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FIANNA FÁIL TDs and Senators will today discuss the party’s stance on the Government’s proposed abortion bill, after an intense five-hour meeting of Fine Gael representatives last night.
The weekly meeting of the FG parliamentary party was the longest in memory – easily outlasting those of mid-2010 when Enda Kenny survived a leadership heave – with many members openly challenging the inclusion of a clause on suicide.
Though the tone of the meeting is thought to have been less fiery than previous encounters, it was nonetheless fraught – with some TDs insisting they could not vote in favour of clauses recognising the risk of suicide as grounds to end an otherwise viable pregnancy.
Fianna Fáil’s stance on abortion was copperfastened at its Árd Fheis last weekend, when members backed a series of motions on the issue – including an affirmation that the party is fundamentally ‘pro-life’ and opposed plans to legislate for the risk of suicide.
However, it has been suggested that the position of TDs themselves may not be so clear cut – and with the legislation in no danger of falling, due to the massive ranks of Fine Gael and Labour TDs, members could be offered a free vote.
This could prompt some internal divisions, however, given how recently the party affirmed a pro-life stance – and because the government’s majority in the Seanad is much smaller, and may require the support of opposition parties to be carried if FG senators oppose it in significant numbers.
It would present a political opportunity to ensure internal harmony within Fianna Fáil, however – particularly as its chief rival party faces the defection of a dozen or more members.
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Sick of listening to middle aged men on this matter. Serious lack of female input.
Well said, always thought the same thing
Leading Fine Gael Td Lucinda (female) Creighton is leader of the anti abortion side. She has been vocal in her opposition to this legislation. Think there are 4 females in the cabinet at the present time. Just saying not really an argument. If people elect middle aged men they are the people then tasked to govern. If people want more women in the Dail (which could not help but benefit the whole process) then they should vote for them. Or engage in local political organisations with a view to changing the nominee process. Party memberships in this country is small and therefore people cede power to small groups of people. (I am not a member of any political organisation)
Feck off FF!!!!
Barry I am sick of ageism. Keep your childish comments to yourself. I am surprised your parents let you near a computer.
“I am sick of ageism” followed by “I’m surprised your parents…” really does wonders for your point. The hypocrisy just flows naturally.
It was meant to Jason.
Ageism has nothing to do with it. Its a simple fact that middle aged to senior males make up the volume of the government. More female input on such a subject as this is needed. Or go one better and out it to the people in a vote.
This headline is misleading. It should read ‘Fianna Fáil are going to try and gauge the national mood and capitalise on it.’ Such a soulless shell of a party.
I think FF have played this brilliantly. Easy for them in opposition to give the free vote. Guaranteed in government they’ed have the whip on them like FG and Labour.
FFand brillant in one sentence… i am afraid i cant take it..
The whole lot of them looked like puppies that had been caught pissing on the floor in the Dail yesterday, with the exception of Clare Daly.
She’s been shouting about the need to legislate for X for years, whereas the rest of them did precisely nothing until the inevitable disaster actually happened.
Eamonn
I tithing you’re telling porkies about Clare Daly as she couldn’t have been vocal on the issue for years. She’s only been a TD for two and a bit.
I’m no fan of Clare Daly, however it is a fact, she has been very vocal on this for many years
Rick did she only learn to speak upon joining the Dail?
Em, she had a life before she was a TD y’know?
Or doesn’t that count?
SF also said they would support the proposed legislation, and they also echoed Clare Dalys views that the legislation did not go far enough.
But SF are currently opposed for abortion on demand (i do not agree with their stance) but at least they are in support of abortions in the event of a long miscarriage, Rape, Incest and under-legal age pregnancies.
At least if we got that much through, it really would be a genuine step towards recognizing the womans right to chose what is right for her body.
Do you know how you know we are f@cked?
FF are operating as if they are a viable opposition to anything. And severely worse certain parts of the population still take them seriously after all the harm they have inflicted on our lives. Sad!
Zanu FF are circling like buzzards now to survey and gnaw at the political carcass – pity they didn’t deal with the matter in the 15 years they were in Government : 1997 -2011 they stuck their heads in the sands on the issue… Course FG are only dealing with it because the issue was forced on them too…hardly any better!
No idea why journal.ie is giving any time to what FF think… Who cares..
Declan you seem to since you willingly clicked on a article refering to FF and commented twice.
Praying for Ireland and would invite other Christians to pray with me.
In other words doing absolutely nothing
Says the keyboard warrior!
Jingles, you’ve quickly become the most tedious person on the journal. You seem to have a hard on for certain people.
Ahh morning to you too Janglies. Yeah I reckon he gets a hard on everytime he sees me comment.
Better light a candle aswell stephen and stick a score into the poor box the priest needs to get a new car this year.
Might as well throw some holy water at the dáil while we’re at it
Because I don’t share your anti-religious and pro-abortion views? My heart bleeds.
No Jingles – you are free to hold any belief you wish. However if you enter a debate centered on those beliefs then you should be able to back them up and reply to criticism with more than just pointless whinging.
You should at least have a basic understanding of what you speak.
To date you have shown yourself to be ignorant on both fronts.
But I’m not religious, you just insist that I am because you think you can trump all arguments by saying someone is religious and should be ignored. It makes your thinking look very limited.
I’ve never claimed you are religious Jingles however you seem to jave a blind support of those who are, as evidenced above.
Do you believe people’s religious beliefs should be taken into account when discussing abortion and other matters of political and social importance?
Yes, Jingles is clearly an advocate of respecting religious views. In Judaism, it’s not only an option, but a moral obligation for a woman to have an abortion if her right is at risk. Oh…wait…Jingles isn’t so much respectful of THEIR religious beliefs.
Blind support? I don’t think so. I just happens that some of my views are aligned with some of theirs and it annoys me that some people will disregard them because of that.
As for should their views be heard on matters like this? Yes, I don’t think any group should be denied to have their opinion heard but I don’t think they should be given any special attention either. You can’t really say to someone that your opinion doesn’t matter because of your beliefs.
Nor does he respect Buddhism (abortion is permitted on a case by case basis), Islam (up to 120 days), Unitarian Universalism (freely permitted) or Wicca (fully permitted).
He claims to support the religious but is blind to every religion bar catholicism, perhaps suggesting an underlying belief.
Again he has shown consistently that he is ignorant of religions and varying views on abortion.
If he were even slightly educated in either matter then an open debate would be possible without him resorting to name calling and whinging.
An opinion on political or social matters based on religious beliefs should not be heard or respected in the real world.
Let me explain in simple terms;
A religious faith is by definiton belief without evidence. In the real world belief without evidence is also known as bullshit.
Alan all you do is whine and name call. Just look at almost every post you have ever put up here. And where have I ever said I know anything about religions? I don’t honestly care about them but I just got sick of you being a big man hiding behind your computer.
Well, obviously, it’s totally contextual. I’m a practicing Quaker and my belief in social justice is very much entwined in my Christianity – while I can defend why I belief that without necessarily referencing my Christianity, I’m happy to admit the link is there and I will admit, I’d get a bit annoyed if someone told me that my belief that it’s wrong to let people to starve shouldn’t respected or argued.
A bit of a tangent, but it is contextual.
That just proves my point. Should you be disregarded because you’re clearly religious and will almost certainly play a part in your decision making?
No – but I should be able to defend it without religious justification and open-minded as to other people’s life experience.
Ensoulment at conception is a religious and philosophical doctrine. There are strong arguments (based in science) as to various other points that personhood begins. I personally believe it begins at implantation, but I am aware that that is due to my religion, not science, and note accordingly.
Hiding behind a computer? I use my real name on here Mister Jingles.
Nick that’s a fair point however I would argue that your view on starving people is not one founded in religious beliefs but rather a simple case of human nature (preservation of one’s species) that would be shared by many.
The catholic view on religion (that the life of the unborn be preserved no matter the risk or consequence to the rights, health or life of the mother) is not supported by any substantive evidence or argument. It is simply blind following of faith.
Out of curiosity, and a willingness to educate myself, what is the quaker view on abortion?
Stephen… Will do! Keep the faith
Very much mixed between various meetings (Quakers don’t like hierarchy, so it’s very much decided on the local level.) My meeting would be of my view that it is morally wrong but more harm is done to women by making it illegal.
Of course, we also are opposed to killing in any circumstances (including self defence and war), but I’d be very uncomfortable advocating that that be reflected in government legislation. It’s all between me and God, if that makes sense?
Stephen, I’ll see you down the church for a quick pray.
I might be late so wait there for me.
Makes perfect sense Nick and I respect your application of your religious views. Thanks for the knowledge.
Jingles you should take note here. Nick and I hold different viewpoints yet we can hold an honest, open and educated debate and also learn from each other.
Well, we’re CLEARLY doing it wrong, Alan. You should be telling me I’m an idiot for having an imaginary friend while I should be telling you that you clearly have no morals and that I’m totally suffering from persecution because not everyone has the same religious beliefs as I do. ;-)
The only thing I’ve taken note of is how you change your tune when you know they’re prochoice.
I don’t know that Nick is pro-choice :/
Lmfao!
Nick mentioned that his meeting is anti-abortion with a moral dilemma around risks to the mother. He never mentioned his own personal views.
The fact that I had to explain that to you disturbs me.
Pretty sure Nick is a she. Could be wrong though.
Ill second that “lmfao”. If he has ever read any of her posts it’s obvious she is pro abortion. She states so quiet clearly
I am personally morally opposed to abortion but pro choice. My personal stance on abortion is a religious belief and since I believe in a secular society, I would never enforce that on anyone.
And yes, I am a she. I happened to be cursed with the most masculine surname of all time – really, Annie, I just said I’m morally opposed to abortion, so not sure how I’m a “pro-abort”
Apologies Nick :p
With the amount of comments you put up on this topic and you’ve never noticed hers (she’s always comments on abortion articles)? Then you mustn’t be very observant. Probably because you just go straight on the attack of the likes of Stephen above….. very disturbing indeed.
No worries, Alan. Who I am shouldn’t be as relevant as what I say.
Jingles, Stephen is commenting on a public forum and opening himself up for discussion. I too am a Christian and find people saying that they’ll just pray over something to be a bit lazy, rather than seeking to make a difference through action.
A bit off topic, but any good news yet, Man on the Street?
Fine Gael turns X-Case into X-Factor. Fine Fail turns it into voice of Ireland. 3 like minded doctors, flown in to work one day a week in a clinic? How do people imagine this legislation is restrictive??????
May 2013. The last time the unborn will have rights in Ireland.
So sad isn’t it..:(
Unfortunately I cannot believe anything that FF would propose would be in the best interests of the people
Does it matter to anyone except Fianna Fail what the discuss on this or any other subject?
The Irish Banker/developer/church party known aka FF should just crawl back under their respective rocks…disgusting shower of thieves and hypocrites.
Why are corrupt old politicians debating abortion. Ask the people what they want.
Scrap this, Any news on the shooting at a former FF Councillor in Edenderry today?
Only for the cowards
Did anyone hear “Taliban Mike” this morning on pat Kenny today … Jesus !
I’ll be interested to see how FF handle this. If they support the Bill (and they’ve made noises to that effect) and impose the whip, the poor oul Anti-Choicers won’t have a major party onside, unless SF go with them. There’s potential for as much division among opposition as among govt.
have your say