of the original purchasers and or their children. It only becomes a potential asset if it is put on the open market for sale. So, for this Government, or any Government to consider the Family Home to be a free market asset which at a whim can be traded to release so-called equity solely for the purpose of the financial enrichment of the listed owner (i.e. wealth tax) is to completely miss the point as to why, in the first place, parents go to so much trouble and private financial cost (no cost to the state) to provide and maintain a Family Home. The bed rock of our society has always been the family. So, for any Government to financially undermine the security of the family in any way e.g. by the imposition of unjust, unfair and immoral taxes such as LPT, is sadly quite reprehensible. I must commend the Journal for conducting this poll and can only hope that the Journal will continue to ask the right questions of the electorate because it is only be so doing that we, the people, will have the opportunity, between now and the next ballot box, to make it quite clear to our apparently indifferent political masters that LPT has indeed been a tax too far and needs to be, sooner rather than later, withdrawn from Family Homes.
Well said Frank. The family home should not be taxed. I have a 2 bed apartment in north Dublin. This will now cost me €1400(management fee) plus approx €300 for LPT. When the water charges come in next year(or whenever it is), I will be paying a annual total of almost 2 Grand before I even start with my mortgage repayments. I feel like just handing my keys back to the bank and heading to England. I have been toying with the idea of paying the LPT and finally decided I will not be paying it. If enough people refuse to pay, FG and Lab will try and get Revenue to take it directly from pay and bank accounts and this will hopefully cause uproar and get people protesting for once and for all.
From these comments one senses a degree of ire from the populace, however how many will vote again for Fine Geal, Labour, Fianna Fail ?
Can someone clarify if the second home tax will still apply once the property tax is in?
Yes it will.
From my understanding it has been shelved, but I’m sure it could be reintroduced in a few years.
Next years Property tax payment is due in full on Jan 1st 2014
Your second home will be taxed in the same way as your home. You no longer pay the 200 euro per year it will be assessed as to its value.
Bruce,
The NPPR is being scrapped from end of 2013.
Google it to be sure.
Hands up if you are a property valuer? Oh, you’re not? Well in that case how can you be expected to value your own property, In fact, in these tough economic times I would suggest that not even a valuer could get it right. If you are going to pay this tax, I suggest that you look to auction prices, not what is in the high street auctioneers window, for guidance. For example check this out http://buyersbroker.ie/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/RESULTS-Allsop-Space-Property-Auction-Catalogue-March-1st-2013.pdf
Based on this – my home which I would have thought was worth at least €550-660K is more like (GULP!) €95,000
FG\AIB are hooks
The Celtic Tiger spoiled us. We cannot see that we are not so badly off. Immigrants are flooding into this country for the good life it offers while we do not want to pay a bit of extra tax to get us out of the s–t. Be patriotic. Pay up.
Why would you pay for something when you don’t know what its paying for?
I do know what I am paying it for. To help get us out of the financial mess we as a country currently find ourselves in. How would you propose to achieve that goal?
Bill, how about going after the builders, bankers and politicians that got us into this for a start.
Recoup as much money as legally possible from every single one, and make sure that some prison time is served.
That would be a great start.
Oh wait, that won’t happen. You can bet if the bankers and builders went down, they’d be bringing a few politicians with them.
I agree with you Damien with regard most of the above but if anarchy is the solution two thirds of home owners have got it wrong!
Anyone here got any actual solutions other than the tax that will help keep the lights on? Pay social welfare, Public services? As for those not paying, unless their ghosts its just BS.
Agreed! Why should I pay tax. They should take it off people who appear to have more money than me but I should be exempt
SF Wealth Tax. 1% on all assets (excluding working farmland) over €1million. Look to ESRI Sanford Report on 1974 wealth tax before anyone tries to argue that it’ll affect FDI. It does not. Conservative estimate of wealth tax, given by Noonan, was €500million. SF COSTED alternative is 0.5% GDP or €800million. Obvious, fair alternative.
Actual solution – cut spending to match income! Can’t afford current public sector and future public sector pension liability then tough luck public sector. Croke Park 1&2 sell outs make more and more tax inevitable.
Other solutions there are plenty if areas that could be looked at.
650million in foreign aid
The 1billion a year still given to fas
A blanket ban on all expenses of politicans senators, conucillors , civil servants.
how above levies on past TD pensions or better cap the pensions at €60k pa .
Levies on top bankers salaries,a ban on electing retired politicans to any company or bank boards
Stop the €100k + salaries paid to the very property developers that had a serious hand in the wrecking of the economy ,
.sell the gov jets.
Stop subsidising fee paying schools
Close the dail bar and restaurant.
.sell the national lottery
.put a 0.10 tax on the purcshase of a lotto ticket.
The number of quangoes and the salaries involved need to be overhauled (john delaney earns €360,000 a year …for what.
Pat kenny €600k+ pa).
reduce number of td,s ……no way we need 166, and change the law yo say cannot withdtaw pension until 67 like the rest of .
There,s plenty of scope for saving us money , just a lack of balls in dail eireann due to cronyism,
And i haven,t even included the hse in the above list.
Cut spending. Real reforms in PS not pay cuts. No more jobs for life. Only allow skilled immigrants. Fas Training courses in language and IT not building and forklift driving.
Fcuk the 3% deficit were at 7%, get to 5% and let the country grow for 2 years.
Some good stuff here (except Simon’s SF wealth tax – ask the French how that’s going). Though not enough to stave off LPT. Mark Hickey has best alternative. F*%k 3%, get to 5% and let us breathe…
Sean, agree will most, except
Sell national lottery, bad idea , makes money , never sell for a once of payment
Pension at 67 for all, nurses and guards , working at 66 , not a good idea, and I’m sure their are others, but no reason people sitting on the arse shouldn’t work on
How about we increase corp tax by a % or 2, close tax loopholes and tax avoidance schemes, local authorities actually make an effort to collect unpaid rates and water charges for dodging businesses, reform the student grant system to stop farmers and self employed cheating the system, eliminate state support for private schools, charge full costs for private insurance patients in public hospitals, cap the amount of relief on private pensions to a ‘normal’ amount, bring in real reform and price watching over doctor, dentist, solicitor etc fees, introduce measures to prevent black market/cash only work in all building and household repair trades.
All the above with raise billions, FG only want to target a certain section of society, labour were put into offer some balance and they have been hopelessly inadequate. Labour are more concerned with bringing in abortion and same sex marriage than representing the workers that voted for them.
And start by the nationalization of our oil and gas fields! If we can’t extract the oil. Leave it there! Why give it away?
Do we honestly need all these politicians and senators ?? Cut them in half and we save a huge wage bill !!!
Re your comment on charging people with private health insurance full cost in a public hospital, you are aware that we do also pay PSI so are entitled to care at a public hospital?
It seems anyone who tries to better themselves in this country, by paying for private health insurance, buying a second home, buying a nicer home or car etc, are to be penalised. Why? We aren’t all high earners you know. Do the people who moan the most spend their disposable income in the pub, bookies or the tobacconist?
LPT (Local Property Tax) is unfair, unjust and immoral double taxation and most definitely should not be next or near any Family Home. If you hold this view but sit on your hands then the new LPT reality will remain. It was a bad political choice, followed immediately by bad supporting law. It can be changed, but not without action on your part. If every Family Home Purchaser/Owner or interested party in Ireland organised a single A4 Petition list of 20 names for LPT removal from Family Homes and posted it to their Public Representatives it would be an unmistakably powerful message. Being done by individuals means that no political agenda is at play. Simple message – Remove LPT from Family Homes. Start your individual petitions now. You can get your blank petition sheets here: http://familyhometaxlpt.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/family-home-taxation-your-part-in-removing-lpt-from-family-homes/
Yep! I’m paying mine.
What is it that you are paying for ?
Oh dear! Services.
oh dear bill , what services ?
On fridays thread , david higgins put up a list of things he and FG believed it was for.
I outlined that 90% of the list we already paying for……..go check it out bill.
.
You are paying for the ,750,000,000 in unpaid debts left by the property developers(check out the info of this in the media back on monday or tuesday)
That may be so, Sean, but we all have to bite the bullet for now and sort this country out for the future. Why should two thirds of us pay your taxes?
Bill i pay all my taxes, i,m doing my best to keep my family above water,
Only to find a lot of the taxes i pay do not towards anything other than debts run up due to the corrupty irish political system and its banking and development cronies,
Enough is enough ,
if your not happy that i,m not paying this one ,Tough………my money , my decision.
Above i stated a lot of measures that would go along way to getting the country out of the mess , but that would mean hurting a few.of the politicans friends ………..
Well said.
I like cake
If you have never worked in the state (ever), you can receive income support for the whole family including unlimited children. Live in a property supplied, maintained and subsidised by the state, receive free medical care and medicine. If you are a drug addict you will receive unlimited free drug treatment for the duration of your addiction.
You are not liable for:
TV License, USC, PRSI increases, Household charge, Property tax, etc
The rest of us work to subsidise this lifestyle of no contribution and the lifestyle of the rich. This will continue until until we leave the country or loose our jobs and join the queue.
I do intend to pay the property tax. If I don’t, others will have to pay more. Everybody should pay their fair share.
The government will be looking for 15 billion Euros next year. So where are they supposed to get it?
By dragging things out, it is just making the situation worse.
I was one of the people who paid 65% tax in the late 70ies. And we had water rates then and we also paid property tax for a time, in addition to 14% interest on our mortgage. We had just bought our house then. And we then had to pay a child minder.
But the country’s situation was resolved quickly. Postponing the inevitable will mean we will be back to increased taxation.
Mary, sense at last. I agree with you and am going to do the same.
People can rant and cry all they like but really all this is, is the old Rates going back on the houses. Anyone born after the 60s may have to check the history books on that. Charlie Haughey abolished them.
I’ve paid my fair share.
My children are going to pay their fair share.
Their children are going to pay their fair share.
And their children are going to pay their fair share.
Open your eyes the IMF have us by the short and curlys. We will keep gettin lashed out of it with taxes and cuts, all our services sold of to international bidders, all our natural resources given to big energy companies. And fine gael and fianna fail can’t see this. Serious this old gentlemens club which has become of our dail needs to be changed. The younger generation of leaders need to come thru. These lads in there have no clue how these big business vultures work their too busy gettin a pat on the head and a brown envelope for slowly stripping the country of everything of valve.
You are being asked to pay this unfair tax because Fine Gael has squandered our taxes, paying out billions and billions to gambling Bondholders.
con lets not forget the criminals in FF as well.
Dermot, the criminals in FF came up with this loony tax. And their candidate in Meath East, Thomas Byrne is being totally dishonest about the tax. He is trying to be smart by saying “wrong tax, wrong time” but neither he or Fianna Fail are promising to repeal the tax. My advice to Meath people don’t vote for Byrne, Mc Entee, Holmes or O Buachalla.
How many people protesting this tax stood idly by while the state pissed their tax revenue up a wall throughout the Celtic Tiger years?
How the hell do you avoid paying them? Please let us in on that secret!
When is Inda kinny going to announce the distribution of da free cheese?
Is this the same 30% who don’t pay any tax?
have your say