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ENDA KENNY has insisted that Fine Gael ministers are fully united behind the government’s proposed abortion rules – and that backbenchers within Fine Gael will be expected to toe the party line.
The Fine Gael ranks are almost certain to be divided by the legislation, with several members – including junior minister Lucinda Creighton – expressing unease about the inclusion of a clause recognising suicide as a threat to the life of a mother.
Others, including backbencher Brian Walsh, have already said they will vote against any legislation which recognises suicide as a risk to the life of a pregnant woman – reservations shared by at least half a dozen other TDs.
“I hope we can bring everybody with us on an issue that I know is sensitive,” Kenny said this morning, “and in respect of which people have a range of views.”
Kenny added that yesterday’s cabinet meetings – which meant it was not until after 8pm that the first details of the law were leaked, and almost 11:30pm before the Bill was published – had resulted in “unanimous endorsement” of the proposals.
Ministers had been given time to read through the heads of the bill, digest its contents and offer some feedback before the final version was agreed upon and drafted. Backbenchers, Kenny said, would be expected to follow suit.
“Conscience objection doesn’t absolve people from responsibility,” he said, saying members would be expected “to act and vote in accordance with the decisions of the party.
I have indicated clearly that there will be a requirement for a whipped vote on this matter.
James Reilly later added that while medical rules had always allowed some flexibility in conscientious objection, and required doctors to instead find a colleague who would carry out a procedure if they would not do so themselves, there was no such flexibility for politicians and legislators.
“If it comes to a vote, the government will be persevering,” the health minister and FG deputy leader said. “There’s no doubt about that.
“It would be a very grave outcome for the Irish people and for politics generally” if the proposals did not ultimately get put to a vote.
Reilly said he and his junior health ministers, Kathleen Lynch and Alex White, would be available to attend any party meetings and discuss some of the reservations and questions that their members may have.
Both Fine Gael and Labour are due to hold their usual weekly parliamentary meetings later this evening.
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Sad news. Condolences to the family.
You don’t have to agree with a man’s policies to believe in his decency.
Condolences to family
Yes, his decency was obvious, and he was a true gentleman!
How are the sad bastards downvoting people giving their condolences on the death of a human being.
You may not have agreed with the man but he was a human being and one that had a family who are now greaving.
I hope people show more compassion when you die than you are willing to show today.
If that is directed at me, I couldn’t care less about compassion when I die. I’ll be worm food at that stage.
Proof positive, JimBob, if that is your name, that not even worms can look forward to a happy outcome.
RIP. Sad news. He fought hard during his illness and worked the whole way through it. Brave man to do this. Others may have taken time out of their job to focus on getting well, but he put Ireland first. We may not have agreed with his actions in the last government, but he seemed to be a decent man. Condolonces to his family.
RIP
Terribly sad news. He battled bravely. Condolences to his family.
Very sad to hear after fighting cancer for so long. RIP
Folks, thank you for all your comments.
As you will see I have deleted some of them purely on the basis that on this sad day for his family and friends and irrespective of your view of him politically, it’s important not to spend too much time debating the wrongs and rights of his actions in government.
Let those who know him and admired him mourn his loss and let history determine his legacy but not, I would suggest, on this day of all days.
I would urge you to please refrain from any personal abuse or anything that is prohibited as in accordance with our comments policy.
Thanks again,
Hugh
The very fact you have to say this proves what a disastrous politician Lenihan was …if you don’t like people leaving their honest views on a subject then don’t start a website giving them a platform to do so. Quite frankly I couldn’t care less what ‘your’ policies are because it is the contributors discussion which makes this site what it is and I would never allow any form of media to tell me what to think, say or do, regardless of ‘their’ policies.
Glenn,
As the comments policy stipulates – “We reserve the right to remove without notification comments which we feel are in breach of our guidelines.”
At no point did I or anyone else insist upon what you should be thinking, I merely made suggestions based on some of what I have read here.
People are entitled to express their views but we would encourage users to do so in a respectful manner. A number of people commenting have not done this and we have acted appropriately, as is our right.
Hugh
Actually you did tell us what to think and do….”it’s important not to spend too much time debating the wrongs and rights of his actions in government”……”Let those who know him and admired him mourn his loss and let history determine his legacy”….all your words and they sound fairly direct to me. Like I said previously if you don’t like people leaving their honest views on a subject then don’t start a website giving them a platform to do so. And regardless of what day it is, why should anyone have respect for this corrupt politicians family and friends, when he has shown no respect for ours over the last few years.
They were suggestions as you would notice if you quoted me in full. They were not diktats or orders. I’m not in the habit of telling users and readers what to think and I reject such an allegation.
Users are free to express their views provided they take note and respect our comments policy.
Hugh I sooo agree with you. Though I am in no way a supporter of him politically but as someone who has had cancer and around same age, I worked through treatment but not at the level and stress he did, I am in awe of him and feel this is not the time to talk about his political achievements/failures, he fought the good fight, and his family will miss him dearly. I’m very sad for them.
So sorry to hear the news about Brian Lenihan R.I.P. He was a thoroughly decent man and highly respected no matter what political side people were on. Despite all the woes in Fianna Fail he fought on with great courage and determination and for that alone I salut him. Thinking of his family.
What a brave man, RIP condolences to his family
Show a bit of respect please Jim! The man was very badly advised, that wasn’t his fault. He found out 18 monhts ago that he had one of the most deadliest forms of cancer, yet he continued to work as hard as ever to try and get this government back on its feet. The austere measures he introduced may have made life more difficult for lots of people, but they were the necessary decisions.
He put the country before himself, his health and, now as we have found out, his life, it’s been almost a 100 years since we’ve seen that. That’s how I’ll remember him.
RIP
How does he not deserve any respect? Pancreatic cancer has one of the lowest 5 year survival rates, yet he continued to consume all his hours for the country. He could have been spending time with his family, enjoying his last 18 months, which probably would have been a lot more only for his decision to keep working.
Everybody makes mistakes in their life. He tried to do his job as best he could. He had the misfortunate to become minister for finance when he did. The fact that the IMF and ECB commended his decisions while in office says to me he did the best he could. He certainly didn’t make any of these for personal gain.
very sad on the mans demise, and i wish his family well, but his party and they were all part of it and their cronies in high places cost the mess he was put in charge to sort out so if they had of spoke out at the appropriate time they would not have to work so hard to try and cover up and clean up the mess they have left us with
He was somebody’s son, somebody’s husband, somebody’s brother and somebody’s father. You have all the time in the world to say what you want about him, for the time being stop being a bunch of animals and let his family and friends grieve in peace, without ahving to read some of these illogical and mostly purely offensive comments.
I think your comments are absolutely outrageous. Take a chill pill, Bill.
A very sad day for Ireland.A remarkable example of an absolute fighter in every way. My sincere condolences to his family
very sad news RIP
Condolences to the Lenihan family. A man who persevered through challenging times despite intense pressure and illness. A trait we should all aspire to have.
My sincerest condolences. My thoughts are with his family.
Awh sad news, he seemed like a real nice man :(
Brian Lenihan was dropped into a financial mess created by Bertie Aherne. The mistakes he made were due to lies and misdirection from bankers and senior civil servants. The man fought bravely through a terrible illness, not for his own benefit but in an attempt to do the right thing. Keep your vitriol for those who deserve it. Brian Lenihan could have stepped down at the last election and received a huge amount of money like the rest of the true cronies in FF. He chose to stay on and serve this country. I have no love for his party but I respect this man. Many sympathies to his family for what they have been through in the last few years. RIP.
Well said Dave!
RIP Brian Lenihan. A very dignified man who did his best for our country while holding power in Government. Sadly missed
God rest his soul and my condolences to all of his family.
RIP :(
Farewell to Brian Lenihan, a really great Minister for Children, May he Rest in Peace, Jillian
Very sad news, My prayers are with his family and friends. May he Rest in Peace
I’m saddened at the death of any human but listening to Pat Kenny you’d think it was Eamon DeValera who died. The man was at the helm during, and oversaw, the utter ruin of this country. Sympathy to his family and friends is appropriate but not the high accolades for his political career that are already in the media.
It is the day that is in it.. In years to come History will judge him exceptionally harsh for all that he has done to the country. He made lots of mistakes, nothing but mistakes. Some of his mistakes benefited a few close donors, friends of the party and the very powerful most of his mistakes are going to hammer the vast majority of Irish people in to the mud for the next 40 years. FF mistakes often work out like that, funny how!
God be good to his family, they have lost a father and husband but lets not get carried away.
Well said Soylent…condolences to his family at this sad time but lets not get carried away here and forget the fact the he, along with his FF cronies, have destroyed our country and its future prospects and have caused unimaginable pain on Irish citizens of all ages…may he be remembered with shame and may we learn from his atrocious mistakes.
A sad day for Ireland, regardless of what people think of the previous government , Brian Lenihan was a good honest honorable man who worked hard for this country and dealt with every situation with “the good of the country in mind”
May he rest in peace
There is a time and a place though, JimBob. Regardless of what he did while in power, he was still a human being. I don’t know about you but i was brought up to believe if you have nothing nice to say about someone, don’t say anything at all. What if he was a family member of yours? Would you like it if someone was showing disrespect to them??
Sad to hear that..
Very sad news RIP
Condolences to his family. Like his father he was burdened with a terrible illness. I find it unsettling that his wikipedia page has already been updated.
it was called fianna fail
Why was my comment removed? This man has done huge damage to Ireland, that we will lucky to ever recover from.
This is the typical Irish attitude of never speak ill of the dead.
Yes Jim it is, I’m afraid. Be conscious of the fact that family and friends are seeing this and I doubt you would make such comments to their face at this time.
It was Bertie and Cowen who did the damage. Lenihan tried his best to clean up their mess. But that’s besides the point. He’s a person who’s died from a serious illness. He deserves our sympathy. We can judge his legacy another day, and I say this as a FG member!
Posting such comments would be bad enought at the best of times. But sniping at the dead from behind an anynymous nickname is absolutely beneath contempt. All anonymous posts like this should be deleted if the author is not man enough to identify himself and publicly stand over his publicly posted remarks.
There is an emerging pattern of cranks creating Twitter accounts just to post offensive rubbish on thejournal.ie. I think it is time this site started banning such rabble.
Can I direct you all to our comments policy and remind you of its terms before making comments – http://www.thejournal.ie/comments-policy/
Many thanks,
Hugh
freedom of speech hugh freedom of speech is that not the one of the reason why people are angry because people who speak the truth again the big machine is always told to away,thanks for the platform for gicing us the chance to air our views en masse
that’s such sad news! he fought bravely, hope he rests in peace.
“He was a great patriot, a humanitarian, a loyal friend – provided, of course, that he really is dead.” Voltaire;
Didn agree with most of what he did, but a very brave man out of his depth. But shows that FG/LB are the exact same hypocrites RIP…
RIP
Respect is earned, the simple act of dying does not earn respect. People should be judged for their actions in life when they die. And in my opinion Mr. Lenihan is not deserving of my respect. This is my opinion and I am entitled to it. If you don’t like it then its your problem.
Some opinions are best not vented. Your opinion is wrong!
Well said
Well here’s something you could judge him for. Despite most all of the country hating his guts and having terminal pancreatic cancer, he still turned up for work while he was still able to, and did so without apparently whining or complaining or asking for anyone’s sympathy or respect.
Maybe that will suffice. Or do you think you could all that too if put in the exact same position, because I doubt you could.
I’m deliberately forgetting that he was a Fianna Fail member, I’m deliberately putting aside my opinion of his actions whilst in government and I’m purposefully respecting a man who fought a serious illness and rather than throw in the towel and stay out of the workplace, got up every day and faced it.
Today is a day to put politics aside and recognise that if he were anyone other than a former government member then we would have no issue paying our respects: for that reason I’m ignoring his position and acknowledging the man who fought bravely.
I lost a family member 8 years ago today to cancer so I understand the grief, May Brian rest in peace and may our thoughts be with his family.
RIP
Anytime I’ve posted comments about Cowen & Lenihan, I have been incredibly negative in my appraisal of their time in office and of the legacy they’ve left behind.
But remember, we are critical of Brian Lenihan’s political abilities, not of who he was personally, as I doubt any of us knew here the man.
Also, let’s admit it, he stepped up to serve his country in the political arena (for better or worse) when most of us who snipe from the sidelines wouldn’t have the guts to do likewise.
So let’s save our bile for another day, and mark his passing with respect, if not for the man or the family he leaves behind to mourn him, then for ourselves by demonstrating that we can rise above such cowardly pettiness.
Very sad news. How sad that a man of such high intellect and possessing many other admirable qualities will be remembered as the politician who signed the death warrant of the Irish Economy and our Sovereignty on that fateful night in September 2008. He deserved better.R.I.P.
My comment about Brian lenihan was removed don’t know what ever happened to freedom of speech, if you don’t like someone elses point of view
I thought the red thumbs down button was for that, deleting the journal app off my phone now, useless
Sorry you’ve decided that’s necessary Justin. But this isn’t an issue of freedom of speech, you’re entitled to your opinion but we’re entitled to show a bit of respect towards Lenihan’s family and friends who are all suffering today. Hence, why your comment may have been deleted. Hope you will keep reading even if you’re deleting the app.
you shouldnt speak ill of the dead jimbob hillbill.he was a son,a husband,a father,a brother,an uncle and so on.have some respect.i can tell your only young by your comments.wait till it lands on your doorstep,i hope people wont say things you have said.we are talking about him as all the above,not his political life.all his family have gone through hell the last few years because of his illness and let me tell you i watched my mother die of cancer,its horrible.believe me jimbob hillbill you wouldnt leave an animal die like this . may he rest in peace
RIP, so sad for his wife, children, mother, brothers, sister – seemed a nice man.
I don’t normally speak ill of the dead, but he was the one who bought the banks with tax payer money.
The bankers who are still reaping millions of Euro in bonuses will be at his funeral, and will mourn the loss of the man who rewarded them for bringing this country to its knees with their own greed.
Now it’s quite obvious that the current government are no better. The bankers are still being paid ridiculous amounts of money for gambling and losing, but Mr. Lenihan made a conscious decision to buy out worthless banks and allowed the heads of these banks be rewarded with massive pensions.
Don’t get me wrong. I do feel for his family. I know what it’s like to lose a parent or two.
I really do feel for them.
However, I’m not going to pretend that he was someone who did this country good. He wasn’t.
Mr. O’Connell, you have a page her with his obituary. I’m sure people can pay their respects there.
This is news.
This site allows people to give their opinion on news.
My opinion is that his death, while tragic for his family, and I really do mean that, means that he can never use tax payer money to fund over-paid gamblers ever again.
A woman has lost her husband and 2 kids have lost their dad. Don’t understand the nasty comments. Some people just have no decency or manners. There’s a time and a place and this isn’t it. RIP.
a lot of people have lost their sons and husband,s and some daughters because of decisions these people conjured to feather their own nest and failed the people of this nation 2 this week that i know of,these people i am talking about died of sucide and not a word about it,not al,l to economic strategy,s but some all because of decisions made in a galway tent while they drank champagne and made decisions while the decent people still had to go to work , that is the problem with this country ye forget to easily and it happens time and time again.
Totally agree Derek. The people have lost sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters to suicide, emigration and depths of depression. People have lost jobs, life savings, pensions and above all their hope and dignity and this man was central to it all with his TINA and WAWWA mantra – and we didn’t all party and not everyone benefited from the Celtic Tiger.
This is a day for expressing sympathy and empathy with the Linehan family.
The old adage “if you can’t say something nice” etc.
Talk of the Linehan legacy, and there will be plenty of that, is probably not best dipped into on the day of the mans passing. That is merely common courtesy.
That said, I for one don’t intend to leave today’s constant procession of FF stooges, failed and corrupt political entities, and assorted hangers on, beat their chests anda tear their clothes in the usual hypocritical fashion.
If that goes against site policy, then so be it, but editorial policy aside, it would be on a hiding to nothing to airbrush contrary opinions out of the responses here, once they adhere to common decency, and the usual rules of decorum.
If you do a search on Twitter or hop over to politics.ie you’ll see some furious comments about Mr. Lenihan. I agree that certain types of comments need to be moderated but at the same time The Journal and other media need to recognise the sense of outrage people feel at the dramatic and immediate attempt to whitewash Lenihan’s career. He failed us. He failed the children when he was their minister and he failed the nation as finance minister and this ridiculous ‘tradition’ of not speaking ill of the dead (which is totally arbitrary) needs to be knocked on the head.
I got the same response when i posted a similar opinion on Facebook. Jimbob, you are not wrong, but perhaps ill timed. My only regret regarding my posts is not to have waited until tomorrow to voice them. I too am angered by the legacy of the previous government, one and all, and as the author states, history will be the judge.
“A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.”
The Greeks, as poor and troubled as they are now, had some clever people back in ancient times.
Brian wasn’t much of a gardener, it sadly seems.
R.I.P Brian. :-(
You can assure nothing!
Rip Lord bless hum and his family
Rest In Peace Brian.
He was the only good thing about Fianna Fáil.
What a bloke and a great country man.
I knew he had cancer but I thought he was better and I
was shocked when I seen it in the papers.
Sad day for Ireland but we can now celebrate his life.
R.I.P
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