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AN AUDIT OF proposals for the extension of the Croke Park Agreement has found that the changes have the potential to have a disproportionate and negative impact on women employed in the public service.
The audit, by independent equality expert Niall Crowley, found that the proposals would also deepen gender inequality.
Last month, the INMO, the Irish Medical Organisation, the Civil and Public Services Union and UNITE, together with the 24/7 Frontline Alliance asked for an equality expert to look at the potential impact of the proposals on women.
The audit found that additional working hours are likely to disproportionately impact on women and this could “serve as a push factor for people with caring responsibility to leave the workforce”.
It said the reduction in access to and take up of work sharing arrangements could also push women out of their jobs.
“This is particularly true of the insistence in the proposals that work sharing patterns should not be less than 50 per cent of full working hours,” Crowley said. “The available data identifies that women make up the vast bulk of those working less than 29 hours in a week. These effects can be particularly negative and have longer term consequences for women working in the health sector.”
The audit notes the “absence of any reference to the need to take account of any possible impact on family circumstances or the right of appeal to a third party adjudicator” in the proposals.
It concludes that the potential impact of the Labour Relations Commission proposals “must be mitigated if they are not to deepen inequality for women and to disadvantage men and women with caring responsibilities”.
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As an intensive care job sharing staff nurse with 22years of ICU under my belt, I will be pushed out of intensive care in the public sector and will have to find work in the private sector ie a nursing home or the likes as I can’t work full time or up my hours as croke park two is going to make me do
“and will have to find work in the private sector”
And what’s the problem with that? Instead of driving a Mercedes, you can drive a Toyota. Instead of renting a single en-suite, you can rent a shared house. Instead of buying an I-Phone, you can buy a laptop. You get the point.
Jeremy34 the point being you’ve pushed 22 years of ICU expertise out of a very specialised area.
Genuine question Grainne – “I can’t work full time or up my hours”. Why not? Sure if the other option is no work at all you will find a way no? Why should any employer cater to any one person’s personal schedule?
Good luck telling an employer what hours you can and can’t work if you’re in an interview for the private sector. You’re in for a bit of a shock I reckon.
Nurses work very hard and long hours, I’m not denying this. I give you credit for your valuable experience and contribution, but when I look at the bigger picture the figures seem to suggest the following:
HSE budget is approximately €20 billion: out of this €16 billion goes on wages….
Totally agree with you. The loss of experienced people like you is redundancy by proxy..the cowardly s**ts
Colm I totally agree with you it’s reg
He can change name but that virtual diahorrea he spews gives him away every time.
Why not?
Usually due to caring commitments, you know the young or the old.
That exactly why j
Grainne, your inflexible. Great experience, but inflexible. It’s your choice how you move forward. Get with the roster that’s actually required or try your luck in the private sector. You at least have options…
O Reilly I’m not inflexible I’m a working mother with huge experience to give. I have been offered jobs in the private sector with better pay and conditions but I have chosen so far to stay in the public sector because I believe in the service and quality of service in the ICU unit in my hospital is exceptional. But cp2 is pushing me out
J- how are caring responsibilities an issue for your employer? It’s not in the private sector. If you want the job you organise your own home life around it. Civil servants need to stop regarding the state as their mommy.
Grainne- not happy with your employer? Move. Its a more realistic option than expecting your bankrupt employer to acquiesce to your rigid requirements at a time when flexibility & productivity are essential. Wakey, wakey…
Dildo/Kevin Shaw – ” Its a more realistic option than expecting your bankrupt employer to acquiesce to your rigid requirements at a time when flexibility & productivity are essential”
Bankrupt employers don’t hand out billions to unguaranteed bondholders every few months trollboy.
Grainne, you’ve stated that you can’t work full time hours or up your hours. So how can you say you’re flexible. You clearly work to set pattern that sits well with your personal commitments…
Bondholders, blah, blah, blah, blah…..
Bankrupt employer blah blah blah…
Pension reserve fund has €30billion on deposit….stimulus required which would put folks back to work..off welfare and paying tax. Infrastructure defecit in west and northwest…poor infrastructure…poor chance of FDI…we need dual carraigeway from northwest to Dublin…we need bypass of ballybofey/stranorlar…need proper modern road link to Sligo…rail link from Sligo to Derry…open up northwest…only bypass we got was the one tge celtix tiger used to avoid North Donegal.
Tell you what, Colm. When Donegal stops feeling sorry for itself and stops throwing the dummy out of the pram every time there’s an election, maybe the rest of the country will give a toss. Until then, remember the only difference between the “6 counties” and the “7 counties” is one. By the way- I’d prefer if my pension wasn’t spent on your dole if that’s ok.
Kevin (Dilcos) did you get banned? I thought you were against the use of anonymous twitter accounts? What price are your other beliefs?
“What price are your other beliefs?”
An extra biccie with his tea in FGHQ
Dilcos/Shaw or whatever your name is…i am 46 years old and have NEVER been unlucky enough to be in receipt of unemployment benefit. Iv been in full time employment since leaving school. Im a public servant…24/7 365 emergency service worker you pathetic troll. Those of us in north west are citizens of a democracy last time I checked!
Jeremy why are you lying or are you just misinformed?
Total irish public sector pay and pensions is 17.5 billion. Yet you claim total health pay is 16 billion. Please stop spreading lies.
Censored- yes. I got banned. Mine is an involuntary change of name. Should this name change, it’s probably because of this confession and a resultant ban.
Werejammin- I’m still waiting for your source for the 70% lie, I mean statistic you cited above.
Colm- for a 24/7, 365 day emergency worker, you’re doing some serious whining about what amounts to a couple of more hours a week. Will you then be a 28/7, 365 day emergency worker?
Seriously…you do have issues. Trolling must be therapeutic for you. But the majority here just pity you
Lmao at his latest contribution neilo….sad just doesnt do this lad justice.
@Jeremy34
You are coming over as an embittered lad? Is that your intention?
IT nurses are like gold dust and must be retained by the health service? Would you be happier if health was completely privatised and your treatment would depend on your the level of your health insurance?
Colm- that’s a stunning riposte, there. It will go down in the annals of counter-argument lore. Just fantastic stuff from you there.
Well Dilcos, fair play – I was having a laugh but I don’t think you should have been banned. The journal has an interesting approach to free speech, a little schizophrenic even. If they’re not careful this will end up being even more of a monoculture/echo chamber.
Sitpu’s mantra is strength through unity! (it’s on their headed paper) so to then recommend everyone vote according to their own personal circumstances is a mockery of the only real way to win the best deal, which is to resist and actually get to negotiate a deal, not a dictated one. They have damaged the union just like labour is damaged. The top table of both need to go. Fg must be laughing their heads off.
I don’t see what the public sector are complaining about. They are still one of the best paid public servants in Europe.
Now, now Jeremy. Public servants sold their votes to Fianna Fáil for benchmarking. They feel entitled to their dividend. The rest of us be damned.
“I don’t see what the public sector are complaining about. They are still one of the best paid public servants in Europe.”
70% of public servants make less than the average industrial wage, and the cost of living is one of the highest in Europe here. Not to mention the fact that lower paid civil servants in many European countries enjoy either free or subsidised childcare plus proper healthcare and maternity provisions.
Put down the koolaid.
Werejammin- the source of that statistic, please.
for a huge number of workers in the private sector, the average industrial wage is a dream
The lowest paid in the private sector working a 35 hour week would earn 15,743 pa
So to make a statistical comparison, what percentage would you put on that salary for the same hours in the Public service
Please bear in mind also that graduates are being offered 8.65 per hour in the private sector now, take it or leave it.
The cost of living is among the highest in Europe precisely because of the relatively large premium enjoyed by PS workers. All of the rest of us also have to pay these high prices. Since we are staying in the Euro we are stuck with deflation as our only exit route from this crisis. You know what deflation means don’t you? Hint: if you can’t cut the real value of money using inflation then you have to cut wages.
Sure public sector workers sank the titanic and killed the dinosaurs too….get a bleedin grip. IT salaries are pretty damn high in private sector at present…explain that
Colm- Private companies pay IT salaries in the private sector. Whether they’re exorbitant or not, I don’t know. And I don’t care because I’m not paying for it. What I can tell you is that bankrupt companies are not paying their IT people exorbitant money. They’re laying them off.
Sorry to hear that needs to be explained to you, but let’s try.
I’m delighted that IT workers are getting high salaries since:
A. I am not paying for it
B. they are paying income tax – a *net* tax contribution which is good for all of us
C. they’re bringing money into the country (otherwise known as “the productive economy”) and spending it
Some on here seem to think facts are subjective. Guess how we got into this mess in the first place? I didn’t say anything about right or wrong. Deflation is a fact we have to deal with, or change the situation – which basically will mean getting out of the euro or making the Germans see reason (eurobonds, or Germany leaves)
@Shayne O’Donoghue money talks and b….hit walks. i smell corruption somewhere along the line as regards your question
Censored..Public Servants pay tax. Public services are needed. They are services provided by workers called public servants….not slaves or indentured labourers. My point re IT salaries…all i hear is private sector wage cuts..who buys private sector goods?
And censored…you do pay tjose salaries indirectly when you purchase a product or service; if its a foreign multi national..taxes have most likely been used to help sweeten the deal. IBEC and ISME have been consistent in blaming us for the mess…..tell me what sector did banks oprrate in? Who are the unsecured bondholders..what sector were the greedy developers in? What sector did quinn group operate in?
Here we go again, PS workers pay tax. Yep, so all we need to do is increase their wages and the deficit will just disappear. Right? Can you even add 2+2?
Just so you know, the Irish State buys almost nothing from indigenous companies. Plus, I’d equate the banking sector, Quinn etc with the HSE and all the other rotten, badly managed and parasitical entities the Irish establishment has spawned for their own enrichment.
Please notice that I didn’t say that public services are not needed, or that ordinary PS workers don’t deserve their pay, What gets me going is the total idiocy of the arguments offered.
as for paying those salaries indirectly, you’re partly right assuming they sell something I’m buying in Ireland which is mostly not the case. Still, it’s my choice and there is no levy taken off the top to buy votes or top up Cowen’s pension.
This report will be filed right beside Lowry tape to gather dust
#theydontcare
How exactly is this an “independent audit” if it was done at the behest of the unions?
Another report for an overpaid quango of the state. Bullshit
The purpose of CP2 is to reduce public service numbers by any means. This is just another cynical means of doing so. The measure was hidden in the proposals. Re SIPTU and IMPACT, why should bus drivers vote on the terms and conditions of ICU nurses and vice versa?
Government approach thus far is to scare people using the old “if you don’t then I’ll….” It’s a bad way to do business. “If you don’t vote yes then we’ll legislate” Most recently I noted a clause in the circular about teacher’s maternity leave saying, if you don’t take your 20days annual leave on school closure days we are not obliged to pay maternity leave. The spirit of Thatcher lives on.
What the hell kind of made up nonsense is an ”Equality Expert”?
It’s someone you bring in when you feel you might be losing an argument and you want to toss a subject in that most people are afraid to be seen to be standing up to. Sexism in this case. Losing the fairness argument? Lets redefine the debate to make it look sexist in the hope that political correctness will get us over the line…
An expert is a man 50 miles from home with a brief case.
It’s a person who’s fully versed in the Employment Equality and the Equal Status Acts. It’s interesting that the former CEO of the Equality Authority is described as “independent”" though considering he’s a former public servant.
So if the banks cant push women back into the kitchen one way, the Government will find another way!
Great country we are living in, though I am sure Dev & John Charles McQuead are smiling at this.
Theres no ‘could’ about it. This new deal has no family orientated protections or measures like CP1 and will make it even harder for lower paid staff with kids to cope.
This government are completely anti-woman, anti-child and anti-family.
Taxing maternity benefit FFS.
Yawn.
Aww, poor kevins tired. Must have been out pounding the pavement again…..
Tired waiting for you to produce your source for the 70% stat above. Were you lying or just talking crap?
Wont it effect the people in the jobs equally i.e. men and women?
Probably Terry,
But (as a group) women manage their PR much better than men.
The burden of being the primary carer for family members often falls unequally to women more then men so women end up working part time, job share or flexitime, so the removal of these options and the chose of paying someone else to care for that family member means it is not possible to work full time.
It is regressive and will end up with less options for men and women and less work life balance.
J- Guess what? When your employer goes bankrupt? You may just need to rebalance your work-life balance. Be grateful to have a job and get on with it.
@j i think that if someone sees caring for their children as “a burden” then they should probably not have any.
No but they should have paternity leave, why isn’t anyone fighting for that?
Why can’t the last 3 months be for either parent to take of so that the mother can go back to work and the father stay at home for a while?
It’s a burden when it’s not a choice, and it’s not just kids.
Anyone else finding the constant articles about CP2 and how it’s anti-women a little tedious at this stage? The rules apply to all. The fact over or under 50% of one gender works in one department should not mean your department be excluded from the changes.
Yup. I’m also suspicious of men so keen to be “equality experts”.
” The rules apply to all. ”
They do indeed, but they will affect the lowest paid civil servants the most, who happen to be mostly female, a huge proportion of which are working mothers who pay for childcare.
Why do people feel the need to attack CP2 under a false flag as it were? The money has to be saved, but it is clearly not fair to lower paid workers. Better to keep it simple instead of bringing in all this nonsense and confusing the issue.
Are you a man by any chance?
Siptu and impact will reap the consequences of their treachery just like their paymasters in the labour party
Dilcos..did you fail to get a public service job..why you so anti public service. The Garda Firefighter Nurse NCHD that will rescue you and care for you God fprbid should you meed it did not cause this mess. Neither did the teacher or front office clerical officer who regularly fields abuse on a daily basis. Benchmarking…dont make me laugh…the REAL party for benchmarking was in higher grades to stop the lauded private sector poaching them. ANY benefit I got from said benchmarking (9% apx in rpund 1….0% in round 2) has been annhialated by previous paycut and pension levy….and that is not including USC. Also..resources are being reduced throughout Justice Fire Health with govt IGNORING suggestions for savings. And if you are deluded enough to believe that this campaign is just to cut public sector wages….well dont come back whingi.g when IBEC & ISME swing the scythe again. But sure keep reading the sindo and ignore reality
Colm- benchmarking was money for old rope. A rise for no other reason than ye could leverage out of a Fianna Fáil Government with an insatiable lust for power. I’ve nothing against civil servants. But ye are over paid. The only sympathy I have for ye is that wages shouldn’t have been allowed get that high in the first place as ye now have financial commitments based on them.
FG supported benchmarking too. In fact, they complained that the government wasn’t being spending enough.
Discos, remover that private sector Pat Kenny earns 3 times more than the Taoiseach!
Dilcos, remember that Pat Kenny earns 3 times more than the Taoiseach. (Apologies for previous typos).
After earlier telling me you “didnt want your pension paying my dole” comment you have some barefaced cheek . You so busy trolling your thatchwritw mantra you cannot even keep track of who you are spewi g verbal diahorrea to. Get a life
Bill- both Pat Kenny & Enda Kenny are defacto public servants. So I don’t get your point?
Meant for Dilcos/Shaw or whatever he calling himself today. Sorry for typos…thatcherite mantra.
Censored- by the way; Fine Gael were against Benchmarking, something that hurt them badly electorally. They consistently clashed with the Unions over it and voted against it in Dáil Éireann. But don’t let the facts get in the way, eh?
Dilcos, the Taoiseach is responsible for running the country, huge decisions that affect everyone must be made, (even if I don’t agree with some of them), but Pat Kenny et al are tv presenters, why do they earn more? They are not public servants, they have private companies that lease out services to RTE. Arguably, they should be considered to be public servants but who wants to listen to them for 39′hrs per week!
Colm M. You have 0 followers abd have sent 28 tweets in total. Who are you to be talking about fake identities?
Bill- they’re both paid by taxes. They’re public servants. By no stretch of the imagination can RTE be described as being in the private sector.
Dilcos…Shaw…I value my privacy. I use twitter for the simple act of replying to some of the garbage posted by you and others. Iv read your garbage for long enough and just couldnt ignore it any longer. I do have a life and do not intend to be a slave to social media. You know…when a person is banned from somewhere it means they are not welcome…pretty childish to sneak back in!
Dilcos, I have to disagree. The RTE high earners are not public servants. They negotiate private contracts with RTE. They argue that they bring in advertising income which pays their fees. Check out these facts. Also, Bord Gais, ESB, and other public bodies are not considered to be public service. They received pay rises this year. The government has targeted 15% of the workforce for these cuts to pay for the mistakes for the private sector. Everyone should pay their share.
And your followers total….a big fat duck egg…thats zero btw. Gobdaw!!
Ah, Colm….you’re hiding your identity, lacking the courage of your convictions. So as is pretty typical of your mindless rhetoric (strangely at odds with your amazing accomplishments career-wise, of course) , it would seem that moral high ground is pretty shakey. And frankly, renders you a bit of a joke.
Ah, but Colm…I wasn’t claiming the moral high ground, was I??? I admitted to a dummy account….so you’re coming across now not just as a bit hypocritical but a bit thick too. If you don’t mind me saying. It’s amazing you got that high flying job, all things considered.
Tragic…that sums you up. Now Im fed up feeding the troll so off with you now and collect some bridge tolls
My account is far from dummy…its my choice to use it here. You on the other hand are a self accepted banned contributor who has sneaked back in under a false ridiculous handle. As for your insults regarding my career and quals…typical of the party you purport to support amd the absolute contempt they have shown to the very people that keep this country going 24/7. Now..pff with you back to the bridge and collect some tolls
That’s what I can never figure out about you public servants. Where do you hang your halo’s when you get home at night? Oh wait, you don’t. You work 24/7, don’t you?
Dilcos, you want facts I’ll give you facts:
“I wish to reiterate the Fine Gael position on this issue. The concept of benchmarking is sound, but the Government’s management of it is deeply flawed”
Please don’t claim that FG did not support benchmarking. They just wanted to be in charge, that’s all.
Over paid? What are you basing that on? On average, public servants are way more educated than the public sector workers(doctors, nurses, teachers. … ) I would say under paid! Compare the salary of a Dr. In computer science, for example, who is 35 years old. Yo will find a coefficient of 1 to 3 difference and not towards the side you are thinking of.
Overall, the public service is not cost efficient and cannot be, live with it. Anyhow, public servants are very productive and flexible.
A lot of public servants have traded large salary and multiple benefits from the private sector for the security of salary and position. They did not make it “big” during the Celtic Tiger era. Why should they be punished now (for the second time)? They have made a choice, got very involved into what they are doing, and live by it.
Their mortgages and other loans are based on over inflated prices like the rest of us. Do you really want more defaulted mortgages and credit cards? That would only give a good excuse to your so called “private sector” banks to rise their prices. Because yes, we all pay for this!
I know it is easy but it illustrates very well what I mean: if by misfortune one of your family member or a close friend is brought to A&E for a serious reason and that you happen to come back visiting you relative every day for a month, you will soon realise that “your” money is pretty f*****g well invested.
Give the stolen phone back
Women aren’t happy unless they’re bloody whinging.
To be honest as a regular reader of the journal I find it to be quite the opposite, the men on here could give any whining woman a good run for their money!
You seem only to be happy when p***ing others off,if all of your comments are any indication.
Karolyn I agree most of the so called men on here wouldn’t b out of place in a old grannies army.Wimps the lot.
As a man it saddens me to agree with you wholeheartedly
I agree, men do nothing on here but whine.
I’m bloody sick of it!
Well….more jobs for us, lads then! LOL
This is a roll back on a small achievement that helped parents of young children to work and reduced their expensive child care costs. I cannot understand why the unions are defending this as it makes no economic sense. The people who availed of flexi work times continued to contribute to the economy. The proposal will set back equal working opportunities for women and the gains the women,s movement have made since the 1970,s.
Shame on those union people that agreed to this with the LRC.
Simple motivation here, it’s financial. Take a simplified example of 2 people jobsharing earning 30k each – government gets 21% tax on both. 1 person earning 60k – government gets 21% on first half and 42% on rest (or whatever higher rate of tax is – I wouldn’t know!) It’s not personal (or related to gender) in their heads, it’s the bottom line as usual – bedamned with the consequences!
It is scaremongering and completely untrue to say that this agreement will force women out of work. In fact, the agreement means that unions can continue to protect jobs and flexible work arrangements. Without an agreement there will be nothing to stop employers changing – or even abolishing – work sharing and flexitime arrangements. Have the unions who commissioned this report done an equality audit of the alternative? – http://www.impact.ie/13/04/09/Croke-Park-agreement-will-protect-women-workers.htm
Exactly. The agreement is the only thing protecting their jobs right now, I’d be taking any changes they throw at me to stay working.
What qualifications are required to become an equality expert?
Hermaphrodite…
Equalifications.
How to spot an “equality expert”: assume things are currently worse for women e.g. “proposals must be mitigated if they are not to deepen inequality for women’”.
I actually think in this case this particular change may disproportionately affect women. But I have no confidence that “equality experts” look for changes that affect men disproportionately with the same vigour, or can be relied on to accurately assess which gender is worse hit by any deal. One would think if one was specialising in “equality”, one should be good at such things.
They need to follow up with an ” equality experts” view on what impact legislated wage cuts, changes to terms and conditions would have on women… #onewayoranother
I can’t understand why anyone pays union dues when it’s wasted on waffle like this report.
How much money was wasted on that ounce of common sense.
The CPA is anti worker.Period.
have your say