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The Daily PollYESTERDAY, MS SUFFERER Marie Fleming lost her bid to be allowed to end her own life with the help of her partner.
Fleming, 59, had sought to overturn the ban on assisted suicide on the grounds that it was invalid under the Constitution and argued that the ban breached the European Convention on Human Rights.
It is a criminal offence to help someone else to end their life but in court yesterday, Mrs Justice Susan Denham said that there was nothing to stop the Oireachtas from legislating to deal with cases such as Marie Fleming’s, once it was happy that appropriate safeguards could be introduced.
Some may welcome the situation as it would enable people like Fleming to end their life if they choose. However, others could argue that it is morally unacceptable to help others to end their life, and that medical advances may mean that a terminally ill person could see an improvement in their quality of life in the future.
Should the government legislate for assisted suicide, if it is happy that safeguards could be introduced?
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Of course this should be legislated for (with appropriate safeguards of course). It’s sickening that a loved one could be charged in helping somebody end their life peacefully and with dignity.
Why are we still even debating this in 2013? I’d like to think if I was in these people’s situation I won’t have to travel to Switzerland to die without the comfort of being with my family.
Yes I think so. Would need to be serious illness though and thorough checks to ensure sanity. It’s a pretty final decision.
It’s terrible that a person who has become immobile due to a terminal disease has to suffer on in pain for the rest of their life,. But if it was an animal it would be considered cruelty if it were treated the same way,
Yes but with serious safeguards in place
Why? Why don’t we just #trustwomen? If you don’t want an assisted suicide, don’t have one. But a traumatised woman shouldn’t have to go through the further trauma of an inquisition just because of your religious beliefs. No barriers to choice!!
Having worked with terminally ill patients in Ireland an the Netherlands where euthanasia is legal, I can safely attest that in Ireland the terminally ill are sooner helped on their way than in the Netherlands. As long as your motive in Ireland is to allieve suffering and not to kill the patient, they don’t scrimp on the heavy duty drugs….. Kinda a don’t ask don’t tell policy….
Can vouch for that too. It’s a low key humanistic approach that many medics adopt…the right to death is as important as the right to life once it’s a personal decision, your decision rather than the state or church decision.
Irish solution to an Irish problem eh… and without the safeguards of proper legislation…
Why is the main argument against euthanasia and abortion always that ‘its a slippery slope’ and ‘it will open the door to……’
Dont they trust themselves at all? Is not the reason for legislation to set limits on things?
Its the same logic that says dancing is a slippery slope to ‘fornication’ or smoking a joint will make you a heroin addict – it doesnt make sense.
These are not sensible arguments
When I was in primary school we had an Irish dancing lesson twice a month… now I fornicate all the time …. if only I could turn back the clock… I’d have taken up Tap aswell
I should be allowed to end my life with the assistance of my doctors with my family present. It is another decision that the government has no right to interfere with.
You’d shoot a horse or put a dog to sleep to end their suffering. Why not the very same for humans – for those who CHOOSE to end their lives.
Yes, I’d say being unable to do it yourself would be safeguard enough, by its very nature.
A grown-up approach without all the handwringing would be nice for a change.
Absolutely. Yesterday’s judgment was appalling. What a backward little country we are.
As opposed to all those forwards big countries that have assisted suicide. Because there’s so many
Ricky unfortunately the judges can only rule on current legislation. It’s up to the oireachtas to change legislation. The judges in the case did state their sympathy towards Marie but hopefully her fight will not be in vain. I believe it should be strongly controlled to avoid any manipulation but the right to die with dignity (assisted or not) is something I feel every human is entitled to, if that is their wish.
For a price, your family dog can be euthanised at home, surrounded by a loving family.
You, however, have to leave Ireland and travel to Dignitas.
I pity Marie Fleming, who has stated that she would rather die at home in Wicklow, in her husband’s arms. She suffers every day because our politicians are too cowardly to legislate for her and others, suffering that awful condition.
There has been no outcry over her husband’s statement that he would help her die. This should show the politicians that they will not suffer electorally by giving her the chance to die as she chooses.
What’s the point in an “I’m not sure” option in a survey?
I’m not sure Tom!
Yes. Absolutely.
It’s for people like Enda, who want to see the results of the pole without making an opinion. “It’s not for me to decide” – Yes it is Enda, you’re our Taoiseach for Christ’s sake.
Not seeing much justification by the “No,s” on allowing legislation with appropriate protections and safeguards in place. Maybe it’s because their argument can be summarised as “coz God says so!”?
Unfortunately for those in dire need of this kind protection from prosecution, I doubt our cowardly government will ever want their names on such a bill. Sure it’s taken them 20 years to enact the bare minimum of abortion legislation. They,re terrified of the social issues.
Too true they can’t make the big decisions at all,but can change car registration system overnight to satisfy superstitious people, #noballs
No by introducing such legislation, the politicians would basically be saying “your life is worthless” to people with terminal medical conditions. You would also be opening the door for relatives etc. putting undue pressure on terminally ill people to shorten their lives.
That’s an interesting view of the world, then again with relations like that..
It’s not saying their life is worthless. It’s saying if you’re in an unbearable amount of perpetual pain and the only outcome is your death anyway, we’ll allow you to die quietly and happily instead of writhing in agony, if you so wish.
What if the person themselves genuinely wants to die?
Ever had to have a pet put down because they were so ill “it’s not fair on him he’s in too much pain”? Why is the same humanity not shown to people who have requested this and gone through the courts to prove its their wish?
Keith
And once that right is there then we are only a little tiny step away from the State making the decision on our behalf.
Little paranoid this morning are we, Rick?
Thats utter bull Keith and you know it. If politicians introduce the choice to end your life peacefully they fully remove themselves from the equation – whereas they currently hold the position “your life is spent in terrible pain and suffering, you will never get better, however we believe you must suffer it up until the very last moment.” My personal decisions on how my life should end are nothing to do with the government.
Also Keith I would think the whole point of very very strict safeguards would be to protect against pressure from family.
On the contrary Keith, I think it would say “Your life has enormous value and therefore we care about your suffering”.
Most of us hope death will either come sudden and painlessly or peacefully in our sleep, but we don’t get to choose how it comes. If it comes not in an instant but as a drawn out process with intractable pain and misery at least we should be allowed to decide how long it will take.
Keith a cancer patient with a terminal illness is assisted to die in his/her final days with an increase in morphine to overcome his/her pain until they finally pass away this is legal and is medical practice carried out by trained doctors n nurses on a daily basis I have experienced hugs from several family members who were saying goodbye to me but I was happy to let them go cause they were in pain if a person wants to end his/her own life before they lose all their senses n experience a horrific end then they should be allowed to do so without any charges to those involved
Ben
You’re wrong! If your death is assisted its not about you it’s about the person who helped you to die and the appalling potential for misunderstandings to occur or for homicide to be disguised as assisted suicide.
Rick, isn’t that what the safeguards are for?
Yes. I worked in the area of adults with disabilities for several years in Ireland and experienced this kind of story on more than one occasion. I can attest that it is inhumane to watch a person lose all dignity, quality of life, power of speech, independence and so many other freedoms that many of us take for granted. It behoves us to grant individuals with the mental capacity to make this decision for themselves. The subject of death/suicide is still taboo in Ireland; however, our personal discomfort with the subject should not be imposed on those who wish to choose how and when they die.While the vast majority of people with MS live whole and relatively happy lives, the ones who have been stricken with the most insidious and progressive form of this disease – and any other adults who endure terminal illness – deserve to make the personal choice to die with dignity.
If somebody wants to end their own life by assisted suicide it should be solely their decision and they should have the right to do so
But lucky enough your god that offers unconditional love will only condemn you to an eternity in hell for this sin….
Another example of our marvellous government not bothering to extend the rights enjoyed by more liberal EU countries to the citizens of Eire. Though these fine people are quick enough to jump in line for the EU finance bosses. The choice should be made available. Those who have objections based on conscience / religion are as free NOT to participate in right to die according to their wishes. It is just bloody selfish not to allow others their right to decide.
This stupid bloody government is still ruled from Rome!
How do you explain Britain & Germany also not allowing it?
Germans travel across the border to Switzerland when they need assisted suicide. They are the largest proportion of non-Swiss nationals who use Dignitas’ help to die. This reduces the responsibility of the German government to provide a solution for their terminally ill. They export the problem just like Ireland exports women who wish to have an abortion to the UK.
In a 2012 poll 71% of UK respondents and 87% of German respondents thought that assisted suicide should be available to their respective citizens. The poll was conducted by Isostar for the Swiss Medical Lawyers Association. I can’t find a result for Ireland where the research was also carried out but the poll is covered here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/30/us-euthanasia-europe-survey-idUSBRE8AT0EG20121130
In this matter, like so many other things, our wonderful government has failed again in not allowing citizens the same legal rights enjoyed by more liberal EU countries. Though these people are quick enough to fall in line with the EU finance bosses.
Yes, but as said above with serious qualifications and an absolute bar on it being excercised on a ward under an enduring power of atourney.
They should legislate for assisted suicide with safeguards like to protect the life of an unborn foetus in the case of a suicidal mother. Just a suggestion!!
Suicide and murder are both sins
So is touching dead pig and wearing a item of clothing sewn with 2 different fabrics. Bible says a lot of crazy crap!!
If you (or anyone) believe it is “a sin” – ie “wrong” – nobody’s forcing you to do it. Individual conscience is a matter of personal choice. So is assisted suicide / living wills and quality of life decisions. People should be able to have the right to that choice.
I thought suicide wasn’t a sin anymore.
Depending on your religion that is.
Some religions like to cut bits off males as their god made them wrong.
I think that’s mad too.
Point is, religion can keep out of it, the grown-ups are talking!
Well said
Says who?
That was for GoGo99 BTW
Yes, there is no reason Ireland could not adopt best practice on assisted death. Switzerland has 72 years experience of it and assisted suicide falls under Article 115 of the Swiss penal code. As such it is a crime if and only if the motive is selfish. The police investigate each case to establish the assistant’s motive. All assisted suicides in Switzerland are video-taped. Once a death is reported to the police, the police, an officer from the coroner’s department and a doctor all attend the death scene. At this time family and friends are interviewed. If a selfish motive cannot be established, there is no crime.
Although not a condition of the penal code, Swiss organisations like Dignitas that assist people to commit suicide, make documented mental competence and incurable illness conditions of their assistance, conditions which could be included in Irish legislation.
So the no arguments: Opening the door to killing relatives is not possible as the door would be closed by conditions. The state will murder us all. Not answering this seriously – I think they are already, indirectly with austerity and suicide rates. Suicide and murder are both sins. So should corruption and ignorance but they seem to be going strong. Why at time of writing this are 41% no? Genuinely, what is the reason for this? Is it stupidity? People don’t understand the poll perhaps? Hardly religion as the churches are empty. So what is the reason that people vote no? Please add to this discussion. Almost half of the people are voting no and there are no valid comments for this side of the argument. No wonder people are leaving in droves. What are people thinking to vote no on this poll?
Yes of course they should legislate but it wont happen. I feel I am old enough and bold enough to make my own choices should the time come. I dont want to hang around in total dependency hell on this earth. My cuedos to Marie Fleming. She has more courage than that shower in the Dail put together.
What’s your point Chuck Farrelly?
Shouldn’t we be allowed to decide for ourselves what we wish to do with our own lives? It should be considered a basic human right. With strict regulations in place to prevent the system from being abused in any way, I don’t see any reason for opposing the idea. People mention that it’s a sin above, which is fair enough if you’re religious, but for those of us who aren’t, that simply doesn’t come into the equation.
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