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English food writer, journalist and broadcaster, Nigella Lawson (AP Photo/Lionel Cironneau)

Column No behaviour that degrades women can be dismissed as ‘just a domestic’

Putting the abuser back in the picture is what we should strive towards, says Margaret Martin, who says society focuses attention and responsibility on the victims of domestic violence rather than the perpetrators.

IN ADDITION TO the shocking sight of a woman with a man’s hand around her throat and fear in her eyes, another striking aspect of the photographs used in the media coverage in recent days of Charles Saatchi and Nigella Lawson case is that the most widely used image has cut him out and zoomed in on her face and neck.  The only part of Saatchi visible is his hand around her throat.

This reflects how society reacts to domestic violence as we tend to focus attention and responsibility on the woman and remove the abuser from the picture.

Domestic violence can impact on women from all walks of life

Domestic violence is a crime that affects one in five women in Ireland at some point her life.  It is a common crime but one that is very often minimised, hidden and ignored.  Domestic violence has no boundaries and women from all walks of life are abused by those closest to them – their current or former husbands, partners and boyfriends.  Last week, Women’s Aid launched our Annual Report where we highlighted the 16,200 disclosures of domestic violence against women and 3,230 reports of direct child abuse made to our services in 2012.

Domestic violence includes physical assault, emotional cruelty, verbal abuse, financial abuse, rape, and sexual assault.  Strangulation is a common form of physical abuse disclosed by callers to our National Freephone Helpline and bare hands remain the most common weapon used by perpetrators of abuse.  Research from the US shows that 54 per cent of women surveyed in a woman’s refuge who said that they had experienced strangulation had done so more than once and 70 per cent of women believed they would die as a result.

Strangulation is a very serious act and it only takes 10 seconds of pressure applied to a person’s neck before the person loses consciousness.  A hold of 50 seconds or more can be fatal.  No behaviour which so degrades and violates women and children can be dismissed as ‘just a domestic’. The impact of domestic violence is significant, long-term and wide ranging.

It is about control

Domestic violence is a deliberate behaviour rather than the consequence of stress, individual pathology, substance use or a ‘dysfunctional’ relationship. Domestic violence is about gaining control, not losing it and responsibility for the abuse and violence is the perpetrator’s alone. However, a common reaction to women experiencing domestic violence is to focus on her actions and her behaviour.  We analyse and judge her choices.  Unhelpful speculation can include suggestions that her actions provoked the abuse and that her own presumed “self-esteem issues” makes her choose a relationship with a violent man.

This victim blaming mentality plays into the perpetrator’s hands as it reinforces what he has been telling her all along.  That it something about her, not him, that has caused the abuse and that it is her fault for not leaving the relationship.  This belief system makes it more difficult for women and children to get help and removes responsibility from the abuser.

The most common question levelled at women affected by domestic violence is why don’t you just leave? Many women stay with abusive men because it is extremely difficult for them to leave. No one enjoys being beaten, threatened and humiliated in their own homes.  Understanding emotional abuse and its impact on women is vital to appreciating the complexities of domestic violence.  We hear from women who thought that it could never happen to them and many women are reduced to shells of their former selves by an on-going and unrelenting campaign of emotional abuse designed to leave them dependent on their abuser, isolated from family and friends and blaming themselves for the abuse.

Grooming their partners

The tactics of abuse can be very subtle and difficult to recognise. Some tactics of abuse may seem insignificant in isolation but abusive men will quite often groom their partners to facilitate their controlling and abusive behaviour.

As a national charity that has been supporting women for nearly 40 years, we know that leaving an abusive relationship is fraught with difficulty.  Whilst the risk of staying may be very high, simply leaving the relationship does not guarantee that the violence will stop. In fact, the period during which a woman is planning or making her exit, is often the most dangerous time for her and her children. Many women are frightened of the abuser, and with good reason. It’s common for perpetrators to threaten to harm or even kill their partners or children if she leaves.

Last year, many women also told us that they had received death threats from their partners and we know that since 1996 190 women have been murdered in Ireland and in 54 per cent of the resolved cases the woman was killed by their partner or ex-partner.

The recession has made it more difficult for women

In addition to this, the ability of some women to escape domestic violence is being hampered by the recession. Women fear increased impoverishment, losing their home and the effect of poverty on their children. Women, who do try to leave, often find it harder or impossible to access vital supports such as housing, refuge, welfare and legal representation.

For those outside the relationship, whether known to the woman or not, witnessing a public display of domestic violence is very disturbing and it can often put people in a difficult situation as they may be conditioned into thinking that it is a private affair. But domestic violence is not private and should be treated as seriously as any other crime.  If someone overhears an incident or sees a violent attack on someone they should ring the police and/or bring it to the attention to someone in authority in the locality – for example, the security guard in the shopping centre or at the apartment block, or the maitre’d in the restaurant.  The abuse of any human being by another is everyone’s business and the safety of the victim is paramount.

Women’s Aid believes that it is vital that good and effective supports are available to women when they begin to address their situation. These include good legal protection, the practical and emotional support of their family and friends, safe housing and support of organisations like Women’s Aid.

Despite the harrowing details behind each story of domestic violence, help is available.

Margaret Martin is the director of Women’s Aid. It is the only free, national, domestic violence helpline with specialised trained staff. Women’s Aid also offers a Dublin-based One to One Support Service and Court Accompaniment Service and also refers to local refuges and support services around the country. The Women’s Aid Helpline 1800 341 900, 10am to 10pm, 7 days a week.  The Helpline is also available for family, friends and professionals concerned about women living with domestic violence.www.womensaid.ie

Read: Charles Saatchi given police caution after grasping Nigella Lawson’s throat>

Read: Victims of stalking and domestic violence to get EU-wide protection>

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    Mute The Green Monkey
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:19 AM

    And the Russians tell us we can’t call it genocide………:

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    Mute Sergeant Yates
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:28 AM

    Who’s us @greenmonkey? – We stood by with the Brits, French and US and the rest of Europe while it happened. Great to be neural eh. I’d say Russia saved Europe embarrassment.

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    Mute Sergeant Yates
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:32 AM

    Report in last Sunday’s ‘Observer’ stated one of the survivors awoke under a mound of bodies – and saw the Soldiers exhausted from all the killing, taking a cigarette break before resuming putting the Bosniaks in a line and massacring them.

    The ‘Allies’ had forewarning of this massacre but because the serbs wanted the land and this was a pre-requisite of Peace, they basically acquiesced to them taking it knowing what would happen.

    Then we wonder why they hate us.

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    Mute tmwtbc
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:52 AM

    Spot on Sergeant Yates. As far as I can remember, the British wanted to send ground troops in but the U.S. Stalled. I could be wrong but, in any case, the inaction of the wider international community was stunning. It was car crash stuff played out before our very eyes.

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:34 AM

    I see the troll factory is up and at it this morning.

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:39 AM

    Actually Sargeant Yates, the much maligned Americans eventually went in and sorted it out while the Europeans still sat around doing nothing. People were going on holidays to nearby countries while genocide was happening in modern day Europe. Shameful.

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    Mute Jurgen Remak
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:54 AM

    Correct, Europe seemed absolutely paralyzed to act, and no one really covered themselves in glory. I clearly remember that snivelling English foregin sec Douglas Hurd defending the arms embargo in this period that prevented the Bosnians defending themselves.
    This war overall showed Europe’s unwillingness to intervene and it eventually fell to the US to get things moving. Well done to Clinton, Madeline Albright and Dick Holbrooke for helping to bring that war to an end.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:04 AM

    I remember it all vividly as the horror played out. I remember the incomprehensible news that the UN had don’t nothing. Useless as ever. I remember three young Muslim boys, best pals in life, lying dead beside each other. I remember Serbs protecting and celebrating the war criminals, many still doing so.

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:06 AM

    I’m always amazed Jurgen by how many people in Ireland are so polarised on the U.S. foreign policy. Yes it is usually self-serving (tell me a country whose isn’t), yes they get it wrong sometimes, but at least they do something and don’t just issue verbal reprimands from afar. Our own policy of neutrality is totally outdated now. I may not agree with the U.S. on everything they do but they’re a friend of Ireland and I’m grateful for that.

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    Mute Sergeant Yates
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:33 AM

    @kevin i never suggested otherwise – in relation to this one massacre the US were as culpable as anyone else – but it was the Americans (with a Clinton election campaign in mind) that did the heavy lifting to bring the war to an end.

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:48 AM

    Sure sergeant Yates. My tone wasn’t meant to be adversarial. I was just emphasising that the U.S. did eventually do something to sort it out, while Europe kept talking.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:56 AM

    Yugoslavia as a country should never have been created in the first place.

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    Mute Jurgen Remak
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    Jul 11th 2015, 11:21 AM

    Agreed Kevin. Many see US foreign policy as all the same when they change under different administrations. My country gets many things wrong, spectacularly so. Bush’s Iraq invasion is the most obvious disastrous US example. But the reflexively anti US nature of many prevents them ever seeing any good from the US.
    Also agree re neutrality. I’ve had some good natured debates on this forum and in person, others not so good natured, on Irish neutrality. The Srebrenica massacre is a question that confronts every nation – what would they do? No one questions the excellent peacekeeping work of Ireland, and the ability of its forces. But why just exclusivley just peacekeeping? Denmark has an excellent peacekeeping record and is also a NATO member. The two are not mutually exclusive as many of the proponents of Irish neutrality tell me.
    Irish neutrality seems to me to be a sacred cow for most in Ireland. Irish people will moan and whinge about not doing anything about IS, Rwandan Genocide, Srebrenica or other atrocities – but when it comes to it, will they want Irish troops going in, in an offensive capacity? Like hell they will – it will be peacekeeping and that’s it.

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Jul 11th 2015, 11:46 AM

    Couldn’t agree with you more Jurgen. If you took neutrality to a micro level, it would be like saying you wouldn’t intervene if you saw a thug beating up an old lady because you don’t take sides.

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    Mute Matt Connolly
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:38 PM

    No all – I remember watching at the time & the French Foreign Legion stripped their UN uniforms & re-painted their vehicles. – As for Russia saving embarrassment – they were backing & influencing Serbia. The reason they’re refusing to recognise it as genocide is because it was carried out using Russian supplied weapons.

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:58 PM

    @matt. I’ve just been told by a Bosnian survivor that French legion stole and sold artefacts from museums and even worse sold intelligence to the serbska republic militia. They are certainly not respected here.

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    Mute David Doran
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:08 PM

    Jurgen…I remember it well…no atrocity against Bosnian civilians was too much…remember the mortar killed more than 30 in a market in Sarajevo and the Serbs claimed THEY we’re being FRAMED for this while claiming the Bosnians actually did it? To their own?

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    Mute Vincent Sweeney
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:27 PM

    Unless there is oil involved you can forget about foreign intervention. And when it does come it’s usually too late

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    Mute Stephen Carroll
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:42 PM

    “Then we wonder why they hate us.”

    Who’s us @SergeantYates?

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    Mute Prof. Bernard Feck
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:08 PM

    You are looking at the incidents in isolation, in reality there are usually much larger forces at play. In the case of Syria it’s about maintaining Shia Sunni balance. There’s the stability of the region to be considered. Remember at the beginning it s Al Assad that had to be removed cause he was this terrible dictator, now it’s the opposition of ISIS that’s the problem. And we wish for the stability of the Assad era, things are never as simple as they seem.

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    Mute David Kirby
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    Jul 12th 2015, 1:30 PM

    Ah friend, that’s why Geithner was so intransigent on our debt write down, is feidir Linn

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    Mute John
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:33 AM

    The UN sat in the hills watching genocide being committed and did nothing. The most useless pointless organisation ever assembled. It was reality TV at its worst. Ethnic cleansing to your living room. Pictures of starving people behind barbed wire will never leave me and just 50 yrs after the holocaust. Shameful.

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    Mute OneTrueVoice
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:46 PM

    You sound like someone who had a vocation to be involved in politics.

    ISIS are also rampaging these days. Nobody is doing anything. All the talk is about a bunch of cosseted Mediterraneans coming to terms with paying tax as the humanitarian issue of our day.

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:28 AM

    It boggles the mind how the UN works. This incident will “haunt it’s history forever”? Will Syira? Or do we have to wait 20 years before looking back and saying “this incident will haunt us forever”?

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:29 AM

    And it’s another area that Russia has used it’s veto.

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    Mute Malvolio32
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:25 AM

    Difference though is that these Bosnians were under un protection, and then given up which should never have happened.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:06 AM

    Russia and China. Let’s not forget their vetoes every time action was proposed years ago before Syria descended into total chaos.

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:09 PM

    true malvolia – but martin, above, points out that it business relationships seem to neuter the un more and more often….

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    Mute Brian Lee
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    Jul 11th 2015, 2:37 PM

    Quite right Martin, Syria could be as tranquil as Libya is by now.

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    Mute Colin C
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:17 PM

    Compared to Syria, Libya is tranquil.

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:32 PM

    Indeed Colin – but then my radar picked that comment up as sarcasm….

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    Mute Paudi Onail
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:55 PM

    the UN is used as a populating game. Nothing more, nothing less. The middle men to those who want to play god. The decisions on where to increase it, where to decrease it, oh and perhaps even the climate.

    Yea, it boggled my mind too, they’re not the good guys, they’re not the bad guys either but part of the agenda. Create wars here, give reasons to move populations here. Sit back and watch cultures destroy each other, then step back and let the big boys move in to reap it.

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    Mute Dave Murray
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:27 AM

    …when the UN would not protect them (not ‘could’)

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    Mute Luke McDermott
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:14 AM

    Like Rwanda a few years before it, the world especially Europe (typical) sat back and did nothing.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:20 PM

    Another connection between the Bosnian and Rwandan genocides is that they were driven by Christians against religious minorities.

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:45 PM

    @daisy. I’ve just been on a few tours around Sarajevo. All the guides deny it was religious based. More to do, according to them, with Milosevic’s quest for a greater Serbia. Croatia, a Catholic country, initially sided with Bosnia against the Serb republic, but later tried to claim part of Bosnia as their own. I’ve learnt a lot today.

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    Mute James Darby
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:35 AM

    And Serbia is well on its way to becoming a member of the EU. I think they should be kept out for at least k few generations.

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    Mute Brian Lee
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    Jul 11th 2015, 2:42 PM

    Yes, ostracising people always works.

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    Mute Mjhint
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:14 AM

    this caused a Dutch government to resign & rightly so. I have met Bosniaks after this war & their stories are horrendous. One of the things they have said to me was that expected a force from their neighbours in the EU to come & rescue them but it never happened. We criticise the US for some of their action & sometimes rightly so but if you want to prevent such things its only the US that can do so. The Dutch forces on this day effectively created this mess & their commander can be seen drinking champagne with the serb commanders before handing these muslims their fate.

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    Mute Rudy de Groot
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:43 PM

    The Dutch forces did not create this mess. There were aproximately 800 Dutch, lightly armed, troops facing an overwhelming Serbian force. Repeated requests from the commander of ‘Dutchbat’ for air support were ignored. As has just become public, the US, UK and France had made a decision weeks before the Srebenicia enclave fell that no air support would be made available. The reason : UK and French troops had been taken hostage and there were fears they would be massacred if the Serbian forces came under attack from the air. None of the members of ‘Dutchbat’ wanted to surrender. They knew there would be serious consequences for the population. The suggestion that the Dutch commander drank champagne with the commander of the Serbian forces is an outright lie and should be with drawn. The commander of Dutchbat, Colonel Karremans, has demanded an apology from the current Dutch minister of Defence now that documents have been made public in the USA which clearly show that there was an agreement between the USA, UK and France denying air support.

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    Mute David Doran
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:57 PM

    Rudy de groot…I’ve read your posts on this with great interest…as luck would have it I met a member of the Dutch battalion in Luxembourg in 2003.I was and still am disgusted by this atrocity and we had several conversations about Srebrenica…what you write today confirms what he said to me,in fact he was a lot more critical of USAF air cover and as he was a FAC…..his criticisms were very convincing.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:01 PM

    Interesting, Rudy, thanks for that.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:05 PM

    Rudy, I agree with most of your posts on this thread. Dutch peacekeepers were placed in an almost impossible position in the face of overwhelming force from the Serb army.

    Its a fact that the Dutch commander was photographed drinking with Ratko Mladic though. The photograph may have been taken out of context, but its indisputable that it exists:

    http://www.anselm.edu/academic/history/hdubrulle/Europe1945/graphics/Mladic%20and%20Karremans.jpg

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 12th 2015, 12:13 AM

    Avina so many questions.

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    Mute Rudy de Groot
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    Jul 12th 2015, 11:18 AM

    You’re right, there are indeed several pictures taken of Thom Karremans with glass in hand with Radko Mladic. I also know there are pictures of Jimmy Carter and other Western leaders with Radko Mladic. Does that mean they wanted to meet that monster? I am left wondering, just because we can not see the gun to Thom Karremans head, does not mean that Thom Karremans was not under immense pressure to appear to be on good terms and “enjoy” a drink. Question is ;was this staged or just a casual occasion and everybody having a good time?
    I realise the involvement and apparant lack of action of the Dutch troops in this event has been interpreted as cooperation with the Serbs. As commander of Dutchbat Thom Karremans was faced with Hobsons choice. Fight, without any cover of air support and risk the slaughter of all the civilians and his own troops in the enclave, or surrender and try and minimise the casualties, wich is what he decided to do. There were 7 (SEVEN !!!!) formal requests for air support, none of them answered. Being Dutch I know I am biased. Yet I would not defend the indefensible. The commander of Dutchbat did not have a choice. What unfolded in Sebrenica is incredible. The resultant slaughter of 8000, primarily men and boys is unimaginable for those of us that were not there or affected by the loss of life. It is only now that (some of) the truth is beginning to emerge. Dutchbat did not stand a chance and some of the comments are very hard to take.

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:20 AM

    Sad thing is that this is more likely to happen again in Europe when the EU eventually breaks up(over money). Give those idiots Merkel and Junkers a good slap on the back.

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    Mute Very fond of
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:28 AM

    Merkel and Juncker – probably the 2 most sinister people in European politics

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    Mute Dominic Jones
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:24 AM

    The UN couldn’t protect them ? More like wouldn’t protect them .

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    Mute Kate Ellen Egan
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    Jul 11th 2015, 12:25 PM

    The UN is a toothless tiger , they did the same in Rwanda

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    Mute Greg Power
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:23 AM

    I read an article in the guardian last week saying the Dutch peacekeepers even supplied the Serbs with petrol to transport the victims. Horrendous.

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    Mute Rudy de Groot
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:45 PM

    More like were forced to surrender fuel at gun point!

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    Mute HRH The Brummie
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:06 AM

    Shame on Europe. we allowed this to go on and without intervention, it took U.S air strikes in the end to sort out a European problem. I hope we all have a guilt trip today.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:09 PM

    The Orthodox Serbs never forgot the Muslims stealing their lands and butchering their people centuries before, and they never forgave the Catholic Croats for supporting the Nazis during WW2.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:18 PM

    Jamie but they were not the same people who did those things, one thing they can’t see as evil is taught as is most things…

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:18 PM

    Following your logic we all should fight Italy now. Roman Empire used to own all Europe and most of UK. They were famous for massacres of Celts as well.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:57 PM

    I didn’t say anyone should fight anybody. Just providing a bit of context. What occurred in Bosnia was appalling.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:32 PM

    People spend most of their time living in the past, sometimes their ancestral past?

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:02 PM

    They sure do Michael, they sure do. The cheek by jowl nature of the conflict between Serbs and Muslims in the Balkans has many comparisons with the conflict in the north of Ireland; Internicene nature of the war, a 400-year-old battle between natives and outsiders who arrived in with a different religion. All the ingredients for perpetual strife.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:09 PM

    The easiest thing to teach is hatred…

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 12th 2015, 12:24 AM

    Indeed one must preach forgiveness and tolerance.

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:30 AM

    apologies are not good enough from these so called leaders, protectors,when it comes to loss of human life.

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    Mute Seafra O'Cathain
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    Jul 11th 2015, 12:09 PM

    ‘could not protect them’…should that not be ‘would not protect them’?

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    Mute Aidan Duggan
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:20 AM

    Is Bosniak a word?

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    Mute Tom's Beer Club
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:23 AM

    Yep, Bosnian Muslims

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:25 AM

    Your homework for tonight is to write a short story about the boy who couldn’t use google.

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    Mute Sergeant Yates
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    Jul 11th 2015, 8:50 AM

    What’s Google?

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    Mute Tom the Bomb
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:00 AM

    Hoisted with your own petard there, Aidan.

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:33 AM

    @sergeant – I would say “bing it” but nobody, literally NOBODY would say that!

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:52 AM

    I don’t know what a tracker mortgage is…

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:19 PM

    Sergeant, Google is a search engine that the NSA use to spy on people as well as Google use to sell what you search for to companies. In the future the data stored on people could be used as a way to send them to future concentration camps as some nutters now believe… lol.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:20 PM

    Avina Laaf, it is a caravan with a GPS system lol.

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:41 PM

    In Sarajevo now. Just been to Srebrenica memorial museum. Extremely moving and understandable how they reacted to Serb pm. Felt like doing it myself.
    Photographs of UN soldier graffiti shocking. Shows how little respect they had for the people. Comparing them to animals.

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    Mute George Vladisavljevic
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    Jul 12th 2015, 1:13 PM

    My husband was in UN in Bosnia. What graffiti are you referring to?

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    Mute Aidan Duggan
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    Jul 11th 2015, 9:29 AM

    Thanks for the clarification folks

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:58 PM

    If Vucic really believed it was a “monstrous crime”, then why did he did he get his good friend Putin to veto a UN resolution during the week condemning the massacre as “genocide”?

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    Mute You're What?
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:34 PM

    I honestly thought from the headline that I was going to see a clearly inebriated politician. Language is an amazing thing.

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    Mute Cupid Stunt
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:35 PM

    initially I thought the headline was referring to him smoking some herb.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:16 PM

    It is awful what people say out of hatred that leads to them doing things out of hatred and then they go to far and then blame others like their victims, true sign of evil people…

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    Mute Dsl
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    Jul 11th 2015, 1:48 PM

    The DUTCH are to blame – they not soldiers they are dumb whimps

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    Mute Rudy de Groot
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:58 PM

    I refer to my comments above. Your comment is reprehensible and absolutely not supported by facts. I refer to my previous comments.

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    Mute DamoS
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:23 PM

    Ohhhh .. The other stoned

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    Mute Paraic Collins
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    Jul 11th 2015, 10:26 AM

    So many typos in this article.

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    Mute Darragh DB O'Neill
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    Jul 11th 2015, 7:20 PM

    Oh, stoned. gotcha. thinking himself & our Ming would get along great.

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    Mute Affinity
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    Jul 12th 2015, 12:05 AM

    Russia are great at veto for genocide. The are the experts. No surprise there

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