The one with the northern accent, her voice was filled with venom as she shook the kids.
I think she should get out of the area for good if she knows what is good for her.

Also the Directors, Snr HSE, minster for children should be held accountable, Its a bloody disgrace!! Where the hell was the minster last night, what is more important than the safety of our children?? How can she stay in her position when this has went on on her watch and would have continued if not for the reporters!!

How can directors, ministers etc be held accountable? This information only came to light in the last week? Are senior management meant to know what is going on in every creche up and down the country? There is enough inefficiency in the health service without removing delegation of responsibilities.

She was in the Dail defending Alan Shatter

There is a HSE report which states regulations have been broken by 75 per cent of Creches and this report has been sitting there for a year!!!
Who do think should be held accountable for that Mathew? ????

The undercover childcare workers/journalists reported their findings to the HSE back in March. A lot of staff reported abuses to the HSE but sod all was done.

Sorry Matthew. That doesn’t cut it really.

Totally agree, flipping babies over on mats. Made me sick to my stomach. I hope and pray these people are prosecuted. So upsetting watching it!

Eh hello mattew the hse visited one of the creches an it wasn to standard an ehen returned stil nothin was done they missed regular visits to the creches an one of the creches it was four years since they visited so it al comes back to the hse not doin there job there a holy disgrace an should b ashamed just as much as them girls who abused the kids should sn lets face it that’s wat went on an the hse stil sit back an let it happen physical mental an emotional abuse to innocent young babies but then again wat more should we expect from them they sat back while children were put into homes bcos there home wasn’t safe an let kids be sexually abused its al there fault every last bit for not doin there job an were was our minister last nite defendin shatter our government is a laughin stock an have too much to answer for I jyst hope them mothers of them poor babies bring charges to them an claim the creche the hse the lot for not doin there job to standard they al played there part the mothers of the children signed contracts so do the wrks the hse that the children be in lovin caring happy safe enviroment an broke it so they should b givin every last penny back an compensation for the trauma of it al an when the kids hit righteen they should b compensated bcos its them was put threw it over the hse been a holy fu…n mess along wit our joke of a government…..

they found out long before this week, didn’t you watch the programme?
75% failed inspection before this show and the testing team was way to lenient and inadequate.

That’s my point it al cums bak to the hse bein a joke…

The problem with ministers being held accountable is the fact that they always respond in a hyprocital sympathetic way. The cutbacks are a direct decision by government, therefore the ministers claim no responsibility. The proper way to control such criminality is for any business failing proper standards to refund any subsidies plus a substantial fine and this money could be allocated to compliant suppliers of the service to help them to maintain proper standards. Of course this would require ministers to impliment up to date legislation which should be in place before these businesses get permission or contracts to operate at any level. Will this happen of course not as they have legitament expection of lasting long enough to collect their pensions.

Yes they are supposed to know! They are responsible and accountable for their business, the staff, staff training, staff development, overseeing the running of the business by simple basic management skills ensuring the checks and balances are carried out and most importantly ensuring the safety and care of the Children they are paid handsomely to mind.

look people THIS COUNTRY OF OURS IS ROTTEN FROM THE TOP DOWN. UNTIL THE PEOPLE STAND UP AN SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH IT IS GOING TO BE NO DIFFERENT. NOW WHAT WE DO I DONT REALLY KNOW. U RING UR T.D s OFFICE AN THEY DONT CARE DONT EVEN RING U BACK .

I agree wit u totally we al give out an talk but none of us is gettin up an doin sumtin to stop it its our home country in wreck an ruin an I think every one shud join togethet an do somethin to stop it bfor it gets worse people are loosin there homes every day an goin wit out meals to feed there children an then they hav to look at that sh*t on the telly there kids been treated like animals an them payin money d havin got on the kips d country is a joke an unless we people get off our h@@e we mite as we’ll shut up complainin….

No they are not but it certainly raises concerns as to which ones are the ones to trust.. Every Parent now has to be even more vigilant as trust is clearly going to be an issue going forward!

Fdl, prime time show would of at least made parents paranoid about whats goin on in their own kids creche. Shocking stuff altogether.

Not in close knit community crèches where the workers know some of the families.

the one thing all the creches had in common was that it was a chain profit making creches where staff management was tougher if you go to the independant creches you will gett a better friendlier service where its easier to talk with owners
yes it was extreamly shocking but now parents can take a more active role by looking at the carrers referances, cheacking out the garda vetting and seeing what aspects of security are in place ie security cams in the room, perhaps do random requests to look at footage or random observation days there are active measures they can do after all they are placing there children there with the hard earned money

My friend did that, checked garda vetting, had a social worker inspect creche, it still didnt stop her son from near drowning, leaving him 95% brain damaged and now lives permanently in the sunshine house.and yes, it was 100% the creche workers fault..i wouldnt send my child to a creche, last nights programme just reconfirmed my fears.aint happening, no way no how!

Some based on one creche all creches are bad?

Tell me, do you fear your GP? Are you wary everytime you go to one? Do you think your GP will murder you?

Cause you know one GP in the UK did that so they all must be dodgy……

Barry, Nobody is saying they are all bad, they are saying how do you know which ones are bad?
You don’t know. You are just hoping the one you picked is a good one.
Do people really think RTE just happened to pick the only 2 bad crèches in the country? Get real.

No, obviously there are some good one’s, i just wont be taking that chance…thats MY CHOICE,MY DECISION..

For those that are still shocked after what they witnessed last night on Prime Time make sure you voice your concern to the minister of children who did not even bother to turn up to the studio last night to discuss this, or even send someone from her office!! frances.fitzgerald@oir.ie, minister_fitzgerald@dcya.gov.ie

barry, that is a very weak point and you are suggesting a scenario that isn’t happening. No one at all is witch hunting creche workers. There is a problem in the area of childcare, does addressing that strike you as doing something wrong? That is in fact what you are saying. Like if you saw a documentary on this murdering doctor you would say that by extension we suddenly think all doctors are murderers, because the documentary cause a lot of public comment. Does being against drink driving mean you are against driving? cop on barry.

Barry, that type of comment is pointless. The system should have inspection and automatic penalties built in. Like our property tax, but of course thats revenue collection where as our children cost the state so they wont spend the money on the srevice as the banks and grant grabbers come first.

That’s very true Francis but at the same time places like this need to be exposed people need to be held accountable hard working parents are paying top money and expect their children to be look after in a safe environment and treated correctly and kindly and not manhandled and abused

its happening in lots of creches dont be fooled francis. under 3s which is whats in creches cant verbalise whats happening to them so how will you know

Don’t be a dick Alan! You know what she means you clown! Leave the grown up talk to parents!!

Francis, no one will care for someone else’s child ‘as if it were their own’. Let’s be honest here at least. I’m sure many who work minding children are very good at the job and manage to keep calm throughout each day. But the love is not there.

Dan, honestly untrue. Obviously the connection with your own child is stronger than anything else but the love most certainly is there in alot of cases. I was a nanny to a baby for a year and I loved her to pieces, still do years later.

Yes Alan lawlor. That’s my excuse for being late. But you know what, don’t freak out or anything, but I’m a civil servant and I have flexi time so I’m not really late. If its after 10 I’m late but I’m just there now

A nanny isn’t the same as a crèche worker. You built up a personal one on one relationship with the child. Much like an aunt. Completely different to a crèche.

The programme made it clear they had gone undercover in crèches that there had been complaints made about.

…Justified complaints, it appears!!

Agree MOTS it is a different situation, I’ve worked in a crèche also and the relationships are not as strong but there is definitely love or at least affection there for alot of staff.

Erin, you loved the minders you say. Did they love you? And if so, how do you know? From what I’ve heard from numerous child minder nannies from a 1-on-1 minding situation to a group 3-5 kid setup the love is not there. Sure the kids ‘love’ the minder but thats a basic instinct driven into humans, affection towards those in charge of you, not real love. And after watching that show last night the Stockholm syndrome comes to mind. It’s a job. The only attribute that sets a good childminder apart from a bad one is how patient they are with someone else’s child.

Friends locked in cupboards in childminders when they were young, trainee childminders leaving the industry after witnessing such horrible environments in the crèches, I could go on.

There are a lot of mistakes a person can make but to bring a child into the world only then to give it away for hours each day to these unknown quantities is genuinely worrying.

Dan, I said I loved the child I cared for and I still do. She was attached to me aswell, yes. Unless you have worked with young children you can’t comment on the bond, it’s as simple as that.

Your finishing comment is ridiculous. I suppose children should be home schooled aswell, keeping them constantly with their parents? Have you any idea of the developmental statistics regarding children who have attended pre-school education?

and thats also untrue dan i treated all kids as if they were my own but its creche laws they dont want you to give children cuddles if they cry look theres bad workers and bad bosses in every job and they must be taken out not the whistle blowers as is what happens

My nanny was like a surrogate grandmother to me – and yes, she still stays in touch and always wants to hear what I’m up to.

Frankly, it’s only been in the last 60 years that there’s been this idea that children can only be cared for by parents. For centuries before, extended families had a massive part in childraising – the idea that no carer can feel connected to their charges. is a bit ridiculous.

Dan, as a parent and childcare worker I can state that it is certainly possible to care for other children as you would your own. No the love, to the degree of intensity that one loves one’s own children, is not there, but there is certainly tenderness, compassion and a deep sense of caring for and enjoying the company of the children we are entrusted with. It’s not simply a matter of ‘keeping calm’ (which comment implies that all parents who love their children manage to stay calm at all times). It is a job requiring empathy, energy, organisation, understanding of the individual wants, needs and abilities of each child, and the skills to provide for these individual demands. Is this not identical to what good parents do? Just as I see good and ‘challenging’ (as we say in childcare!) in my own children, so too I have seen the good and not so good in the children I have cared for over more than a decade. I have found reason to like every one of those children and yes, reason to love many of them. Every decent childcare worker in the country could say the same. Please do not pass comment without knowledge of what we do and how we feel.

+1 on all of that Jenni

14m

Could agree more joseph spot on an remember the hse knew from a previous check that things were not to standard an didn do there job so they to should be charged too new wrks should b brought in cos there a f…k up an I think the hse need a bit of trainin again cos they havin a clue f..k.n jokes

Apparently they are introducing CCTV with parental access. Realistically though, if parents are leaving their children in a crèche they’re working all day, hardly have the time to sit examining CCTV. It’s a start though to be fair. I recorded it and I’m afraid to watch it

some parents will be watching it and thats all u need, it will stop it happening and parents will be able to go directly to the guards if the abuse is seen. it also will protect good workers as bad ones will be caught out.

HD Cctv needs to be linked to an app with coded access so parents can view during the day from their smart phones/P. C’S.

Fantastic idea, can check in any time.

Were the management of that Links crèche, or the Links chain in general, viewing that CCTV? Why did it take RTÉ to expose the disgusting way the children were being treated?

Cocoon Childcare creches have a parental access cctv program. It can be accessed just by going online to the creche website and inputting the code given to you by the creche and you can watch what your child is doing at any given time of the day. It’s a fantastic system and very popular with parents as far as I’ve heard.

They wouldn’t behave like this if they were being watched.

I agree totally with you warren why should they be protected in my opinion if you bring children into the world you should be looking after them some children are spending 50 hours a week in crèches :(

Oisin, they didn’t name the workers who were seen abusing the children.

Mission impossible, what are you talking about? iBob101 said WEBCAMS, nothing about CCTV which is completely different and what you are talking about.

People are talking about putting live video cameras into rooms with young children and then broadcasting that feed on the internet – this is what iBob101 is suggesting. You telling me that the links and passwords won’t make it onto the internet? It’s not hysteria and certainly not the same as bringing your child to the shopping centre where you can look after them yourself.

I’m no over anxious parent but even I know that there are a lot of sick people in this world.

Agree as then all parents would have to be vetted as they could be watching someone else’s child. Cameras are a tricky one

Very tricky, I don’t know if people know how vulnerable to abouse this sort of system would be.

I’m truly shocked at the amount of people on this forum suggesting that live feeds be broadcast of children on the internet. I’d suggest more HSE visits to creches and stricter vetting of staff before I’d want that.

and publish the reports (quarterly) .. these “business” will always look for a high profit low cost model and need financial fear of the reports in full published every quarter (Not to sit on them for years and simply warn the management with no fear of losing grants or customers to owners)

The fact that they can fail inspections and still get thousands in grants (on top of the massive fees parents are paying) is a major failing of the HSE

The cameras thing would be fairly acheivable. You can put ridiculous levels of security between a user and a server fairly easily.

Client-authenticated TLS handshakes, where a unique file has to be on the computer and the server is one.
An IP whitelist, where only specified loactions can connect, is another.

That said, I don’t think it’s a practical or egalitarian solution. It might be more pratical to allocate resources to the HSE to monitor services more comprehensively.

Day-v Fatter-tea. These things can be done. But let’s face it, some of these places are working on a tight budget as it is. There’s a big cost involved in implementing and as importantly maintaining a system like that, kids join and leave creches throughout the year etc. Most creches would install the cheapest system they could if this were forced up on them. Even then it’s just regulation by parents looking at a video feed which is not the way to go imo. Government regulation and more spot checks by HSE staff would be much more beneficial imo.

thats the excuse that allows whats happening to happen,i dont know enough about cctv security but there must be someway of doing it right but i promise u its the only way to protect those kids and must be done

Francis, I’ve seen both community run and private run creches,
If anything the standard of staff was far far better in the private, they also took issues far more seriously then the community run creche.

I can’t see the “greasy till, adding their halfpence to their pence” brigade going for that.

Thank you Barry for generalising every community childcare worker in Ireland. I’m glad to see all “your years” of experience in the childcare sector has shown that money dictates the standard of care for children.

Couple of points that may be of interest in this discussion. I have a friend who works in a community creche and after 10 years she is only on 10 euro an hour. The average there is around 9 euro. This is just over the minimum wage and she is properly qualified. Pay peanuts get monkeys to a great extent. Pay also feeds into how appreciated people feel in their work and this is reciprocated in the way they do their job. This does not excuse the behavior of the creche workers on Prime TIme. The basic problem there was attitude and lack of supervision. The workers there showed a distinct lack of affinity with the children they were entrusted to mind. Again though here we get back to the money angle. As a community creche it makes no profit and charges roughly 150 weekly per child. The ratio to children are always correct and they are inspected more often than the private creches. So if the private creches are to make a profit they need to charge more than this and skimp on the ratio, food quality or any other overhead to just turn over and this is what was evident in the PT programme. More checks will do little and already I believe when they are inspected they even go so far as to measure the distance between the cots with a measuring tape. This is not what we should be primarily checking but once you start to bring in regulation these are the sort of things people focus on rather than face the tougher and more legally difficult question of whether or not the people working there are capable and the sort of person you would want to look after your child. I know at that particular creche parents can buzz the door and go into the classrooms unassisted at anytime so they can see how things are for themselves. This step alone would be a leap forward and keep everyone working there in step as they know they can always be observed.

James, the problem is very clear. People are not ignoring the financial aspect to it. The point is still un-equivocal though. This is more than an isolated set of incidents and is endemic… not that every individual is like these people of course. Far from it.

But the problem is. These things are far to widespread and the reasons are more than one and you point is in there. That is the why. But the why doesn’t take from the reality of bullying of children by adults and general mistreatment.

The camera idea is a good one and would guard people from there worse side. How ever much that side is a part of them, this should stop them. The people in the clips, as per checks, should not be allowed in this work.

But don’t lose focus of the reality of what we all saw. Let’s not jump to cutbacks etc. just yet. This is serious.

I agree alan nothing like that is 100% safe, but a way around it could be having the cctv in each room on record and the perents able to request copies of the tapes of any day at any time

@Alan Burke – I agree completely. We looked at a creche recently that was expensive. One of their big selling points was that they had a webcam in the baby and wobbler rooms but that put me off the place straight away. I know that these things are hackable. Also, parents put their children into a professional creche for peace of mind. They shouldn’t have to keep logging in from work to ensure that their kids are being treated properly.

@John Johnson – that would become a logistical nightmare. Creches are already expensive enough and there’s no doubt that having to hire someone to be available to do this and fitting out the rooms would be passed on to the parents. Also, children are in rooms together. I would not be comfortable with another parent that I don’t know requesting and getting CCTV footage of their child that could contain video footage of my child at the same time.

Alan, secure token access was mentioned. That is a very hard nut to crack. I have setup enough of them to know.

Secure token access is not secure. Trust me.

It’s good enough for financial institutions so I doubt your average pervert could hack it.

A high level of professional competancy, properly trained and dedicated staff who at least, enjoy being with kids and management that watch what are the most invaluable things in our lives..our children. That’s what I’d expect anyway…

What an idiotic statement. Grow up troll

A.P would you care to offer suggestions as to what parents should do instead of using a crèche?

On 12€ an hour.

Maybe stay at home and do without two cars flat screen TVA holidays meals out new clothes etc.

Brilliant Simon, lets now deprive kids and families any social interaction and fun and we’ll all walk around smelling of poverty (which most people do anyway with the cost of crèche fees).

Why do people react so strongly against the idea of a parent staying at home and raising the family ?