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A FIVE-MEMBER PANEL has been appointed to oversee the running of the referendum to abolish the Seanad.
The Referendum Commission for the ballot will be chaired by Justice Elizabeth Dunne of the High Court.
The other members, who are determined by law, are Dáil clerk Kieran Coughlan, Seanad clerk Deirdre Lane, Ombudsman Emily O’Reilly, and the Comptroller and Auditor General, Seamus McCarthy.
The body is responsible for compiling an impartial, independent guide to the referendum and to distribute it to every home.
After the controversy that followed the Government’s separate information booklet for the Children’s Rights referendum – which fell foul of the Supreme Court, which deemed it to be partially biased – the Government is unlikely to pursue its own booklet.
The Commission is also responsible for encouraging the public to vote, and general awareness of the referendum being held.
The legislation to trigger the referendum was published in full yesterday, after its contents were revealed by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste on Wednesday.
If the referendum is passed, the Seanad would cease to exist after the next Dáil election – meaning the current Seanad would remain in place, but no new chamber would be elected when the current one is dissolved.
The Government plans to hold the referendum in early October, though this is dependant on the Seanad following the Dáil in passing the appropriate legislation.
The Government’s majority in the Seanad – at 30 to 28 – is far smaller than the margin it enjoys in the Dáil.
If two Fine Gael or Labour senators were to defect and vote against the legislation, or able to change the Seanad agenda so that a vote on the legislation was never called, the referendum could be delayed by 90 days.
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They’re also using this poll to delete a provision in the constitution that allows parliamentarians to petition the president to refer any legislation to a public vote. This referendum is a power grab by Kenny, Shatter, Hogan and Reilly. If you think it’s anything else they already have you fooled!
It is not currently democratic now however a simple legislative change would change that over night, giving us pan-national constituencies from which we could elect legislators that are, by the nature of the constituencies, would not be bothered by localism and parish-pump politics like TD’s are.
A unicameral parliament can work but only in a system that has an external executive or lack of a whip system , neither of which is the case in Ireland. For that reason, we in fact need a second chamber that isn’t intrinsically just another arm of the Cabinet to rubber stamp its decisions. Bunreacht na hÉireann was written such that we would have 3 branches of Government. Over the years it’s been watered down and after this referendum (if approved) we would be left with only 1. An all powerful Cabinet of 15 people with supreme power to do as they pleased with no oversight, and no one to question their decisions and cry stop.
It won’t save a penny either! The clerk of the Dáil Keiran Coughlan is on record as saying that the total running cost of the Seanad is about €10m per annum. Of that when you subtract the cost of lighting, heating, LH staff, etc. (which will remain even after abolition) and the portion that goes back to the exchequer in taxable pay this leave between €4.3m and €5m which the Governments proposed 14 Dáil committees and 4 sitting days a week will eat up in no time. In fact, I fully expect these changes to cost the taxpayer more at the end of the day.
Eoin…two things. .
1. State your political motivations please so people can put your comments into context. ..
2. Second of all…get a life man…way way to much to write about this. ..cop on..
Rubbish. Most European countries have a unicameral parliament without an powerful external executive and every democratic parliament in the world applies a whip system as that’s how governments command majorities.
As for the removal of the petition, it is a logical outcome of the removal of the Seanad as otherwise a minority in the Dail would be able to call referendums on any matter and thus effectively any government would be at the mercy of such a tactic. And can you tell me how many times this power has been used? A total of 0 times in the more than 75 years that the Constitution has been in force. So really its not much of a power grab.
What I find interesting about all of this is that people seem to want a government without the ability to govern. Of course one wonder whether the people who constantly shout about this would be doing as much shouting if their preferred party was in power. I doubt it actually.
Declan 2 things
Your a complete biased pro government muppet y
and 2
Your just a complete muppet!
@Jim Walsh
Yes Jim
but most parliments are not full of parish pump gombeen muppets
Declan- is that really the best argument you can muster?
scarr thats the best ive seen from him in a while ;)
Declan, simply clicking on the link to my profile clearly states who I am and where my affiliations lie. I have a lot to say on this as I’ve gone and researched the topic thoroughly in the process of producing this document: http://fail.3cdn.net/ce24d8c3c5c63af19e_mlbrw4qa4.PDF
I’m sorry that someone for whom the narrowing of political power onto an every decreasing number of people without checks and oversights is a concern seems to be an affont to you however quite a lot of us have more than due reason to be suspicious of this Government and their butchering of the political process to date as they rail road legislation through the Dáil without any serious debate.
Well said Eoin.
Eoin. Kindly set out details of the last parliamentary petition to the President – I must have missed it.
@weirdo – I think you’ll probably find that if you ask anybody in any country they will accuse their local politicians of narrow self-serving agendas. The idea that Ireland is somehow unique in this regard is baseless.
By the way I’m not saying that our politicians are any better either.
Still waiting, Eoin.
jim
i would have to disagree…i think ireland is quite unique
our ruling political parties are still two sides of a civil war…there is no right or no left like in most other developed countries
So having a seanad full of parish pump gombeens improves things? Two houses full of parish pump gombeens maintained by us. Great stuff.
Apologies Sheik, I had a house viewing. The quick answer is that i hasn’t been used. This is mainly in par to the undemocratic nature of the Seanad with such a make up that ensures the Government of the day have a majority. It would be highly irregular for the majority of parliamentarians in either house to react in such a many to their own Government’s legislation. The fact though that Kenny and co. wish to erase this provision is worrying. A simple amendment would be to alter the wording to exclude reference to the Seanad bu the Government have gone full hog to delete it. Ask yourself; why?
As regards the whip system, the three line whip system in Ireland is more rigid that all the democracies that surround and influence us. It is such that a TD voting against party-lines is a massive step that automatically leaves them outside the party fold with also costs them committee and speaking privileges thereby greatly affecting their ability to perform their role. No other country enforces a whip system in the same manner we do. (Think UK, US, France, Italy, New Zealand, Denmark, etc. all have to contend with “back-bench revolts”)
Also if you read the link above it shows how to set up a Seanad that is focus on national issues that can and will attract relevant experts thereby not replicating the Dáil.
Tell me this Eoin—where do you stand in relation to the FF Party that effectively used the Seanad for purely party purposes and still has quite a number of the old stooges in the current Seanad makeup.Despite their many years in office can you point to any action taken by them to reform the Seanad?
Eoin its probably in line with the EU main agenda.
Seanad reform not abolition Kenny and this government trying to stifle debate at every opportunity!
Oliver. ..before last election…people were crying out for this referendum. …. even most recent polls show that the irish people want it removed. .. let the people decide. … not the bitter tiny minority who contribute on here. ..
I wonder will Fine Gael use public funds to run a yes campaign again……lying cheating blue-shirt party that they are!
you can add tax dodging to that aswell ryan
I’m sure there’s a long list floating around the interweb….least we forget the infamous 5 point pension plan.
Weirdo
As well would usually be expressed as two words and the other two would usually suffice as a reply to your comments on this subject.
Paddy (rick mccrory) Rodgers
your grammer lesson shows the ineptitude of your arguement so tip on there and educate yourself instead of making childish comments…ive no time to be dealing with lads who substitute infantile comments for good political debate
Another 5 on the gravey train.
I bet there will a 20 member post abolition transition body… all made up of labour and FG hacks.
Ireland’s an awful KIP
Do you want the Seanad? Yes or no? And people have to appointed to oversee this? Sweet Jesus….
Reminds me of the joke:”how many party hacks does it take to change a light build bulb?”
Seanad reform not abolition Kenny and this government trying to stifle debate at every opportunity!
I think this is what magicians call misdirection.
People seem to be saying that they just want a reform of the Seanad so that the dail doesn’t have too much power. Nonsense. We have far too many representatives in the dail alone. Abolishing the Seanad would lead directly to a reform of the dail and the powers it has so don’t be fooled into voting to keep the retirement home/Seanad people
There is nothing to guarantee the reform of the Dail Niall. All the measures Kenny mentioned will not be in the constitution so neither he or any other government have to follow the provisions he out lines or has promised. This is dangerous if he wants to save money let him cut the number of TD’s to 100 from the current 166.
This smells funny.
Don’t understand the implications?
Then you vote no.
Would you trust the T.Ds with near enough complete power?
Next they be gettin rid of the presidential role, not that he does much anyway bar a few meet and greets and the odd bit of tourism for himself.
Reform is the way to go.
So vote yes to abolish, vote no to keep it & if you want to reform it vote no is what I’m hearing..
As the government have stated, it is not working properly so they will have to reform it if the referendum dictates it’s to be kept.
Thats my decision so, I want it reformed/ overhauled but they won’t give us that option so I’ll vote to keep it and they’ll have to then reform it.
You do realise that they won’t HAVE to reform it if it’s kept.
I suspect that if the public vote to retain the Seanad then all talk of reform will just fade away into the background as it has done since 1979 when we had the last referendum on it.
Jim, you do realise that the government slating the Seanad into the ground, followed by the people voting to keep it, that they would not reform it when they clearly have that option within their current power?
That would be complete stupidity wouldn’t it?
Unless their real plan is to concentrate power to the centre, by the few, like their economic council…
Very totalitarian if you ask me, disguised as democracy of course.
Commisar kenny will have a free run on things now
Ahh give it s break Leslie. ..its painful. ..your bitterness knows no boundaries
and your ignorance knows none either Declan
More jobs for the boys … If f/g got rid of their special advisors they would save more than the abolition of the senate ..
They have special advisors because they haven’t got a clue what they are doing. I wonder if their “special advisors” are the very same ones as FF had…
It’s actually scary these unelected advisors command huge salaries and have such influence … Isn’t that what we have senior civil servants for ,?
@ Steve you are probably right it won’t save money ,it will just divert it somewhere else
I’d like to know Micheal D Higgins view on this, he’s spoken a lot about democracy but will gormless gag him..
Has Enda changed his name…..Idi Amin comes to mind just telling TDs what they have to do in aboloshing the Seanad. Dictator clear off we dont need you.
Yes! Abolish the Home for Failed TDs!
You need to look at the dail for failed TDs….more of them there.
Has Enda changed his name…..Idi Amin comes to mind just telling TDs what they have to do in aboloshing the Seanad. Dictator clear off we dont need you.
This level of commentary is so annoying. Are you seriously comparing Enda Kenny for all of your dislike for him to a mass murderer who was responsible the deaths of thousands of people? Try and get some sense of proportion.
Whether you like any politician in this country they were all elected in fair and open elections and we live in an open society where you can make such inane comments freely and without fear of retribution. Comments like this are an insult to people who had to live under butchers like Idi Amin.
And finally do you even understand the concept of a referendum which is where the people get to decide what to do, which is exactly what is being proposed?
It says post a comment not a short story , anything more than four lines sounds like a politican, Boring
My advise is always vote NO , you can always go back from a NO but not from a yes.
*advice
Any indication yet of when the referendum will be? Don’t suppose there’s any hope of those of us abroad getting the vote this time around, as FG promised before the elections in 2011?
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