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Updated 10.15am
NO REPORT WAS made on the Justice Minister Alan Shatter being stopped and breathalysed by gardaí, the minister said today.
The matter came to light last week, when Deputy Mattie McGrath broached the topic on Thursday morning in the Dáil. At the time, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Alan Shatter TD said the incident happened in late 2008 or 2009, at Pembroke Street in Dublin.
McGrath had asked during Leaders’ Questions if the Taoiseach or Tánaiste were aware of an incident where Shatter was stopped and breathalysed by gardaí.
Speaking today, Minister Shatter said that following on from the issue raised in the Dáil last week, the Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality asked the Garda Commissioner to ascertain whether there was a garda report on the matter.
The Commissioner has confirmed that he caused inquiries to be made by local Garda management as to whether or not a report of the incident was made at the time. He is informed that no such report was generated by the Garda member involved and a further local search of the garda computer system has failed to locate any such report.
However, today’s Irish Independent carries a report on the matter, which says that a garda report made on the incident is “missing”. Shatter had been stopped at a mandatory checkpoint and said last week that he failed to fully complete the breathalyser test due to being asthmatic.
He said he had explained this to the garda and was waved on, and that there “was no question of my having consumed any alcohol, nor of my having committed any offence under the Road Traffic Acts”.
A motion of no confidence in Shatter will be brought before the Dáil this evening by Fianna Fáil. The motion was tabled on Friday and will be debated today and tomorrow, with a final vote on Wednesday evening.
Fianna Fáil’s justice spokesman Niall Collins said Shatter’s position had become untenable following his disclosure of a Garda incident involving Deputy Mick Wallace.
Gilmore
Speaking to Morning Ireland on RTÉ radio this morning, the Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore said that he believes Fianna Fáil are “dragging the bottom of the barrel to have an issue to have a private members motion on”.
He said that there are “a lot more important issues in the country that need discussion in the Dáil than whether Alan Shatter was stopped at a checkpoint or not”.
Niall Collins told Morning Ireland that Gilmore is “missing the point” and that the party has “reached a tipping point with this minister”. He said that Shatter’s judgement “has been severely called into question” and that he believed he his unfit to hold the office of Minister for Justice.
He also said the working relationship that should exist between the Minister for Justice of the day and the Garda Commissioner should be questioned, given that Shatter mentioned Deputy Mick Wallace’s encounter with gardaí on Prime Time.
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If you fail to provide a breath sample are you not taken to the local station for further Tests?
It is up to the Garda to decide, they don’t have to. They get to use their discretion.
Yes is the answer there. Discretion has been removed from Gardai only in relation to drink driving and mat checkpoints. Under the new road traffic legislation, any person that fails or refuses to provide a road side breath test ‘will’ be arrested and brought to the Garda station to be processed. However, this new legislation might not have been in force when shatter was stopped.
So on that night, even though he failed to provide a sample, the Garda involved might have been observing him and scrutinising him enough to realise he didn’t have alcohol consumed. She might then have thought to herself, what’s the point in arresting him, he’s clearly sober, and let him on his way.
How do you get them there if you can’t arrest them?
falstaff….the Guard would have scrutinised him and then decided there was ample reason to ask him to take the test..you are missing out on some info on Shatters statement…” there was no question of my having consumed any alcohol, nor of my having committed any offence under the Road Traffic Acts”…simply because as soon as Shatter invoked the Dail Privelage the Guard was prohibited from persuing that particular “question”!!!
Sorry John,
i was just answering Richard griffin’s question directly. I perhaps should have left shatters name out. Johns question was asking do the guards have to bring you to the station if you fail the road side breath test. That’s the answer I gave.
I don’t get this Garda discretion stuff..can someone please explain why the Garda are allowed to be judge and jury or why they are allowed to decide which laws to obey and which are ok to let slide. Isn’t the job of the Garda to uphold the law? So basically we are saying that Garda are allowed uphold a law or not, and it’s ok? I heard the taoiseach say the other day in an interview “The Irish people like the fact a member of An Garda siochana can use his/her discretion when dealing with the public”. How can he make such a statement. Talk about telling us what we like and don’t, I was never aware any of us were asked if it was ok for members of the Garda to decide which people to prosecute and for what law??
Steven it’s really not that difficult to understand. Picture this; you are out with the lads and you have one too many, you’re drunk and falling all over the place. That’s an offence. Should you be arrested and fined or allowed home in a taxi with your friend? To go by the letter of the law you should be arrested and whatever pub you were in should be prosecuted for serving you alcohol. Does that happen? No because in that circumstance (and there being no other aggregating factor) it would not be practical or even just to do so, therefore the guard would let you on your way by exercising their power of discretion. Think of common sense as another term for discretion!
I don’t get all this hype about our Gardai using common sense/discretion in their work. The very people giving out about it are the same ones that always give out about the police and claim we live on a police state etc. Guess what lads, if you take away an individual policeman’s ability to use their discretion when going about their duty we will end up with a police state and a court and prison system clogged up with people that don’t really deserve to be there.
People should also realise that the law is vast and everyone of us transgress it at some stage throughout our dialysis lives, imagine driving down the road past a couple of different guards along the way at different stages and next thing u get a ball of summonses through your door because one of your brake bulbs was blown.
Careful what you wish for
Steven of the Guards didn’t use their discretion we would all be disqualified from driving fairly lively. Every km over the speed limit, every time you don’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign, every time you fail to indicate, every time you use the incorrect lanes at roundabouts, every time you are on the mobile, every amber light you go through when you shouldn’t. And don’t say you obey all the rules of the road because if we are honest we all break them at some stage, both good drivers and bad.
ieoinu
I agree with your sentiment.
However, i would expect that the Gardai do not apply that discretion, when someone says they cant perform a breath test because of Asthma and on their way home from teh Dail. That is just a step to far. If the Garda used discretion and decided not to ask for a breath test, fair enough. However, once a Garda asks for a citizen to provide a test, and the citizen says they can’t, then we are in a totally different set of circumstances.
Can you imaging every driver being stopped in future, using the Shatter excuse? Can you imagine what the courts are going to look like, when a citizen takes their individual cases to Court, and using Shatters incident as precedent?
As i said previously, its the Gardas discretion at the start to make the decision to breath-test. but once they embark on that path, they must see it through (they are legally obliged to). Otherwise, Shatter is in even more trouble for encouraging a Garda to deliberately break the law.
My understanding of the Shatter incident from what I’ve read was that this checkpoint was setup to check a lot of cars and their drivers, not just Shatter. When it came to Shatters turn to provide a sample he tried to do so on a couple of attempts but the sample was insufficient to produce a result. The guards at the scene then had a number of choices, take guards off the checkpoint to take him to the nearest station, call in more guards to take him to the station or having formed an opinion from talking to him and the fact that Shatter stated that he had consumed no alcohol to let him on his way. Common sense approaches need to apply in these situations. However in a case where someone is stopped deliberately on suspicion of drink driving then the process needs to be seen through to the end.
Reg, are you suggesting that anyone coming up to a check-point, use the same excuse … ie attempt to blow twice etc?
Genuinely, If i were a Garda, i would have serious issue with that person being in control of the car.Someone that short on breath, must be a danger to themselves and to other road users. But then again, most other users don’t come out with the line ‘I am on my way home from the Dail’.
Minister Shatter should resign now, both for the Good of the Country and apparently his own health reasons. Win-win situation for everyone.
No I’m not suggesting that Cathal. Plenty of people drive with various types of health conditions. It’s a doctors call to make if they are fit to drive or not.
Cathal the random breath testing checkpoints were brought in so that the garda would not have to form a prior opinion that teh driver had consumed alcohol, the mere fact that they were present driving a vehicle sufficed. A member of AGS is entitled to by law to exercise their own discretion as by the opinion that they hold regarding the state of the driver. The person in this case Alan Shatter (I am no fan) was unable to provide a sample due to asthma, this is not uncommon. Then the guard would have assessed the situation as per the law. If the guard did not form the opinion that the driver had alcohol consumed s/he could not arrest for ‘drunk driving’ as the driver was not drunk. He could have been arrested for failure to provide a sample but if the guard was of the opinion that there was no alcohol consumed and that the result of a blood urine test would prove negative it would be a waste of time and ultimately pointless.
Take another example, your 80year old grandmother driving home from mass (sober as a judge didnt even touch the alter wine) , gets stopped at a checkpoint and asked to blow in the bag, she can’t and gets arrested and brought to the garda station for blood/urine. Would that be right?
technically yes, it’s the law, realistically no. Why wouldnt she be arrested? Because invariably the guard will use common sense ie discretion and wave her on her way.
Everyone is giving out about Garda discretion when WE ALL have befitted from it on numerous occasions, when the real issue that people have is that they dislike Shatter and co. The irony of teh whole situation is that the two muppets who brought this to light benifited from this discretion themselves and Shatter was pointing out their hypocrisy can you not see this???
Fallstaff – that’s not what the current legislation states (goes back to ’05 I think – the ’11 legislation only brought in testing at an accident scene). Failure to supply a sample when required to by a Garda is an arrestable offence. Note the requirement piece. This would have been in force back in 2008 or 2009 when Shatter was stopped.
In one case, a senior garda cancelled a notice for a member caught using a mobile phone on the basis: “Spoke with member concerned. Now satisfied he was not using phone.”
Other records contain bizarre reasons for terminating notices. One contained the excuse “telephone call to hurry home”.
Another was granted because the motorist was “returning from funeral” at a speed of 150km/h at 4.30pm on the day in question.
so just like you, i dont understand this garda discretion stuff either!
As far as I was aware shatter said e was coming from the dail therefor couldn’t be arrested. The norm would be that there person is arrested and taken to a station to provide another sample.
I have benefited from ‘discretion’ more than once. Always appreciated. Been done too. No complaints.
If he was incapable of giving a breath sample due to ‘Asthma’ he should have been taken to hospital. This excuse is the most laughable I’ve ever heard. If your bloody asthma is that bad you shouldn’t/couldn’t be driving
Shatter “don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house !!
Hillary.. I am trying to see what law the Minister broke.. I have been stopped at checkpoints on countless occasions.. and have given a breath sample on 3 occasions (no issue on any occasion)!!! So once again, What law has the Minister broken? Mr Wallace actually did break the law…Mobile phone use is a major contributor to accidents and death on our roads but betting stopped at a checkpoint…??? I just dont see it..
If you refuse or are unable to provide a sample of breath for any reason you should be brought to the nearest station to provide a sample of blood or urine. ANYONE this happens too should be brought to the nearest station, not let go purely on your word that you didn’t have a drink and because you were coming from the Dail. Minister Shatter knew well what he was doing when he said he was coming from the Dail, he knew well the Guard would be unable to do anything. And THAT is what’s wrong.
Declan, are you legally obliged to provide a breath-test, if requested? Are you not legally obliged to provide a urine sample or blood sample, if you are unable to provide a breath test?
Are you not facilitating breaking the law, as a Garda is legally obliged to get a citizen to provide an alternative, if a citizen is unable to provide a breath-test sample?
Correct me if i am wrong, but genuinely, i understood that once a Garda has embarked on requesting a citizen to provide a sample for alcohol analysis, the Garda is legally obliged to see it through (ie the discretionary aspect of their job is removed at that point?). Therefore, Minister Shatter encouraged and facilitated a Garda breaking the law (and she must have done it under the duress of ‘I am coming home from the Dail’).
I really dont see Alan Shatter as an Obi-wan kenobi, being able to magically dissuade a Garda from fulfilling her duties. I feel that she must have felt under serious pressure to back off and let Minister Shatter on her way.
Declan the law is the law unless your Mr Shatter and unable to give a breath sample your told to go on ahead with your journey,The rest or the population would be arrested and brought to court banned from driving fined and a possible jail term, But hey if your Mr Shatter just drive on we’ll take care of the lack of paper work, One law for the law makers another for the rest ,Can’t you see why Ireland is corrupt to the core! This would never happen in the U.S or U.K
the report ‘dissapeared’, big surprise
I beleive the truth is that the Minister attempted to give a reading on two occasions but neither registered. The gaurd in question made a judgement that there was no drink or drugs taken at the Minister was free to go…
If you are accusing him of being drunk or under influence of alchohol while driving then just say it…. Stop hiding behind all this other utter nonsence
Hillary,
If the guard in question thought that anyone in that situation had not taken alchohol then they would not be dragged to the station… Not you, not me, not anyone… It would be a complete waste of time… This is such utter nonsense and once again is an example of the FF (Irish Independent) trying to manipulate with a lot of sucess i might add the general public…
I dont believe he did Cathal… I don’t believe the Minister had any alchohol on him or taken… So i actually see no point in the conversation at all.. None… Sober man fails to complete breath test at random check point on way home from work??? What a huge story that is…
The Indo! Don’t make me laugh!
wallace “ticked off” for using mobile phone,,,,logged……
Shatter, breathalysed, fails to complete test, uses Dail privelege. not logged..(Indo says its “missing”)
““there was no question of my having consumed any alcohol, nor of my having committed any offence under the Road Traffic Acts”…..thats because once you used Dail privelege the Guard could not ask those questions!!!!
sickens me more to hear your fellow ministers waffle on about “the best minister for justice ever”….how long more must we suffer these fools!?
You are right, Shatter was able to get Garda info about a Garda waving a finger at Wallace about using a mobile phone at traffic lights….
Meanwhile, Shatter can’t find ANY info on his refusing to give a breath-test or being ‘offered’ the right to give a blood/urine sample, like everyone else would be?
You couldn’t make this stuff up. Time to go Mr Shatter.
Just like his Rolex, Fake
Shatter should go alright
Odd that I could have sworn I read in last weekends Sunday Independent that the Garda involved allegedly said she had generated a report. The mystery deepens….
Report is missing it seems. If true, the Garda Commissioner I believe should also go as the good name of the force is being dragged through the mud by this affair. Hard to believe one word from his mouth at this stage.
How very convenient !!!
*Shatter, but what a great mis spell
I have a funny feeling that there is alot more to come to light in relation to this arrogant minister. I predict he will step down within the fortnight. Here’s hoping.
Did he attempt to perform the test or outright refuse?
In your opinion.. Do you think he was over limit or not??? Have the balls to say it or withdraw
Declan, i withdraw nothing. I have statements form two people.
One of them, a fine upstanding citizen and a Garda. The other is Alan Shatter.
What we do know for a fact, is that Alan Shatter went on National TV and reported information on an opposition TD, that was private and confidential. This information was used to score political points in order to discredit that TD.
What we do know, is that Alan Shatter stood up in the Dail this year and lambasted an opposition TD for using Dail privilege in relation to a motoring offense.
Now, we have the same Minister for justice, (according to the Indo article) being accused of 1) Failing to provide a breath test, to the satisfaction of a Garda (as per the law) and 2) using his Dail privilege as a pre-text.
This is the same Minister, who told Clare Daly, and the rest of the Dail, that after an ‘extensive’ investigation, that Gardai do not provide special privileges to him, his party or any other citizens.
See, i have the balls to tell the truth … do you have the balls to accept it?
Declan, can i suggest you go and read animal farm and you will understand
Missing the point. The Gardai are the real problem here. The Garda who disclosed confidential information concerning Alan Shatter to Mattie McGrath for political purposes should be charged for doing so. Same goes for the Commissioner over his disclosure concerning Mick Wallace to Alan Shatter. Same goes for the Garda who handcuffed Clare Daly. Same goes for the Superintendent who wiped penalty points from a Mayo based Judges license. It goes on and on and on.
For a lad with asthma he sure blows a lot of hot air!
Some get points wiped. Others get entire records wiped.
Shatter is such a wind bag.
Oh wait…
Just confirmed on the world press: Ireland is officially a feckin joke run by clowns.
Keep digging Shatter…
Beyond incredible. As such our minister did not obey an instruction by a member of the gardai which is an offence covered with points. I dont care if he was not drinking. If i was in this situation I would be arrested for 1 not cooperating with a direction of a garda & 2 failing to provide a breath test. If this man was suffering with a breathing condition why was he driving a car. I doubt he was insured if he had an accident. I would like to hear from Mr Brett (no pun intented)about a person that cant breath into a breathalyser & if that person is fit to drive.
Lets say you pull up at a mandatory checkpoint. You haven’t been drinking so its not the same as being stopped because a guard saw you weaving down the road. You’re asthmatic so you can’t complete the test. Despite the guard being very certain that you aren’t over the limit, you lot think that guard should arrest you. So while he or she is doing that, and maybe (presumably?) having to head back to the station with you, leaving the checkpoint unmanned or at least with reduced coverage, a guy who is over the limit escapes because there’s nobody there to breathalyse him. Then proceeds to run down some old lady. But it’s ok because the guard followed the letter of the law.
This is not the same as a TD driving while on the phone – that’s illegal and dangerous. Likewise if the guard though shatter had consumed alcohol and he had then failed to complete the test, different story.
Use your bloody heads and stop making stupid arguments about things you don’t have all the facts on. You don’t have to like our politicians but this irish thing of jumping on every hint of a transgression with a holier than thou attitude really wears thin, there are far more important things for ministers guards and civil servants to be doing like fixing the country instead of trawling through records looking for this kind of crap. Then you wonder why we need so many civil servants.
Ronan, the Garda has the discretion to test you on the spot. They can let you go without a test, if they want to. However, once they ask you to provide the test, both you and the Garda are legally obliged to complete the process. There are no ifs-and-buts about this.
Ronan the minister committed 2 offences Failing to comply with a garda when directed & failing to give a breath sample. Even that aside should a sick man with breathing difficulties be permitted to drive a car. I didnt make these rules but I must comply with them so why should a td be able to avoid this. If these rules are not that important can we all avoid them when clearly we are capable of driving. As a truck driver I can safely say that I dont need to comply with a lot of rules as they are overly technical & bare little impact on road safety. Should I too be let infringe on these rules like this td.
There is a huge difference between you deciding that certain rules don’t need to apply to you and a guard deciding that a particular test, carried out as a result of a random checkpoint as opposed to forming an opinion that alcohol has been taken, will not produce any result. There’s also a difference between breathing normally and having to blow continuously into a tube.
Its not for you or him to decide if he is fit to drive. If he had breathing difficulties he should not be driving. If on the other he was fit to drive he should have done the test. Breathing into a breathalyser does not require huge effort.
You’re right, and it’s not for you either. It’s for the guard at the time, who obviously formed the opinion that he was fit to drive. Unable to blow continuously into a tube does not equate to “breathing difficulties”.
I’m so pleased the journal didn’t use the word ( justice) before minister in the heading of this article.
He is clearly shaking like a sh1tting dog! ..though protest too much
What a sad man this Shatter is.
Don’t you know who I am?
Yes sir, Indeed we do
A repulsive little excuse of a human
who’s let power and self-importance corrode the office you were given by the people.
So, no Garda report on #Shatter incident. If so, how do we (and Commissioner) know what happended at the checkpoint?
Bazinga!!!
There is one lesson that Shatter did not learn people in glass houses should not throw stones
And you may have also missed a few lessons, in punctuation?
Grammar police, wreck my head!
Chris you don’t start sentence with “And” lesson complete ;-)
Feel free to read this Royston. http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/01/can-i-start-a-sentence-with-a-conjunction/
Takes a FG boy to come out with a line like that
Chris
People often use their phones to make comments on the Journal, it’s very difficult to spot mistakes on a small screen. The points made by people however misspelled or punctuated are just as valid as yours.
It’s not really clever to point out every minor grammatical error. In short give us a break grammar nazis.
My comment is intended for grammar nazis in general not specifically at you Chris. : )
No thanks, I didn’t bother clicking your boring link mate sorry
Chris take it that you are one of the FG boys coming out .
I just wish people would at least try to use the language that has been imposed upon us in a way which does not make us look like complete illiterates. It is a bit rich to blame phones all of the time when in reality the same people would most probably make the same basic errors when writing in ink. Tell me what is wrong with wanting to be able to read something without having to try to decipher something which reads like it has been written by a demented chicken?
@Alan- I am far from being a FG supporter.
@Royston – Did you bother to check the link which I posted? If so, would you care to reply and perhaps admit that you may have been mistaken?
As for Minister Shatter’s situation, it will run and run yet nothing will actually come of it. How can I be so confident? Well past experience will tell you that this type of episode rarely, if ever, results in resignation or sanction in this beautiful little puffin colony of ours.
You need a hobby mate, you’ve lost track of the blog here..
(I took the time to check my spelling & grammar for you, I wouldn’t want you having another melt down)
Well Royston, you took the time to (incorrectly) point out that I was in error, therefore I took the time to reply to you and to enlighten you on the aforementioned error.
Before you correct people you should try to ensure that you are speaking from a factual basis and not from urban myth.
Good day Royston.
Zzzzzz
Rapier wit.
Royston
You left the little word “a” out of your own sentence !
Chris go to posh boys.com lol
Alan, there is absolutely nothing posh about wanting to use the English language correctly. If you feel the need to mock someone to make you feel better about your own inadequacies then by all means fire away.
Chris I to from time to time have found mistakes on the journal by people who post I dont jump in you made a mistake conment. You have done the very same as what Alan Shatter did on prime time we can debate on this forum and other forums and have the crac so less of the teacher line. Thank you.
Chris if you get stressed out by my posting please skip over and go to a post that wont stress you out but for me I will still post and if I make a mistake so what its not the end of the world maybe it is for you.
Some gaul that man.
And no report was generated after Wallis was waved on, yet Shatter still felt justified in sharing that knowledge with the nation
Clare,
The differnce is that Wallace was breaking the law…. Getting stopped and breath tested as i myself have is not!!!!
D
But refusing to provide a sample is breaking the law Declan,as Cathal said above the garda used their discretion when they decided to breathalyse him,they cant use their discretion to say ‘ah sure go on’ when someone then fails to provide the sample they have been asked for.
Shatter brought this on himself,if he had of kept his mouth shut instead of trying to smear Mick Wallace then none of this would ever have surfaced.
Thanks McBab :) I didnt say he did that, i said there was no proof he didnt do it. He admitted himself he used ‘coming home from the Dail’ as an excuse.
If he hadn’t used the ‘coming home from the Dail’ excuse, i am pretty sure there would be a Garda record somewhere. After all, Wallace had his finger wagging incident details aired on TV … I am guessing its because he didnt use the excuse ‘i am coming home from the Dail’, or is it because, we have an incompetent minister for justice, who doesnt know how to use his Ministerial powers appropriately.
McBab, as a FG supporter, i am sure that you have no concerns that the Minister would air your encounters all over the media. I am not a FG supporter, and i am concerned about my rights as a citizen, being abused by Minister Shatter.
Cathal. For your information I am not a FG supporter. But I am a supporter of our democratically elected Government who are, in my opinion, doing a good job getting us out of the mess we, and most of Europe, are in. I don’t care if public representatives have charisma, are photogenic or come top in popularity polls. I am not a teenager and have moved on from such shallow judgements.
There is no report gone missing, for f&ck sake people this is some waste of public time. Its the usual tactical bull that is often used to distract the public from what’s being done sneakily behind the scenes
Who cares? Can ye please get on with running the country now?
I would strongly disagree man,
Public representatives being treated differently to you or me is a big deal In my opinion. You may feel its cool for protocol to go out the window but I really don’t. These guys get a few thousand votes and suddenly don’t have to provide breathe samples or get issued tickets for being on the phone. Call me crazy but I believe in equality.
By the way, I don’t believe this has only happened to the two guys arguing. I would guess there are 5 or 6 career politicians in there keeping their heads down till this blows over. Which it will, because FG have labour in their pocket.
Have a great day, I love you all x
Agreed… at this very late stage, Shatter should resign before the motion of no-confidence in the Dail today, and let the rest of the Government get on with, well, Governing.
Its been almost 2 weeks of Dail time at this stage, being used up by one man, trying to defend the indefensible. ‘When you are explaining, you are losing’ mantra definitely applies here.
If the Garda at the centre of the latest Shatter controversy is willing to make a public statement on this matter, based on her encounter, that clearly showers Shatter was, at-best, economical with the truth and it worst, well, we all know that.. Why waste even more Irish Parliament time discussing it. In England, an MP would stand down within 1-2 days. In this country, they cling on, kicking and screaming and subvert the parliamentary sessions to their own personal end.
Hi, Cathal. Yeh it has gone on too long. Should have been cut and dry, but FG know it will get voted down and it buys them all a few weeks peace. Especially with the property tax debacle.
These guys are masters of playing and manipulating the game. It’s all they do. No substance just bull.
The issue was whether a report had been made by Gardai. The fact that the Minister responds that there is no report, having checked with the Gardai via the head of his Department is JUST PLAIN WRONG. It shows a continuing arrogance and poor judgement on his part. He should have had nothing to do with the question or the answer because he was the person implicated in it.
This law protecting TDs going to and from the Dail needs to be removed immediately. I have heard several debates on it and its continually downplayed saying it affords little protection. But yet we see PJ Sheehan in 2011 abusing Gardai when drunk behind the wheel within ground of Leinste House. And Shatter – the man who doesn’ t know when to stop digging. He can’t seem to backup any part of his story. If the Garda made a report – its there – it will be found. The night that they socialised Anglo debt to our children – how many drove home after a few scoops I wonder?
Did Mr Shatter buy alcohol in the Dail bar the evening in question? Simple to find out (and cover up I suppose). He needs to do something positive rather than just deny when he can’t back anything up.
The law concerning TD’s traveling to the Dail exists to prevent a Garda who for instance does not want abortion vote to go through maybe detains a TD who he suspects supports the bill preventing him from voting . This law exist for a valid reason.
The law as far as I’m aware only prevents the TD being detained on the way to a vote not returning from one , it is not immunity from prosecution only detention at a specific time .it does not prevent the TD from being prosecuted by way of a summons for something like speeding.
This law is being abused by TDs and misinterpreted by Gardai or their superiors.
Can a TD rob a petrol station on the way to or from the Dail and claim immunity ?
Joe its definitely is going to or returning from the Dail. So a TD over the drink drive limit can’t use it – I don’t believe that to be true. In fairness our society has moved past Gardai detaining TDs to avoid a vote – time for the law to be repealed. And for TDs to be accountable for their actions
Ger, You are correct I looked at this again , but since it is in the constitution we would need a referendum to remove it.
13. The members of each House of the Oireachtas shall, except in case of treason as defined in this Constitution, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest in going to and returning from, and while within the precincts of, either House, and shall not, in respect of any utterance in either House, be amenable to any court or any authority other than the House itself.
Wish they would all get back to trying to run the country. This is getting very boring
Brian, don’t read the articles then. No-one is making you.
Cathal, it not just the articles it’s the Dail time etc that it’s taking up
the old irish trick in the cartel ,the paper work goes missing is shredded cant be found when it suits or paper work is forged to suit . time for to come clean and tell the truth and stop the cover up by the gang the people are watching “them and us”
Section 10(Mandatory Alcohol Tests) of the Road Traffic Act 2010, which came into operation on 28 October 2011, provides as follows:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0010.html
‘Without reasonable excuse’ is the kernel of the argument really.
Correct Barry. Except this incident happened in 2008 or 2009 before this legislation was enacted.
You’re just like a lot of opposition deputies, a bunch of terriers. Let him get on with his job. The shitters want to shatter him so he’s forced to resign.
..meanwhile back on earth
We ‘Shitters’ as you call us, want a fiar justice system that sees everyone treated equally. Is that too much too ask?
Really, is it? We want a justice system, where the Minister for Justice does not go on National TV to blurt out state secrets. We want a minister for Justice that will hold his Garda Commission to account if they are bringing up ‘finger wagging’ incidents at the highest level meetings.
We want a Minister for justice that doesn’t support having independent TDs followed around, so that their smallest indiscretions published in the media …. even arrests using handcuffs that end up being false arrests.
Really, is that not what you want in a Justice Minister? And if he cant do this job right, what sort of advice is he giving to the rest of the cabinet in relation to strategic thinking in order to help the rest of the country break out of the mess we find ourselves in?
Irish Government and strategic thinking in the same sentence, anyone for an oxymoron?
Wow… Ed…I love it! It’s like a new kind of surreal politico rap thing you just pulled off there ya feckin gem.
LOVE IT
You should pop a cap in their ass!
sure he is not even doing his job
Yeah, it was inspired by the Fugees…
I used to be underrated, now I take iron, makes my shit constipated
I’m more concentrated
So on my day off
With David Sonnenberg I play golf
Run through Crown Heights screaming out, Mazel Tov!
Problem with no man
Before black, I’m first human
Appetite to write like Frederick Douglass with a slave hand
Street pressure word to poppa, I ain’t goin’ under
One day I’ll have a label and make deals with Tommy Motolla
Momma always told me “You’re one in a million”
Always watch your back, never tangle with Haitian Sicilians or Politicians
where is all the red thumb gardai gone to my above
Tight homie. Tight
Apparently you could hear the buzz of a shredder in the background!!
Mossad
Speeding, using phones while driving, breathalyzers. There’s alot worse crimes all them corrupt bastard are guilty of.
Maybe he thought he was in Kerry
so no report , i wonder why??????
Mr Commissioner have you taken a look at the super in charge of the traffic at that time when alan shatter was stopped and the taking of his penalty points is it a fact that he took the points and refused to have them written off come clean now
Quite unbelievable and unforgivable in my view as I expected the Gardai to uphold the law and investigate to an acceptable standard in order to find the causative factors in my sons death.
Drink driving collisions are not accidents, nor should they be treated as such.
Does this Minister bestow trust in the system or in our trust that things have changed? I’m sad to say, no he doesn’t !
At around the same time as this incident with Minister Shatter, road victims advocacy groups were calling for the removal of Garda discretion or a Garda having to form an opinion before he could request a roadside breath test where death or injury had occurred in a road traffic collision. In 2009, and in the years preceding, more than nine out of ten drivers who were involved in FATAL collisions were NOT TESTED for alcohol and road traffic victims and bereaved families received no form of justice because of this failure. New road traffic legislation removed this Garda discretion and made it mandatory to test for alcohol where death or injury occurred….Unless such a test would be prejudicial to the health of the driver. Minister Shatter would escape with the same asthma excuse were he to kill another road user! This defeats the whole purpose of making such testing mandatory. Our roads must be kept free of drunk drivers and a Garda cannot decide by looking at somebody whether they are indeed over the 20mg or 50 mg limit, whichever applies to them, and whether their driving is indeed safe. A failure to provide a sample of breath must then be followed up with a urine/ blood sample under the law.
With a bar in the Dail which is well visited by deputies in Dáil Éireann, the same law must apply to all. Otherwise the integrity of the whole system is called into question. My own son was tragicalky killed in a collision in 2006 and the other driver who was uninjured wasn’t tested
Irish politics is like Made in Chelsea for intellectuals.
I would say it the other way.. Made in Chelsea is the intellectual version of Dail TV
Just another day in the banana republic/tax haven. report either has being deleted, shredded or walked out like so much else. These people are above the law and everyone knows it, so what if emigration and unemployment is destroying this country. Shatter started this to draw attention away from the gardai now the whistle blowers stories ring true. I am still puzzled by why so many GAA players private information stored on the pulse system was accessed, not surprised that the GAA have made no statement or seem in anyway outraged by this. maybe the GAA themselves check to make sure that county players are from the right background or maybe seeing that so many county players are gardai that this information is used to “get an edge over their opponents. Once you have a corrupt political system that has already bankrupted this country, enacting laws that protect those who have lobbied and donated money to the right people and parties. All of which happens without any written records or disclosure to the taxpayer who then is surprised when brown envelopes turn up in councillors pockets. No one person or whistle blower will ever be able to change what we have allowed ourselves to become, we might as well just except that we are a corrupt country with corrupt politicians bleeding us dry willing to accept any behaviour from themselves so long as the taxpayer keeps paying for their mistakes.
Bart Simpson comes to mind immediately……”.No one saw me, you can’t prove it”
have your say