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TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY says the rejection of the Croke Park 2 public pay deal means public sector workers no longer have any automatic protection against mandatory redundancies.
Kenny said workers had voted on the proposed pay deal, which would have cut €300 million from public pay this year, knowing that it would have guaranteed them protection against public redundancies.
He said the workers’ rejection of the deal meant there was now no such protection for workers.
“That was an inherent part of it,” Kenny told the Dáil, referring to the pay cuts. “But of course, if there’s no agreement, there’s no protection – and that’s the point.
In the negotiations between the Labour Relations Commission and the unions on Croke Park 2, employment was protected by those negotiations and protected under Croke Park 2.It’s absolutely true to say that if you have no agreement, you don’t have that inherent protection. That’s fact.
Kenny’s dramatic comments, made in the Dáil this morning, suggest that the government now believes the original Croke Park agreement – which was due to run until June 2014, and which ruled out any mandatory redundancies – is now null and void.
The Taoiseach also defended the presentation of revised Budget figures which included the Croke Park 2 pay cuts, which were published even after public workers voted to reject the proposals for saving €300 million.
His comments came after Micheál Martin queried comments from public expenditure minister Brendan Howlin, who last night told the Dáil that if the government was a private sector employee, it would not be pulling ahead with mandatory job cuts.
Martin claimed the government was ready to proceed with unilateral pay cuts, and that laws cutting pay and pensions for public workers were being drafted and ready to go if LRC chairman Kieran Mulvey’s talks with union representatives did not lead to a second round of pay negotiations.
He said this was in spite of the government’s insistence that the rejected Croke Park 2 deals could only be ‘tweaked’ rather than facing a total overhaul.
The Taoiseach’s comments followed those of Pat Rabbitte, who this morning said the rejection of the Croke Park 2 agreement meant “theoretically” the government could pursue job cuts.
He added, however, “there’s no particular will on the part of government to remove that protection from public sector workers,” he told RTÉ.
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Bring it on. I work in the health service of the public sector. Approximately 60 are employed in the same department. I can think of 10 of the top of my head that we could do without. In fact when they are off on sick leave/maternity leave the department runs more efficiently. Most are in ‘administration’. Worked there for 3 years before finding out what one particular woman does, and its the biggest joke of a job ever. However she’s unioned to the hilt so can’t be gotten rid of. It’s the public that suffers and then the people that are working hard and doing their best.
And your name is? Right now it’s coward u guess.
Grand Dame – as usual te wrong ones would be let go.
Kenny has the big stick out now !!!
Looks like FG are fluffing their feathers with the troika boys in town to show who’s the biggest co…, I’m rooster in the hen house !!!
I’d love it if they could find a method of teacher performance measuring that is beyond reproach (I’ve yet to hear of one) – then get rid of some of them to let me and a fair bunch of my classmates in.
Getting a bit tired of this Public Service bashing and particularly the fact that that the current government, the media and people in this thread like to target those at the lower end of the public service payscales. The idea that everybody working in the private sector is dilligent, hard working and super efficient is just not true. And sure there is waste in the Public sector but in my view its at the other end – management.
Once again a threat that will effect all workers – IBEC & ISME have long been campaigning against job security for public service workers precisely because they understand that is how they will destroy the limited security private sector workers have. The end goal being to get us to the sort of situation that exists in many US states where you can get fired at the whim of the boss and so workers go into work with serious illness rather than risk dismissal.
Race to the bottom, here we go. But this is also why all workers should support public service workers in their fight to defend all our interests.
Fact GrandDame, I know of a few that could go and no one would really notice, they do nothing but expect everything
Totally agree with you there GrandDame, I’m in the same sector and it’s madness how some people get away with doing f**k all
I moved from the private sector to the public and I’m amazed at how little some people actually do!!!
Mind you Enda Kenny does f**k all too and he gets paid €200,000 for talking bull and telling lies
Me too GrandDame. Im in health and I work with a man who was off ‘sick’ for 4 months last year. He also goes out sick when the horses are on!
Hes just back after another 8 weeks off. Crazy! He also takes a smoke break every 30 minutes.
Id much rather we got rid of the dead work from the public sector than those of us who actually DO work, are expected to take a cut.
My department runs like clock work when hes out. I have gone to my line manager and my department manager about him but neither gives a sh1t.
Id like to see appraisals introduced and if youre not performing, then youre out.
It’s only in the interest of an employer to remove workers who are not performing. They hurt themselves by firing good workers. So what has a good employee to fear?
Race to the Bottom?
Go to your local county council or HSE office and you’ll see that we won that race years ago.
Unions and employee legislation exist so that people who shouldn’t have jobs can keep them while the hardworking subsidise them. What’s fair about that? Good employees don’t need law to protect them they have their own skills and ability. Bad employees need everything they can get to hide their incompetence behind.
Public sector bashing , dont make us laugh ! the Public sector Unions have a complete monopoly on the online and print and TV media, despite the fact they only make up about 300K of 1.5M in the workforce . Every second headline is , union this unions that , we cant atke anymore etc etc No doubt cuts are not easy for anybody but all you guys have guareenteed Jobs with good pensions (despite Enda’s bluster ) we all no the only lay off would be guys who are near the end of their tenure that would get massive payouts , thats how Ireland works , so leave it out mate , try having 3 kinds a mortgage and no Job , you’d think that would put things in perpsective but apparently not
Wish I could green thumb this comment into comment of the week
@sherpa Norgay Unions definitely dont have a hold on the Sindo (God bless Wm Smith OBrien) or the Oirish Daily Pail which do nothing but bash the public sector
great news Enda. NOW LETS START WITH SENATE; COUNCILS; QUANGOS. THAT WOOD BE A GOOD GREAT start Enda.
Trouble is Alex, you are talking sense.
Sense does not happen when it comes to wasters in management in public service, particularly the HSE.
If Dame Enda is allowed to do this we all know the people who will get the boot wont be management.
So am I. It’s so demoralising. I wish I’d taken a job in the private sector-Christmas parties in Amsterdam, lunch in Shanahans, 4 grand bonuses at the end of the year for filing and knocking up a few spreadsheets. Sweet life. And now they’re all moaning and pointing their fingers at the lazy public sector. Yeah make them redundant, eye for an eye, we lost jobs why shouldn’t they? I know a fella worked in bank, jumped on the boom wagon, left and joined a mortgage brokers- remortgaged to join a golf club, got a new car, went on two-three holidays a year and then the company went bust. But that’s the risk he took- he rolled in it when it was good….but that was his choice to work in private sector….what has happened is not the fault of the public sector workers…it’s not the fault of ANY worker…
Well said Eimear….well said. I am sick of the hard done private sector worker sh*te
Totally agree GrandDame.
I hope the Government starts putting their threats into action and start kicking some of these jokers out of the public sector.
The Unions have had ample time to assist with such an initiative, instead they just want to blindly protect ‘the workers’ even if a large segment of those workers don’t actually do much work.
They jobs should not be protected regardless of Croke Park/Coke park 2…if an individual is not needed or is not performing they should be shown the door, just like in any job
If it’s the alternative to maintaining the pay of those who are doing the work, then bring it on, people are fed up carrying those who feel a sick day is an entitlement – start with the top ten uncertified sick in every section/dept and ask them to explain why they should be retained. Lets be clear here, if you are genuinely sick then fine but if it’s so a day off can be had then goodbye.
We are constantly told by the Govt that they HAVE to honour deals made by FF with Troika, ECB, bond holders etc etc..yet the CPI agreement made with the civil servants is re-negotiable (unlike all the other ones)
BTW compulsory redundancies were permissible under CPII.
If we apply his logic to the rejection of the deal, then pay cuts have been rejected and should not be enforced.
”if an individual is not needed or is not performing they should be shown the door”
Just like the bankers were – right .
Their performance was – well are there words ??
“never has a group of experts failed so spectacularly”
Rolf Dobelli.
Public sector worker here who agrees 100% too much waste
Why defend inefficiency in the public sector Jim with a negative argument on bankers ?
And what about the promised ‘report cards’ for the ministers Dame Enda??
Under performing ministers to be given the boot??
What a hypocrite this fool is
Excellent, now enough of the threats and more action. There are many public sector jobs that could be done away with that wouldn’t impact services to the public in any way.
They could start with the overstuffed useless quangos and the job created for Gilmore’s mrs.
Starting from the top!
Welcome to the real world/private sector.
Well there’s around 15,000 administrative jobs in the HSE that could go.
Duplication upon duplication.
In at the desk at 9.15, out at 4.45pm.
No responsibility.
No night, weekend, bank holiday work.
And the government cuts the pay of nurses, junior doctors, ambulance drivers etc.
They are just a disguising, horrible spineless lot!
Wonder has our beloved leader read the boy who cried wolf. He should again as what he has come out with today is not going to happen, fact….
What about all the jobs in the planning sector?taisce and board pleanáil, planning departments around the country.they must have hired loads during the boom what are all these people doing now they can’t be busy.
@nelly staff have been moved to other depts like environment that are now busy, so they can take more money from us
Lets not forget Voiceofsense that the highest level of absenteeism in the PS is amongst nurses
Thats because they end up getting sick having to deal with other peoples illnesses! If you were dealing with sick people all the time, youd end up sick! Use your head! Most nurses I know have been assaulted, slapped, screamed at, have had back problems, shoulder problems etc for having to deal with and lift or carry members of the public.
@ Tommy C,
That’s not good enough. They knew what the job was before they got into it. If they are not physically or mentally capable they are in the wrong job, same as the private sector. But anyways the nurses that i know manage their home and private lives around their job flexibilty. In other words just don’t bother turning in when something comes up. Sounds harsh but Nurses in the private sector whether hospital or nursing homes would be fired for the PS level of absenteeism
They knew what the job was before getting into it? So that knowledge somehow overrides the effectiveness of the viruses and other bugs they catch in hospitals?
@nelly (appropriate name btw) public sector is real world too In fact more real world than some of the Private Sector, protected as it is by closed shop unions posing as professional bodies. Legal fees, doctors fees, accountants fees are all up in the recession.
My husband is an RPN and the only time he has ever taken off in the 14 years I have known him was when he was seriously injured at work. Once when he was attacked and damaged his trapezius and on another occasion when a patient assaulted him and other staff with a fire extinguisher and sprayed the powder at them triggering a serious asthma attack. On both occasions he pleaded with the doctor to sign him off as fit to work early as he was aware that his shifts would be covered by agency staff who didn’t know the routine in the hospital and his colleagues would be stretched to their limits. He actually felt guilty for taking the time off.
Stupid statement john. Nurses are not made of iron. They knew the job they were getting into?. Does a builder not suffer from years of lifting blocks? No more than a nurse turning 24 patients on an elderly ward numerous times a day. Or a psychiatric nurse trying to console a person who is talking about killing themselves all day on one side and could walk around the corner and be assaulted by another unwell patient. This is frontline on a daily basis. Sick days will happen no matter how well you think you might be prepared.
Correct, Bord Na Mona springs to mind
Make the cuts. Too much deadwood in the PS and I am sure most would agree with me if ya dont pull your weight ya don’t keep your job.
Bring it on Enda, i cannot afford a long strike but im sick to the teeth if being bullied and unfairly treated
Bring it on Robbie, Hopefully frontliners and watch any support you have from the rest of the population evaporate in a heartbeat
I dont think so John, people both public and private sectors know that the lower paid nurses,gardai,firefighters,paramedics etc are the biggest losers in cp2 and the public dont want this. Labour would not last too long in a strike situation and support would grow for strikers when the prospect of ridding the country of this corrupt and immoral coalition was realized
@ Robbie,
You’re naievity is charming. The general public just like the electorate has the attention span of a bluebottle. When they start to suffer you guys are going to be the focus. So dream on
don’t want your support John
You will need ours one day though….
Threats enda? Dont pretend to have a backbone or even a plan…
Didn’t take the little facist bullyboys long after ignoring a democratic vote to start their threats did it?
The agreement in place till 2014 explicitly states no redundancies. Also, there is absolutely no demands from the troika that the 300 million savings has to be made by hitting the public sector yet again. Time for people earning above 100K to put their hands in their pockets.
Don’t be crazy! We cannot expect rich bankers to be hit. Who in their right mind would hit those poor guys.
Pat Rabbite was quoted this morning as saying there would be no compulsory redundancies.
These clowns can’t even even BS in tandem, never mind run a country together.
@ werjammin. While your quoting the agreement you should not selectively just choose parts that suite your needs
.
CLAUSE 1.28 of the Croke Park agreement on public service pay and conditions states: “The implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration.”
.
I think the current depression we are undergoing on a continual yearly basis since the start of CP1 would warrant the invocation of Clause 1.28. I thought CP2 was a way not to dismantle CP1 but build on it based on the current economical situation. I.E. we cannot afford to keep paying for the current public sector in its current form.
.
Becasue there are so many of them!!!!
There is an inability to pay clause built into croke park 1, however the government have failed to invoke it. They can’t, because it can be demonstrated that the government can find the necessary funding elsewhere.
Not true, Simon Barnes, the Croke Park agreement has brought in all the agreed financial savings – the problem is that the economy is so depressed with the austerity that government income is below target.
yes penfan that’s is exactly what the clause says. if the economy gets depressed further. so then you agree they should invoke the clause.
@Simon Barnes
I think the point is, that the while policy of cutting public services has brought significant savings the downside is the economy has been further depressed – ie the ‘reforms’ are not producing the desired effect.
It is impossible to effectively reform the public sector in the manner of CRoke Park. One size does not fit all. The downside of any further cuts or redundancies in the public sector needs to be offset by a stimulus in the private sector. This could include legislation to increase wages in the private sector. The mantra is always ‘the overpaid’ public sector, nobody points out that wages in many sectors in the private sector are underpaid. It was not long ago that the Business Pages of newspapers were full of reports of extravagant profits, headlines of 100%, 200% even 300% profits were commonplace. All the while wage inflation was typically in the 2%-5% per annum.
The money is out there, but too much of it is in the control of too few, who are hoarding it instead of investing it.
@ Simon Barnes – re 1.28 ….. There has been no currently (ie at the time of signing of original croke park) unforeseen budgetary deterioration ….. The budget has improved – all that’s happened is that GDP hasn’t improved as much as was expected ….. So that “escape” clause can’t legitimately b used as excuse by government …
If I lost my civil service job, I’d would be no worse off. We are trying to live, pay a mortgage, bills etc on one wage, which is so low i’m embarrassed to quote it. There are weeks where I have to borrow money from my mother to pay my fares to work. If I was unemployed, we’d both get social welfare (my husband is not entitled ), unfortunately the dole office does not look favorably on people who leave supposed cosseted civil service jobs to sign on. I’m feeling so stressed out, tired, angry, disillusioned and powerless that it would be a relief if they fired me.
You still have bills and mortgage bills on the dole. Grow up.
Yes Kev but she could be at home, with her time to herself. Her point is she would be no worse off. In fact she would probably walk away with a nice little golden handshake to pay the mortgage for a year.
No big golden handshake for me, I’ve only been working there for 7 years and am a lowly clerical officer. Biggest mistake of my life to take the job but I’m stuck now.
Really I never knew that! I would have the same expendable income if we both were getting the dole and would be in the same financial situation I’m in now, except I wouldn’t have to spend 12 hours a week travelling too work and I wouldn’t have to borrow money to get there.
Sibhs, If it’s that stressful just resign. 1 person is not a lot but it’s a good start
Sibhs I didnt mean it in that way, but you would get at least 14 weeks wages tax free.
@JohnTheBaptist
There is no cause to be unpleasant.
Not a single word written on these pages will change anything, so can’t we at least be nice to each other, unless of course you happen to be the world-famous “Reganold” in disguise!
:-))
Sorry Penfan Don’t know reganold no I’m just me and I’m sick to death of people in well paid ( relative) pensionable jobs telling other people who are on the dole and struggling big big time that they’d be better off on the dole. So it’s piss or get off the pot time
And I’m sick of people like you on these forums John the Baptist. 1/3 of the current unemployed were on the dole in 2006, never wanted to work. At least another 1/3 of the current unemployed were tradesmen, estate agents etc. who absolutely creamed it during the boom. I reckon the other 1/3 of the unemployed are in a position that they are in through no fault of their own. Some of the people on this forum make in a year as a clerical officer what a Blockie would have earned in 3 months during the boom. Didn’t see the Blockie’s queuing up to work as Clerical officers in 2005. Fact is in this joke of a country people like Sibhs would be better off on the dole, if they have even 2 kids, they are better off on the current social welfare rates. The reason you don’t know that is because you are either ignorant or loaded, one or the other. So you’re talking about pissing or getting off the pot? Some people haven’t a pot to piss in, and you are taking the piss.
Yeah my friends husband was making two grand a week in construction. She said shed take twenties and fifties out of his clothes after they’d been through the wash. He wouldn’t have even noticed the money missing…
Take the deal or we will start shooting. That’s basically what Enda is saying here. We will see who’s doing the shooting come election time
We will Tom!!! FF will do exactly the same…. Only difference is that their buddies will get to keep the jobs… What do you think will be the outcome of next election… My take would be that FG will be in 30% bracket.. FF probally similar… So…Tell me how the policy will change please..
Lets all give up Then Declan. Unless you have some earth shattering radical plan for us all???
They void the previous agreement because they didn’t get their way with the first one? I knew the FG/Lapdog government was incompetent but I didn’t realise they were a bunch of four year old children who throw a hissy-fit when they don’t get their way.
Get this shower of idiots out.
And who do you suggest Jason??
I believe Dublin zoo would be able to supply a few Apes,at a few cheaper cost to the tax payer.The troika is calling the shots anyways(well thats what our elected leaders keep telling us).
Declan you remind me of somebody. His initials are D.H. You both talk similar nonsense.
is this all our govt can do ,issue threat after threat !!!
That’s all they can do. Call their bluff guaranteed they won’t do anything. Kenny and co are spoofers. This is just another scare tactic in order to try and get unions to vote in cp2.
+1
There is no way they’ll do anything because if they do it’ll be the end of the coalition for sure.
Get rid of the dead wood and hire the front line staff that are needed (at their proper pay, none of this 80% of normal pay for new nurses!)
What about getting rid of some of the deadwood from the frontline as well
To many chiefs in the public sector …
Too many period
The only you said thing I agree with.
A moratorium on employment and mandatory redundancies…this is not dong anyone any favours anywhere.
Just to be clear: I agree that there is deadwood in the Public Sector and a good old-fashioned culling is needed. However we still have a vast number of unemployed who are capable of actually working for their pay, but are still going to be forced to sit at home trying and failing to get a job in McDonalds or Dunnes Stores because they are overqualified. It’s sickening.
How about the tax payer?
Have to say lot of people might be better off taking redunancy and dole, medical card etc. Better than being in a dead end job, which is what most of them are now, working to pay a childminder. They need to rid deadwood but they also need to visit the cost of living and charges for services in the private sector such as GPs etc
The Taoiseach’s statement seems to directly contradict the statement made by Deputy Pat Rabbitte this morning on Morning Ireland, wherein he indicated that as of now there would be no mandatory redundancies.
The PS is Labour’s core vote Margaret. Rabbitte would say that
That is a point certainly.
However, relatively few public sector workers vote for the Labour Party.
There is an assumption that the Party derives very significant public sector support when this is not the case.
Previously, Fianna Fail would have derived generous support from the Public Service, the GE in 2016 will be very interesting as to where the PS vote goes.
That man is getting worse.
Fg need the same message as FF got.
If Labour would do the decent thing and give us a chance.
well if they want forced redundancies, they need to start at the top! not the bottom or the middle. Wait for it though, it will prob be frontline services that they will try and force out. Disgusting!
Good news as long as it means intelligent targeted management. Plenty of quality PS workers but always the few that don’t do their work n give everyone a bad name. Management in PS can’t threaten the door to these people as it stands, only lots of paperwork and reports about poor performance. Might help morale if poor performers were weeded out AND REPLACED. Knowing this gov though what he’s probably threatening is hospital closures and increased pupil:teacher ratios. Real clever!
I think Richie Bouchers treatment is a good indication of where we are heading.
This threat is aimed firmly at the lower paid.
So will he sack nurses firemen and gardai???????
Yes Damien, he will.
Better no we need them more than the damn dail.
If he sacks 15% of them and makes the rest work we’ll be no worse off
When Enda Kenny says anything now I read that the opposite is going to happen.
€623M given in foreign aid last year. What’s the reason for the cuts and home tax again? Anyone.
With the increase in the Pupil Teacher Ratio in Further Education there will be up to 450 jobs lost. 450 joining the dole queue in September but Quinn and Kenny don’t want to mention that! If a private company made this number redundant there would be an outcry! Why is it any different in this case?
More Lies and scare mongering from Fine Gael the Liars Party .
I am sure they are quaking in the boots at the thought of Enda & Cos. brave speach. Cop on Enda and take your own reduction of 50% from your own salary and forego your expenses and that applies to your buddies in the dail.
Wait until axe the tax (Home tax that is) campaign gets going then you will see who means business. Roll on May day.
Ministers Rabbitte and Varadkar are the free spirits in the Government, happy to give an opinion on any topic from the Troika to deep-fried Mars bars. No need to take their utterances to seriously. :-))
Well enda , you can start compulsory redundancies with the TD,s , 166 is way to many ,
Then move to the political advisors ( politicans are voted in………not their mates) ,
Next move on to every manager within the revenue commissioners dept, anyone whom was in situe during the banking collapse.
Next to all the layers of high/middlegmt within the HSE.
No move swiftly onto thw quangoes .
There public sector sorted without hitting any front line peoples,
Ooooops …..that would mean some of your cronies would be out of work ……ahh we can,t have that can we.
Go anf grow a pair endwina.
Point is Kenny people have had enough. Get over it and think again.
What an ass enda is
Way bigger asses on here Peter.. Way bigger…
Declan you must feel right at home so…..;-)
The Croke Park agreement is still active and runs until sometime in 2014. Nothing the public sector workers has done during the Croke Park 2 “negotiations” can be construed as not carrying out their side of the bargain.
The Government is, however, entitled to break the CP agreement any time it likes and for whatever reason. I presume they can legislate for the “deal” offered under Croke Park-2 or take the simpler, more direction action of across-the-board pay cuts. There are options.
Either way, it is now over to Minister Howlin and Taoiseach Kenny to take the first step.
As for public sector workers, it is a case of “Crouching Tiger – Hidden Dragon”, I suppose?
Ever hear of CP1 Enda?
ever hear of
CLAUSE 1.28 of the Croke Park agreement on public service pay and conditions states: “The implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration.”
Then why didn’t they invoke the inability to pay clause simon?
They can’t.
no .. they just have no backbone. lame ass government. they have failed the country and people at every opportunity presented to them, they are more scared of loosing seats and pensions than actually doing whats right for the country go get out of them mess as quickly as possible. They will just drag along the bottom with no real plan or conviction, making it up as they go along. CP2 and these lame threats just prove this.
They can’t invoke it because they cannot prove an inability to pay.
So the weasly ginger gimp can go after the front line staff but not after former TD ministers pensions, He is one dopey looking spineless f**ker I’ve ever come across.
How would these clowns in the Dial feel if a loved one was involved in an RTA and due to cut backs an ambulance could not be dispatched in a timely manner.
You just gotta love Enda, his comment translate to “we vow to increase unemployment because you won’t do what you were told”. Why don’t they just force another vote which is normally what our overpaid government do anyway.
I expect most of this government to be made redundant come the next election.
I reckon they have backed theselves into a corner. I would suggest the General Eelection will happen in Oct
Minister for Communications Pat Rabbitte on Morning Ireland earlier today : said there was ’no particular will on behalf of the Government’ to impose redundancies. Ohhh! there will be fun in the corridors today.
enda kenny is depriving a village somewhere in mayo of its idiot
It’s constantly baffling why the good productive hard working members of the PS, of which I have no doubt there are many, stand alongside their wastrel colleagues and defend them to the hilt. Can you not see that targeted redundancies of the wasters would reduce the numbers sufficiently to protect the pay of those left? It must be painful to be taking hits for those you know don’t work. Why go along with it? In school for example, we all had a minority of useless teachers, yet the rest of the excellent teachers won’t even acknowledge these wasters exist, to the extent that it adversely impacts on their own reputations and conditions. Amazing.
We are all experts on Education because we went to school and on Law & Order because we visited the Garda station to have a form signed as a teenager!
Children and teens might not be experts on the theory of teaching, but they’re well able to know which teacher is teaching them properly and which is killing time waiting for the bell and the pension.
This Government really appears to know what it is doing. Coherent messaging, unity of purpose, commitment to a greater good.
Really instils confidence in the future.
Yea make pay cuts say over 50k and the rest could be saved by real reform of the ps. For example loc gov etc.
The only thing the government set out to do and actually managed to it is divide the public and private sectors. We are having a go at each other but If we all stood together the government would have to seek alternative routes to save money and create jobs. It’s easier to break one stick than it is to break a dozen together.
I live the saying ” croke park deal” deal meaning mutual benefit which it’s not
Enda look at the new bulling add on tv.
“If you have no agreement, you have no protection.” Uh, we do have an agreement. It’s called the Croke Park agreement and it runs until June 2014. What Mr Kenny is doing here is nothing short of abrogating that agreement. A party that abrogates agreements is not one with which future agreements can be entered into.
That said, I’m amazed by the way in which discussions of possible public service redundancies always personalise the issue. So, for example, the focus is almost always on this obsessive idea of “getting rid of the dead wood.”
What’s wrong with this picture? It assumes that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the structures in place, just that some people working in them are lazy and feckless and that, if we only got rid of them, everything would be grand.
This picture bears no resemblance to the reality of the public service which is badly in need of structural reform. What does that mean? It means that, for example, the health service and third-level education are both extremely top-heavy with administrators. They have far more administrators, especially central administrators who are detached from the service itself, than they need, in part because of the managerialist ideology in both: once you put real power in the hands of administrators, they tend to hire more and more of their own because all they can see is their (managerial) projects. They lose sight of what their entire administration is meant to be doing: providing health care or teaching/research and see management as an end in itself. At its worst, the purpose of the entire public service becomes perverted into a focus on “efficiency” alone: balancing the books and/or raising revenue takes precedence over treating the sick or educating the young.
The focus on personalisation (rooting out the bad apples) on the part of the public and their politicians will make it such that any compulsory redundancies, were they to be brought in, would have almost no effect on the overall efficiency of the public service. The public service is inefficient (where it is inefficient, which is not everywhere) because it is over-administered, sometimes in the name of the very “accountability” to the public that is often demanded here. But if the focus is on rooting out the slackers, the people who will be charged with determining who is and who isn’t a slacker are the very administrators who are surplus to requirements. Indeed, one can imagine whole new armies of bureaucrats springing up whose sole purpose will be to determine who should be made redundant. The finger never points at these people themselves.
In short, I’d be in favour of compulsory redundancies if I could be sure that the first order of business would be to look at areas of the PS that are top-heavy with management. But if it’s just going to be some witch-hunt conducted by management itself and that only finds slackers among the front line staff, then it’ll end up being much worse than what we have now. The PS will only become less efficient as the ratio of bureaucrats to people who provide the actual service increases.
Here’s more of it. It could not be any further from the minds of those in government, whether or not certain parts of the public are above headcount. If the answer to that question is, “Yes, we have people sitting in offices in the public sector who have no work to do, or there is no longer a role for them”, then the answer needs to be, “we need to some how get that person off the payroll”.
But no, with a Labour government, the normal business needs of the day get set aside and the higher priority is to look after their members who just happen to be in a public sector union.
The primacy of the whole matter is wrong, the prime consideration should be the reduction of the spending of tax payers money that is simply not available, where there is no job function to be carried out. There is no point or purpose in keeping someone who is sitting in an office doing nothing, in a job that is costing tax payers money to keep them there doing nothing, that is absolutely and utterly pointless.
So yet again we are seeing one fundamental rule for the private sector and another completely different form of treatment for those working on planet public sector. There is no earthly reason why we keep doing this, why we keep tolerating the fact that our public sector is allowed to remain inefficient and bloated and disorganised, simply for party political purposes. An audit of the whole sector needs to be carried out and any people sitting on their arses in offices twiddling their thumbs while getting paid a salary of 50K, 60K and 70K and upwards, needs to have their name added to a redundancy list.
There is also no reason on earth why if there are job openings in the public sector, why those already working in the public sector should be afforded preferential treatment for those vacancies, this is part of the nonsense that has been going on in this country that has created and supposed the huge sense of entitlement that we are now witnessing from those in the public sector.
agreed
Cut Public Sector pay for low and middle income earners, pay state-backed BOI chiefs multiples of hundreds of thousands and allow state-owned AIB hike mortgage rates yet again…… Yep, haven’t we got things just right in this godforsaken country………..
Witchhunt as per usual. Sure didn’t the public sector cause the recession bla bla bollox
It’s time for the Government to reverse benchmarking including all State Pensions and Pensions to politicians. Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fáil introduced benchmarking. Enda should be bold enough to legislate for its reversal! If he fails to act there will be no funds to pay Civil Servants in a short time!
No redundancies is joke. There are 500 further education teachers losing their jobs in September.
Kenny, the man if you if you can him that, is a bottom feeder! So full of crap it’s unreal!
This is the leader of a Government who see nothing wrong with Ritchie Boucher getting over 800k a year.
Clueless.
When will people cop on that unless the current government can balance the budget we will have a government in name only as all decisions will be taken outside of Ireland.
Maybe that’s what people want!
Maybe were not fit or able to rule ourselves for the benefit of all.
Is this the Irish Republic or a bust paddyland?
Aidan every decision the government make,they say is part of the MOU with the Troika.So unless they are lying they have no decision making powers.
As for an Irish republic did you miss all those treaties with Europe we were coerced into voting for?
You gotta wonder what everyone on here expects the government to do. They attack them for “bowing to their foreign masters” or “attacking the most vulnerable” or any cut/ increase in tax etc they bring in. Can one person here please tell me what the government SHOULD do and not what they shouldn’t? Anyone? I dont support any political party by the way before anyone starts lobbing that one at me. I just think criticism should be constructive. So?
Mary,
Enforce properly the 12.5% corporation tax rate: circa 4 Billion
a third rate of tax of 48% on what individuals make over 100,000: 320 million
Thats all of last budgets cuts plus the 300 million sought from public service workers covered via 2 reasonable and fair measures, and theres plenty more where the come from such as savings from introducing generic drugs across the board where possible
Maybe you forget who is giving our government money to pay wages if people want to act like spoilt children and throw tantrums go ahead no one in Europe cares.
We can stand on our own as a true Republic or sink as a bunch of muppets who will most likely spend the next 100 years complaining about how badly done by we were by all them foreigners who don’t understand us & the great place we would be were it not for whatever we can blame on someone else.
We either have an Ireland dedicated to ensuring our children’s future or one that takes from our children’s future.
Balancing the budget & living within our means has nothing to do with austerity.
Muppet
Aidan Reilly Cop on— I agree with Chris!
Actions speaks much louder than words Enda
Slash slash slash every overpaid admin in that god awful system. boo hoo hoo I feel so sad. How will they pay their 500k Mortgage on that commuter belt now? Who the hell cares….
Brilliant news!
They can make me redundant if they like. It would be fairer than what they are doing now.
Things are hard enough for all. I wirk in ps and have over ten years. We work for the people in this country from the nurses to the guards. No one wants to wants to strike but a line must be drawn now. People in tge private sector had this option they being doing the same. The public sector has already taken at least 16 per cent pay cut. Tge law needs to be changed to go after tge bonos and the westlifes. There is so much bitterness from the publuc right now really this is what the government are tryong to do. But I ask you thik next time you need a doctor or a physio oh wait tgey have moved to another country.
Ok Enda your job will be first to go
Kenny is talking out his arse… I still have a contract not a proposal! CPA1 is still alive and will continue till next year… Scaremongering is so foolish when everyone is listening by any leader! I watched this session and what a merry-go-round it was!! Kenny could not give a straight answer to any simple question put forth by Mary Lou! Get ready for Industrial action if they try to touch our pay! Enough is enough…CPA proposal 11a or 111…. bring it on Edna/Howlan!
There will be a uproar never heard before in this country concerning our future families welfare! No one is backing down !!!
have your say