Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

n front of a portrait of the late Iranian revolutionary founder Ayatollah Khomeini, Iran's new president Hasan Rowhani

US want a 'diplomatic solution' to Iran's nuclear program

The West suspects Iran’s nuclear program is aimed at building nuclear weapons, but Iran insists it is for generating energy.

THE UNITED STATES said it is prepared to engage Iran directly over its disputed nuclear program after moderate cleric Hassan Rowhani was declared the country’s new president.

The White House said such engagement would be aimed at reaching a “diplomatic solution that will fully address the international community’s concerns about Iran’s nuclear program.”

Nuclear weapons

The West suspects Iran’s nuclear program is aimed at building nuclear weapons, but Iran insists it is for peaceful purposed like generating energy.

The White House said in a statement it respected the will of the Iranian people and congratulated for taking part in the election, praising “their courage in making their voices heard.”

It said the vote Friday was held amid lack of transparency, censorship of the media, the Internet and text messages, and “an intimidating security environment that limited freedom of expression and assembly.”

“However, despite these government obstacles and limitations, the Iranian people were determined to act to shape their future,” it added.

“It is our hope that the Iranian government will heed the will of the Iranian people and make responsible choices that create a better future for all Iranians,” the statement said.

“The United States remains ready to engage the Iranian government directly in order to reach a diplomatic solution that will fully address the international community’s concerns about Iran’s nuclear program,” it added.

© AFP, 2013

Read: Hassan Rowhani wins Iran presidency>

Read: 5 things to know about Iran’s presidential election happening today>

Author
View 48 comments
Close
48 Comments
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Barry Walsh
    Favourite Barry Walsh
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:00 AM

    Irish begrudgery mentality,what would be worse to the ego than a yank speaking irish when you spent 16 years at school and cant speak more than a sentence,ridicule is a culturally acceptable tool used in ireland to keep yourself from feeling inadequate

    649
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin Bell
    Favourite Kevin Bell
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:06 AM

    Nail on head.

    241
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:36 AM

    That might apply to you and your British ancestry but it’s far from everybody. Ireland was English speaking for 200 years before independence so we would never have been anything but bi-lingual. You may not care but many people do.

    249
    See 8 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute VinHeffer89
    Favourite VinHeffer89
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:38 AM

    John Michael or John Bruton? The West Brit is strong in this one.

    145
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Odran Ó Corcráin
    Favourite Odran Ó Corcráin
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:23 AM

    @Mark Kelly

    Completely false Mark, English only overtook the Irish language after the Great Famine after the combination of its massive deathtoll, mass emigration and Daniel O Connell’s “campaign” for Irish people to drop the Irish language to learn English so that we could “better ourselves” (his words not mine), and for the record, for the majority of those “200 years before independence” it was the Anglo-Irish ascendancy that used English not the average Irish person.

    159
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shane Barry
    Favourite Shane Barry
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:08 AM

    Actually the Celtic population which is still the majority all spoke irish, the second are the Normans who soon changed from speaking English to Irish, today this is over 80% of the population who have irish speaking heritage.

    91
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:46 AM

    Fair enough Odran, but prior to the mid 1800s many were partially or bi lingual particularly in the more Anglicised parts of the country. The South and West of the country was still heavily Irish speaking when a lot of Leinster was predominantly English speaking.

    42
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute SeanieRyan
    Favourite SeanieRyan
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 2:05 PM

    There is still the attitude of the beat down peasant in many people here, always trying to ape others and no confidence in themselves.

    55
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Festered Uncle
    Favourite Festered Uncle
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 5:53 PM

    Ah the Brit with small dog syndrome , nothing new here.

    24
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute An Inquiring Mind
    Favourite An Inquiring Mind
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:06 PM

    I spent 14years learning Irish in school. I failed pass irish in my leaving cert ( got an F ), but I also sat honours French and got a C. I hated irish my whole life but five years ago in my mid thirties I decided to take the plunge and enrol on one of the beginner courses in CNG. It was the best crack I had in years. Irish was an easy language to learn and in 9 months I had learned more than I had in 14 yrs of school. The difference was that there was no hang up on grammar and the whole experience was based around conversation. I was one of two Irish people in my class, the rest were made up North Americans and Europeans. I would encourage anybody who had or has any fears about returning to the torture you experienced as a child in school that they are unfounded while going through the CNG courses. I think the guy Simon that made the documentary was also in my class at CNG.

    141
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ann Glasgow
    Favourite Ann Glasgow
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:17 AM

    @ john michael…..”they are descended from English colonists???

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 8:38 AM

    It’s a national shame that after 14 years of schooling a lot of people can’t hold a 2 min conversation, that’s why people are defensive.

    396
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ciaran clarke
    Favourite ciaran clarke
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 8:42 AM

    I don’t think the teachers cared too much either.
    In the school I went to we used irish as our homework class.
    That and religion class.

    175
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 8:49 AM

    The quality of teachers in general is questionable. They rarely if ever lose their jobs no matter how poor they are. CnG focus on CONVERSATION. The most effective way to learn the language. Whole curriculum needs to be changed. It doesn’t work.

    239
    See 22 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tinker Taylor
    Favourite Tinker Taylor
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:10 AM

    Can I just say, I have nothing against the language per say but can we have emergency signage and warning signage in English first and then irish. This nonsense of Irish first on signs is potentially dangerous and is typical burocratic nonsense

    114
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:22 AM

    @John. Because if kids had a better standard of Irish, that could change in time. Typical attitude of somebody who hasn’t bothered their hole to learn a word of their national language.

    142
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:27 AM

    We are Irish, not English. It is our national language and therefore part of our identity. The reality hits home when you travel abroad and hear people talk in their native tongue. I wish I could do it.

    257
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:59 AM

    Niamh that’s propaganda with no relation to actual history. Irish is one of our national languages. Actually both Irish and English are our national Languages. In cities like Dublin, Irish was probably never widely spoken day to day at any time in its history. I can go back 5 or 6 generations in my family, all born in Northern and Eastern Ireland, and none spoke Irish routinely.

    70
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona Caomhánaigh
    Favourite Fiona Caomhánaigh
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:09 AM

    I have a seven year old son who for a year thought he was English because that is what we spoke when I explained we were irish he was asking why we don speak irish if we were irish trying to explain this was very difficult as he kept saying French people speak French English people speak English and so on

    In my opinion there should be only oral irish taught in primary and secondary school so all children can at least hold a conversation in our native language
    It would be a terrible shame if the language died altogether
    Just my opinion

    162
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute VinHeffer89
    Favourite VinHeffer89
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:28 AM

    I retract my earlier statement; this John Michael bloke even surpasses John Bruton in terms of West Britishness. Stand tall but never taller than your betters, eh J.M.?

    51
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:30 AM

    And Americans speak American, Brazilians Speak Brazilian, Canadians speak Canadian, Belgians speak Belgian,etc etc etc? All our Nobel prize winners in Literature won their prizes for writing in a foreign language? We have two native languages, same as the Belgians. If you want people to love and learn the Irish language then remove the compulsion. Stop telling them ‘you MUST learn this because it’s part of what you are’ when in most cases it clearly isn’t. I have kids one of whom speaks Irish well, wears a Fainne and hopes to get an A in Honours Irish in the Leaving cert. I have another who never really took to it and has dropped back to Pass. I’d prefer if he could drop it completely and concentrate on his German, which he’s better at. He’ll never need Irish, hwas born in England so he gets an exemption for most colleges in any case. Why is he being forced to learn it (and he is being forced to learn it).? Because you say so! He’ll likely come out of school absolutely hating the language, another victory for Irish Language advocates?

    84
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:39 AM

    Joe. I didn’t say anything. Come down from there. I didn’t design the Irish Education system. Therefore I am not the reason your children have to study Irish. It’s no skin off my nose if Irish is compulsory or not. I don’t teach Irish, something you already know from my previous comments. I simply didn’t agree with your arguments, which I’m entitled to do.

    73
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sarah Clifford
    Favourite Sarah Clifford
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:42 AM

    He is being forced to because of the gaelgor nazis. If I had a choice in school I would have learned something useful too instead of irish. I wish for my daughters sake that it was optional and not rammed down her neck.

    55
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:54 AM

    Come down from where? Quote ‘we are Irish, not English it’s our national language and therefore part of our national identity’. You took it upon yourself to speak for all of us. An English teacher should recognise a rhetorical device, particularly when their bluff is called! I’m simply pointing out that it’s actually not part of most Irish people’s national identity and that’s probably Ok.

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:03 AM

    Joe, read your comment again, have a look at how you addressed me in it. You asked why your child has to learn Irish, and your answer I quote “you said so”. The original question I answered was a general question, rhetorical or not, which I gave a general response to. I was not speaking for everyone.

    49
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:26 AM

    You spoke as the voice of the Irish people but as one as one in favour of compulsion of Irish teaching. A rhetorical device. The reason why we continue to make Irish compulsory is primarily because of influence of people who share your opinion. You have adopted the role of speaking for them in the context of this exchange. I responded in kind, rhetorically.

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jamie Ross
    Favourite Jamie Ross
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 1:01 PM

    The first thing an occupation does to destroy a people is to eliminate their culture, their language, their food, their music. In Canada and America, this was used on the native peoples, forcing children off their lands to be educated in “Indian Schools”, beaten for any use of their native language. There was a generation, like you, who said let it die…. but the next generation realised that doing so would be to give up the heart of their culture and who they were. In Quebec and New Brunswick, people are proud to use French its and Canada is officially bilingual. For the same reasons, Irish need to keep their languages and bring it back into daily use, because they have a unique history and culture which is the equal of any of the world (My family came to Canada from Ireland,Scotland, England and France). I live here now and I am learning Irish and I really enjoy working with my friends and colleagues to bring it back into daily conversation at work. It is a pleasant surprise how many Irish are happy to know its “ok” to use the language again…

    70
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jamie Ross
    Favourite Jamie Ross
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 1:07 PM

    Canada which you mention, is officially bilingual and EVERYONE learns both languages. Better to make English optional than Irish in Ireland.

    41
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Burke
    Favourite David Burke
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 7:46 AM

    Learning Irish has nothing to do with Irish national identity…..

    That ship has sailed decades ago.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute beachcomber
    Favourite beachcomber
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:06 AM

    John I have to disagree scientist have studied bi lingual children and their learning abilities far exceed those of non bi lingual. There is benefits for a child’s learning in speaking two languages added with those cultural benifits.

    45
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tinker Taylor
    Favourite Tinker Taylor
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:09 AM

    Ok a bit of science folks. It has been proved that in an emergency when panicked, people will look for emergency signage. They will read the first two lines of a sign and if it’s in a foreign language…will turn away missing the bit in their native tongue. I think people’s safety is more important than salving the brow of the Irish lobby.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Phil Erup
    Favourite Phil Erup
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:19 AM

    You’re not too good at the latin either !

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Damian O'Brien
    Favourite Damian O'Brien
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:41 AM

    Joe, you hit the nail on the head.

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Catherine Mill
    Favourite Catherine Mill
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 4:31 PM

    Yes, it was always about destroying the Irish culture like native Americans . Names changed, heads shaved, etc

    How many of us have our real names? I know my Father’s name was forcible changed to an English version- but that is not the same name nor does it carry the same energy signature.

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Marcus Ebersol
    Favourite Marcus Ebersol
    Report
    Jun 22nd 2016, 8:48 PM

    It is normal for big countries of colonial origin to unificate languages. Brazil for an example, where the portuguese is the only official language, has around 274 indigenous languages which are completely unintelligible. There also regions where german, italian, polish, french, spanish, russian and another 200 african languages are spoken. So it makes perfect sense to use a single language, specially when the country was founded as a colony, as for Canada, USA, etc. Ireland has a different history, a smaller area and a very limited number of native dialects, not to mention it was conquered, not colonized. So there was no point in speaking English after the independence. But nationalism is a problem for every country, some have too little, some have way too much.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Marcus Ebersol
    Favourite Marcus Ebersol
    Report
    Jun 22nd 2016, 9:04 PM

    It is normal for big countries to unificate languages, specially when they were founded as colonies. Brazil for an example, a huge country where the portuguese is the official language, has around 274 indigenous languages that are completely unintelligible. There are also regions where German, Italian, French, Spanish, Polish, Russian and another 200 african languages are still spoken. So it makes perfect sense to use one single foreign language so the society can interact, specially when the country was born as a colony, as well as Canada, USA, etc. Ireland has a different history, a smaller area and a very limited number of native dialects (all of them being mutually intelligible), not to mention it wasn’t colonized, it was conquered. But the nationalism is always a greater issue in European countries, or we have way too little, or way too much.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute VinHeffer89
    Favourite VinHeffer89
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 8:39 AM

    Just shows how closed-minded and ignorant some of us are. To ridicule people for taking an interest in our culture is beyond pathetic.

    267
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cóilín O'Toole
    Favourite Cóilín O'Toole
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:06 AM

    Just wait until the haters wake up and find this thread.

    83
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Itsthe Law
    Favourite Itsthe Law
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:24 AM

    Well if it was in Irish “the haters” would never find it

    44
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Conor Conneally
    Favourite Conor Conneally
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 8:37 AM

    The way we teach Irish is totally broken. Until we change language education here Irish will always be a half dead language with no real practical application.

    212
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ronan
    Favourite ronan
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:02 AM

    Any suggestions then?
    Genuinely.

    61
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute luke daly
    Favourite luke daly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:11 AM

    Move completely away from written language skills In school and focus only oral.

    There is a desperate attitude towards the language In many homes. Offer parents free Irish classed once a week…. Maybe even sweeten the deal with a hot Irish teacher and a few glasses OF wine.

    151
    See 3 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Silent Majority
    Favourite Silent Majority
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:05 AM

    Spot on luke, why are kids taught written language before spoken – no other language would be learned like this. In my primary school if we wanted to speak to teachers it had to be done as gaeilge, even though it wasn’t a gael scoil (all primary teachers have a decent level of Irish). None of us realised how good our Irish was until we got to secondary school, although our grammar and spelling still wasn’t great but the vocabularies we had unknowingly amassed meant we were streets ahead of other kids. That said, once you finish school you stop using it and quickly forget so much of it. I could still hold a broken conversation but it’s nowhere near as good as it was when I was 15.
    Hebrew was pretty much a dead language when Israel was founded too, so resurrection can be achieved (and ironically, once upon a time the IDF spoke Irish to avoid comms being intercepted by the PLO. The IRA then taught the PLO a cupla focail and that came to an end!)

    64
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shane Barry
    Favourite Shane Barry
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:14 AM

    Irish is taught like English, we learn poems and stories. German is taught properly like beginning with simple words and sentences and grammer and slowly building up. In my leaving cert I learnt poems off by heart without even knowing what they meant. I could speak 5 times more German than Irish even though I learnt German for 4 years and irish for 10.

    89
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mr Phil Officer
    Favourite Mr Phil Officer
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:38 AM

    Streamline the language in the same way that happened with Chinese.

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 8:52 AM

    There is a massive opportunity cost in the way we are teaching Irish. We’re basically continuing to do what we have for the last 50 years. We spend more time in our teacher training colleges getting trainee teachers up to speed in Irish than in any other subject, spending multiples of time on it rather than science or maths. We have our students spend a huge proportion of their time in school ‘doing’ it. I don’t say ‘learning’ it as the great majority of students don’t. The problem with this is that time spent ineffectively teaching Irish to the uninterested is time that can’t be spent teaching something or give them life skills that might improve their chances of a job (outside an artificially cosseted Irish speaking sector).
    We need to make a decision on what to do about it. If we do want to preserve it outside an academic context then we need to radically change how we teach it and what role we give it everyday life. Other than that we need to change emphasis. Allow those who want to use and speak the language to do so but drop it as a compulsory subject beyond primary school and give kids the opportunity to take on a different international language instead.

    70
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:32 AM

    Joe, you could make that argument for many subjects in school. I studied German, Accounting, Economics and Art for my Leaving Cert. I studied English in college and never used any of those subjects ever again once I left school. I never used Maths either. Even if I chose different subject choices I wouldn’t have used any of them either. That’s the reality of the education system.

    47
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:54 AM

    Yes, but most those subjects were optional. You use maths and English all the time in your daily life, you can’t get by without it. Students in Ireland are not given the option of whether they want to learn Irish. It’s compulsory and a requirement for those who wish to attend NUI no matter what subject you wish to study. It is basically preservation of the language by compulsion and blackmail. No wonder lots of people resent the hell out of it.

    46
    See 13 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:03 AM

    Joe. I can safely say I didn’t need Leaving Cert Maths for everyday life. When do you use theorems for example. I was able to add up the price of things and work out cost of things when I left primary school. I was making the point that whether subjects are optional or compulsory the result is in fact the same. Why not make it optional to remove the seventh subject not required to sit the Leaving Cert to allow for what you suggested. My point is why should Irish be the subject that is removed. The Leaving Cert now has a 40% oral component. It’s the negative attitude towards the subject that is not helping. I studied Irish in first year in college. I was reasonable. I did well in the Leaving Cert but because I was not fully fluent like people from the Gaeltacht my lecturers didn’t want to know me in tutorials and I dropped it in second year. In my opinion the lecturers should have been helping the likes of me to converse and not spend so much time conversing with those already fluent and then there might be more competent speakers out there.

    46
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:08 AM

    It’s compulsion should be removed as lack of Irish would not be a limitation for the great majority of people in living their lives and there are very many people who the time used in learning Irish may be better used doing something else. In 2014 if you’re not reasonably fluent in English it screws up your life chances and there are multiple career options you can’t take, same with maths. If you can’t speak Irish the only career options you can’t take are those where the Irish state has decided you can’t for discriminatory purposes.

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:18 AM

    Joe, who comes out of school not fluent in English? The aim of English at second level is not to teach the mechanics of the language. It is to teach literature and encourage students to have an appreciation of literature. But anyone who has left school and not gone on to study English or the arts could argue the point when did they ever use it? Who uses Shakespeare and poetry in everyday conversation? And I say this as an English teacher. Students in the system who don’t have English as a first language are given the support they are needed outside of mainstream classes. And in this day and age there aren’t many as most foreign nationals are now living here for many years before they enter second level education and are therefore already competent in the language.

    34
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niall o' Sullivan
    Favourite Niall o' Sullivan
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:27 AM

    The abject fear that shoots across the face of some gaelgoiri when one suggests it should be optional, says it all imo. So terrified are they of losing their grip and allowing teenagers and young adults a basic choice of making up their own minds.

    32
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:42 AM

    Niamh. I meet Irish people all the time who are not fluent in English. Who struggle to get their meaning across. Furthermore, where I work in a South inner city Dublin, 30% of the population were not born in Ireland. Many do not speak English at home. Their kids, born in Ireland, are forced to learn Irish. A language they NEVER get exposed to outside school and is of absolutely no relevance to them. You are trying to create a relevance and have been since the foundation of the state using compulsion. It simply doesn’t work.
    Einstein’s definition of insanity. Repeating the same action and expecting a different result

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sarah Clifford
    Favourite Sarah Clifford
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:46 AM

    We are more likely going to use home economics than irish but thats an optional subject niamh. Maths is a requirement for every profession. Your argument dosent stand up.

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:50 AM

    Yes Joe, and as I already said, they won’t become fluent as you suggest by going to English classes because that is not the aim of English in second level. So your argument does not stand.

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:59 AM

    Sarah. I was making the point that I didn’t need Maths outside of school. And I am sorry to say that Maths is not a requirement for every profession. I was not speaking for everyone. The point I was making was that every person who goes thought the Irish Education system will at some point study a subject they will not require once they leave school. And I said Economics, not Home Economics.

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:03 AM

    Brilliant you agree. People won’t become fluent by Irish lessons, they just generate resentment. We need to stop trying to force people to learn it sitting in classrooms and try making them want to. At the moment our kids are getting 10-15% less educational time because of the compulsion to teach Irish (and religion). Do we really think that they actually need any further handicaps in the global marketplace?

    25
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Favourite Niamh Ní Dhonnchú
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:08 AM

    I don’t agree Joe. Don’t put words in my mouth. I was speaking about English classes, not Irish classes. And as I already pointed out, there is an oral component both at junior and leaving cert level. There is no oral component in English because as I have said twice already the aim is not to make people competent in the English language in English classes.

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:13 AM

    So compulsory Irish classes do work? With only 2% of the population using it as a primary language I beg to differ. Let’s try something different.

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob Mac Giollarnáth
    Favourite Rob Mac Giollarnáth
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 12:26 PM

    Aontaím le Joe a Niamh faraor, níl mórán pointe brú a chur ar dhaoine Gaeilge a fhoghlaim go háirithe sa meanscoil. Bheadh sé i bhfad níos fearr aird a thabhairt dos na daltaí a bhfuil suim acu sa teanga seachas ag iarraidh aird a thabhairt do dhaltaí nach bhfuil suim dá laghad nó meas madra acu i leith na teanga. Ach é sin a rá níl aon ghá a bheith buartha faoi sin, dá gcuirfeá polasaí nua i bhfeidhm gach seans go mbeadh gaeilge líofa ag 25% (nó níos mó) de dhaltaí agus bheadh sé sin níos fearr ná an scéal reatha atá againn. Muna n-oibríonn polasaí le 90 bliain ba chóir athsmaoineamh a dhéanamh ar an bpolasaí.

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bjorg Neverdal
    Favourite Bjorg Neverdal
    Report
    Jul 24th 2014, 9:39 AM

    Thanks, Niamh and Joe, for your interesting discussion here, – and especially the quality of your English language. Few contributors show such a command of their ?native (:-) language.

    As a foreign language teacher (Norwegian) I have also greatly enjoyed reading your (relatively balanced) comments on the learning/teaching of Irish in Irish schools, – especially thoughts on HOW Irish (and any foreign language, I might add) should be taught. I agree that focusing on grammar is not the best approach. Oral/practical activities will certainly motivate further learning.

    Personally, I admire the sound of Irish (and hate the spelling of it). As a foreigner I am not entitled to an opinion on which part Irish should play in your society. Still, anybody interested in the language should feel free to study Irish without being ridiculed.
    Knowing the genuine friendliness of the Irish, I should think they would appreciate any attempt to learn it; at least my friends in Ireland do.
    Then again, most of them live in the Gaeltacht areas (around Galway) and are proud of being bilingual from the very start.
    I know the situation in, say, Dublin, is very different (having met student groups, and teachers there) as learning Irish is compulsory, not optional. Taking my own student group to CNG in Dublin meant, however, a great experience to me/them, one that they will never forget.

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Pickart Solny
    Favourite Pickart Solny
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 12:03 PM

    Everybody has the ability to speak several languages. If you want to learn how to speak Irish then do something about it. Stop blaming others for your inability to speak Irish. It is not the fault of some school, it is not the fault of the British, It is not the fault of fanatics, it is your fault and your fault alone.

    64
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paudi Onail
    Favourite Paudi Onail
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 2:12 PM

    it works both ways, i find quite a lot of ridicule comes from foreigners on how our country works, how our houses are built… yea i’m sure every house built abroad is rock solid. if you’re not happy, then leave and take your complaints with you.

    don’t give it if you can’t take it.

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute KentuckyWindage
    Favourite KentuckyWindage
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:05 AM

    Answer to headline: because some Irish people are clowns.

    63
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kárl
    Favourite Kárl
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:04 AM

    For the first 4 years in school, teach all subjects through the Irish language and make Irish conversational only for those years. Kids will pick it up at that younger age without any negative preconceptions about the language. Incidentally, every time RTE has somebody speaking Irish, it always seems to be spoken with a very strong Kerry or Donegal accent. This can be off putting for people in the rest of the country. It has that “Peig” effect.

    60
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:19 AM

    Agree with most of this. As much as I can’t stand him, RTE needs more young people like Eoghan McDermott and less dinosaurs from the Gaeltachtaí. Also, great idea about 4 years of everything through Irish but the standard of Irish amongst teachers would have to improve a lot too.

    40
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thomas Maher
    Favourite Thomas Maher
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:41 AM

    Karl, bloody Peig even the name makes my stomach churn and blood pressure start to rise. What the hell was that ever doing as part of the leaving cert. Not to to mention the tham thing being presented as some literal master piece.
    Tallk about putting people off learning something.
    I believe its gone now. Probably replaced with some other irrelevant boring Crap.

    33
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sarah Clifford
    Favourite Sarah Clifford
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:50 AM

    Good idwa karl. Force it on kids and parents whether they like it or not. That wins the prize for the most dumb idea

    24
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joe Harbison
    Favourite Joe Harbison
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:18 AM

    Karl, give me a good coherent reason why I should impose a handicap on my kids like that. We don’t speak Irish at home. Every source of information they get, 99% of the TV channels they hear, almost all the pop songs. We’d basically be doing the same as teaching our kids through Latin. Compulsion and teaching through the abstract is just simply not going to work.

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Zoë Ní Cholmáin
    Favourite Zoë Ní Cholmáin
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:30 AM

    Anyone I know who is a fluent Irish speaker has a great aptitude for other European languages. If Irish was taught properly in schools the potential for picking up other languages would be higher. As it was we were made learn off verbs and mostly conversed through English and I couldn’t hold a conversation after 12 years of an ‘Irish’ education.

    59
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Stewart
    Favourite John Stewart
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:59 AM

    I think it’s fantastic that people from other countries want to learn our language, maybe some of the people are complaining out of jealousy and shame.

    58
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niall o' Sullivan
    Favourite Niall o' Sullivan
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:19 AM

    What’s fantastic is they choose to do it voluntarily, and can do it voluntarily. That’s the difference. Compulsion.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute skeyes
    Favourite skeyes
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:12 AM

    Irish is like any other language, use it or lose it & that’s the problem…we don’t use it! Anybody who uses it in their workplace eg.teachers/government departments continues to have a cúpla focail & that’s about it. I love speaking irish when abroad, it’s like having your own secret language!

    58
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob O'Brien
    Favourite Rob O'Brien
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:43 AM

    Make all primary schools into gael schoils, bilingual society in a generation

    57
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:54 AM

    Would you ideal if we had capable teachers!

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:59 AM

    Be!

    8
    See 3 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob O'Brien
    Favourite Rob O'Brien
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:08 AM

    well gael shoils have managed to find some, im sure it could be done with proper effort and application, of course this is ireland…

    24
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Burke
    Favourite David Burke
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 7:55 AM

    For what reason? The sneering idea that speaking Irish makes you more Irish is part of the resentment of the language. Cultural identities change and Irish isn’t something people care about.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob O'Brien
    Favourite Rob O'Brien
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 12:22 PM

    I don’t recall sneering at anyone, or implying non gaelgoirs are less irish, can’t speak it myself, was just offering a possible solution to the failed system we have

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thady Quirk
    Favourite Thady Quirk
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:18 AM

    There is nothing baffling about the fact that we don’t speak Irish together – it may be our national language, but it’s not our native language; much in the same way as we don’t go around speaking school-level French to each other. It would be absurd.
    No one can accuse us of not trying, we all had to go through the school system, and some of us got quite good at it. Some of us liked it. And then, the minute we left the classroom, it had zero practical application anywhere. The fact that we don’t mawkishly insist on forcing it after that, as if it defined us, is not shameful – it’s just sincere.

    50
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute IrishGravyTrain
    Favourite IrishGravyTrain
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:27 AM

    Think it comes down to the parents ( and i include myself in this). Basically it is the attitude we have towards the language. We don’t care about it enough to spend time encouraging our children to learn it. Its just not important. Children are well capable to start learning 2 languages when they reach the age of 18 months.

    49
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niall o' Sullivan
    Favourite Niall o' Sullivan
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:17 AM

    Junior infant classes largely in Irish would help he suggests? Get them young, eh? Well, no. Keep your arts and craft hobby shop language where it belongs.

    36
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Expert
    Favourite Expert
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 12:24 PM

    I’ve often heard it said that if you banned it, then it’d flourish and I think there’s a good point there.

    An awful lot of the problem is kids are being forced to learn it and teachers forced to teach it. You just end up with a lot of bad teachers and a lot of students who can’t be bothered.

    The idea of free classes for parents is a great one. I’d be up for it.

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank
    Favourite Frank
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:01 AM

    With all these automated on line language translators available… who needs to learn a language.

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Kelly
    Favourite Mark Kelly
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 9:54 AM

    I wouldn’t worry about it if I was you, Frank. You’re still struggling with English.

    36
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Ward
    Favourite John Ward
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:21 AM

    @Mark Kelly:
    If I WERE you.
    Who’s struggling?!

    5
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute limlom
    Favourite limlom
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 3:46 PM

    John, in English both forms of the second conditional are acceptable. The subjunctive form with ‘were’ is more formal and more likely in writing, but only a priggish prescriptive grammarian would correct perfectly good English in which the meaning is clearly expressed.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Marjorie Magee
    Favourite Marjorie Magee
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 10:22 AM

    I remember ,when coming up to my Leaving Cert in the ’60′s , being terrified I would fail lrish and not be able to go to university. Being told I only had the one go at it didn’t help either !

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute deerhounddog
    Favourite deerhounddog
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:38 AM

    They would be better off learning hurling or Russian. They are not obsolete .

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute FlopFlipU
    Favourite FlopFlipU
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:20 AM

    If the majority of the people wanted to speak Irish ,they could do it ,simple ,they don’t want to ,

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Patrick J. O'Rourke
    Favourite Patrick J. O'Rourke
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:28 AM

    It might just turn out that in a hundred years time John Michael’s grandchildren are being told in Chinese that there’s no point in them learning a dead language like English. Here’s hoping.

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Petes Tuppence
    Favourite Petes Tuppence
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 8:34 AM

    Irish was taught badly at school… I didn’t get it them despite my efforts… I was even told that I would never speak another language because my kruisje was so bad. . Now I speak Dutch fluently as well as some French, Swedish and German… let kids learn a language they can use not a language that Ireland itself through its politicians and bad teachers have killed off… consign it to history. ..

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dónal Ó Catháin
    Favourite Dónal Ó Catháin
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 12:47 PM

    There is a serious problem with the way Irish is taught and the government needs to change it. This is a 42-minute documentary on the matter (In Irish only) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXDcnbdsDl0

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Winston Teardrops
    Favourite Winston Teardrops
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:17 AM

    Cothrom na féinne dóibh. Fair play to them.

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Brian McGuinness
    Favourite Brian McGuinness
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 1:41 PM

    There’s a great coffee shop in Naas, Alices, where you can go and talk Irish to the staff and customers especially on a Saturday morning. It’s great fun, even if you’re very limited in your retention from school, you will leave everytime with some new words or remembering something you learned years ago but had forgotten.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Catherine Mill
    Favourite Catherine Mill
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 4:46 PM

    http://ansionnachfionn.com/2013/03/13/arrested-for-speaking-irish-welcome-to-anglo-ireland/
    “Among the more notable incidents was the arrest by an Garda Síochána in Dublin of a young man who replied in Irish to questions put to him in English by the Gardaí.
    Though completely innocent of any crime, and later released without charge, he was taken in handcuffs to a Garda station and held in custody until an Irish-speaking Garda could be found to interview him.
    Again, as the Language Commissioner makes clear, this man, a citizen of Ireland, was completely innocent of any offence and was detained in custody because he chose to speak in Irish when questioned; as is his legal right under the Constitution of Ireland.”

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute von
    Favourite von
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 8:47 AM

    I hated Irish in school, and now I would to learn it.
    We had a useless teacher who was always dreaming and there were three girls who were very brainy so when they finished their lesson we turned the page, I know one or two girls the teacher ignored and still can’t read or write.

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute von
    Favourite von
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 8:50 AM

    Also bravo to the people from other Countries who want to learn OUR language, I think it’s compliment to us.

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob Mac Giollarnáth
    Favourite Rob Mac Giollarnáth
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 12:16 PM

    Far easier for Irish people to mock the efforts of others than to deal with maybe their own more serious issues of identity, culture, history etc. Perhaps also the ‘forced’ nature of Irish learning in schools does the language more of a disservice than anything else. I would support the language but make it optional in secondary school and concentrate resources on the willing. Perhaps also have a gaelic culture subject in schools looking at music, history of gaelic culture etc. I’ve met Japanese tourists on Irish courses in Kerry and Donegal who are entranced by the antiquity and richness of the language. Rather than have a polarised debate we should as a nation be able to accommodate Irish speakers and English speakers alike. Some Irish people seem to think it has to be one language only which is kind of a bizarre attitude given that in many countries people speak or have a knowledge of 2/3 languages. Variety etc.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Natália Danzmann
    Favourite Natália Danzmann
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 9:43 PM

    Tá suim ag muintir na Bhrasaíle chomh maith. Ní hea go bhfuil gach ‘cosplayer’ sa phictiúr ag foghlaim na Gaeilge go fiú, ach tá siad ag tacú leis an teanga gan amhras :) Mise fosta.
    Shíl mé go mbeadh sé suimiúil an nasc a roinnt anseo.
    http://irlandesaaa.deviantart.com/art/Gaeilgeoir-Project-Anime-Friends-2014-04-469730874

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Catherine Mill
    Favourite Catherine Mill
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 5:03 PM

    We’ll have none of that Irish shite here! You’re Irish! So speak English!
    http://ansionnachfionn.com/2014/02/28/medieval-discrimination-in-a-modern-ireland/

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute limlom
    Favourite limlom
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 2:58 PM

    Is deacair dul amach ar an beagintinneach agus caolaigeanta ag cuid mhór daoine !

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bambi Keeling
    Favourite Bambi Keeling
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 12:31 PM

    When I have seen Irish used around Dublin, I’ve seen it used in a very snobby way.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Anton de Buitlear
    Favourite Anton de Buitlear
    Report
    Jul 20th 2014, 11:52 AM

    We were denied or native language, yes ….. no ……

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sheila Hogg
    Favourite Sheila Hogg
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 5:36 PM

    I no longer share my language holiday experiences on a transatlantic flight to or from Ireland as I would get a long rambling whine about the hated Irish language. I once had a child react stupefyingly ” Ye spend a whole holiday taking an Irish class?!” There’s the disbelief and then self-flagellation. Oh I could never speak it, like, they beat it into ya. I wish I could, ye know?

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sheila Hogg
    Favourite Sheila Hogg
    Report
    Jul 21st 2014, 7:02 PM

    Foreign language instruction has been very slow to change, especially in education systems that favored rote learning, championing grammar and memorization as the main means. All for the almighty exams, you might say. The latest research favors the conversational approach to learning the language that CNG promotes. It works. The research that is the most compelling comes from second-language teaching TSL such as in North American. What doesn’t work, doesn’t continue. Don’t listen to the begrudgers.

    1
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds