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THIS WEEKEND IS going to be a hot one (temperature wise, at least) so make the most of it: here’s three more great heritage sites to visit around Ireland as part of our ongoing series on off-the-beaten track places you should visit.
Seefin Passage Tomb, County Wicklow
The Neolithic passage tomb of Seefin stands on top of a 650m high mountain in North Wicklow. It appears to be part of a series of tombs, as a number of other peaks in the area like Seefingan and Seahan also have similar large cairns covering passage tombs. This would have been an incredibly difficult undertaking in the Neolithic period. The peaks of these hills are all around 650m – 750m above sea level, so why would they have constructed these elaborate and large stone tombs? When you arrive at Seefin it immediately becomes apparent.
The views are just simply spectacular and some of the finest vistas you can ever enjoy in Ireland. The whole of South County Dublin and Wicklow opens up around you: rolling hills, well ordered fields, shining lakes all stitched together like a well-ordered quilt. It is almost like those who constructed the graves wanted to claim ownership of all they could see. That by placing their ancestors far above the low lying lands of the living, the shades of their forebears could watch over them from their tombs.
But who was buried at Seefin? The tomb was excavated by R.A. Macalister in 193. However he reported finding no artifacts and stranger still, no human remains in the tomb. Perhaps then the remains had been removed in antiquity by the decedents of the tribe; if they migrated from the area they may have wanted their ancestors with them. Perhaps in some remote period the grave had been desecrated with all traces of the those interred removed and destroyed; or perhaps no-one was buried in the tomb at Seefin in the first place, maybe the tomb was merely a symbolic marker in the landscape and never a final resting place? Or perhaps the remains were there and Macalister missed them? Whatever the case, it is certainly strange that 5,000 years ago a large community worked together to construct an elaborate tomb, that was then left empty. Perhaps in the future, a small investigation of the unexcavated tomb of Seefingan might provide the answer.
The tomb at Seefin is a large stone cairn, measuring around 25m in diameter and about 3m high. You can see a number of large kerb stones around the base of the tomb defining its outer edge. The tomb has a passageway around 10m long and opens into a chamber with five compartments. According to Macalister there are two decorated stones at the entrance, but perhaps because of the very strong light when we visited on the 13 July, we couldn’t make out any megalithic art.
(Video: AbartaAudioGuides/YouTube)
Getting there
Seefin is in Wicklow, roughly half way between the Sally Gap and Manor Kilbride on the R759. If you are travelling from Dublin go on the N7 and exit onto the N81 at Citywest. Turn left onto the R759 and continue along this road. The turn off for Seefin is on your left immediately before the large entrance to the Kippure Estate and Kippure Bridge. The turn off is only a small lane so expect to miss it and you can always turn around in the entrance for the Kippure Estate.
Drive for a few minutes up this steep track. If you come to the fences and warning signs for the Army Rifle Range you have gone too far; simply turn back and park your car in a handy lay-by. Be sure to approach Seefin from the south (as the Army range is to the north but is well marked by a fence and signs), follow the track through the fir-tree forest plantation. The track was rough and steep and haunted by swarms of ASBO-deserving horseflies but bear with it and keep climbing up. When you get to a fallen fence where the path seems to disappear, cross to the left hand side of the fence and keep following the fence up. After a total climb of around 30-45 minutes (we took it very handy as it was so hot and it took us around 40 minutes and we’re by no means athletes) you’ll find the tomb on the summit.
Our first glimpse of the tomb had a crow rather ominously perched on top of it, very atmospheric! Enjoy a well-earned rest and take in the simply wonderful views. We were obviously gluttons for punishment, as we decided to take on Seefingan, the twin peak that is also crowned with a Neolithic passage tomb identical to Seefin (see below). Unlike Seefin however, Seefingan is still unexcavated, and appears as a simple large cairn of stones. It’s well worth the walk as you can enjoy even more spectacular views as Seefingan is around 100m higher above sea level than Seefin. It’s very easy to get to, just follow the rough path to the north-east through the bog (jumping the odd minor crevasse) for around 20 minutes or so and you’ll arrive at the tomb.
The climb was made easier for us by the exceptionally dry weather, I think given the nature of the ground, that the path could become quite dangerous in wet weather so please do wear good boots and appropriate clothing if you are attempting it on a less than perfect day. If like us, you are going up on a nice sunny day I recommend insect repellent; those horseflies were merciless thugs and I’m still scratching a number of bites now. Above all though, please do be aware of the Army Rifle Range and respect their warning signs!
For those interested in prehistoric archaeology, or those who love a bit of hillwalking, or those who just want to see some of the finest views in Ireland, Seefin is a real must-see.
Navan Fort / Emain Macha, County Armagh
One of the most important sites in prehistoric Ireland, Navan Fort (also known as Emain Macha) is an incredible place of mythology and archaeology. Like The Hill of Tara, one of the other great ‘Royal Sites’ of prehistoric Ireland, Navan Fort is part of a large and complex landscape of monuments in an area steeped in the legends of Ireland. It was said to be the capital of Ulaidh and home of the great Ulster Warriors of the Red Branch, Emain Macha was also the seat of King Conor MacNeasa and it is entwined with the story of the great Cuchulainn – Hound of Ulster, who discussed epic battles and heroic campaigns here. The importance of legends relating to Emain Macha lived on through time – the famous Brian Boru spent a night at Navan Fort in 1005 to prove his worth as High King of Ireland. In 1387, Niall O’Neill chose Navan Fort as the location for a house where he could entertain guests – hoping to impress them with his wonderfully historical location.
However, in the 1960s this important site came under threat as a local quarry that was located very close to the northern part of the site wanted to expand. The quarry was already located adjacent to Loughnashade (or Lake of the Treasures) so any expansion would have meant certain destruction of archaeological deposits. An archaeological team headed by Dudley Waterman began the enormous task of excavating the site, to try to understand more about life in one of Ireland’s most important Iron Age royal centres, and to try to assess how the physical remains could match the historical and mythological descriptions.
They discovered a large enclosure that encompasses an area of around 6 hectares. At the heart of the enclosure there are two visible monuments: a large circular mound and an earthwork known as a ring-ditch. The information that came from the excavation of these features gave a startlingly complex story of activity that stretches over millennia. However the main activity on site seemed to centre around the Iron Age, around 2100 years ago in 90 BC. A huge wooden temple was constructed at the summit of the site, using over 280 large wooden posts. Strangely there is no evidence to say that anyone lived in this massive structure. Instead shortly after its construction, the temple was filled to the roof with a cairn of limestone rubble, then once the wooden structure was completely filled, it was burned down and the remains of the cairn were carefully covered with a mound of soil.
This unusual and unparalleled activity is one of the great mysteries of prehistoric Western Europe. Why did they go to this incredibly time consuming labour intensive trouble of building a structure of enormous dimensions, only to then fill it with stones and destroy it by burning? What gods were they hoping to placate? For what reason? Theories in archaeology abound about this strange behaviour, though no-one can say with any certainty the reason behind it. It is often the case in archaeology that by excavating a site you end up with more questions than you had before you began and the mound at Navan Fort is certainly a great example of that!
Poignantly, the excavators also discovered the skull of a Barbary Ape in Iron Age deposits at Navan Fort. This ape came from Northern Africa or Gibraltar, and no doubt was a little bewildered to find itself in (comparatively) cold and wet Armagh. This ape would have been an object of huge curiosity and was likely to be a treasured possession of the ruler at Navan Fort, who would have shown off his ability to trade with far-flung and exotic places.
More artefacts of immense importance were discovered in the ceremonial pool called Loughnashade. Four beautifully made bronze horns/trumpets were discovered in 1798, along with a quantity of human bones. These trumpets were the largest prehistoric horns ever found in Ireland and are thought to date to around 2,000 years old. Of the four trumpets unfortunately only one survives today; the other three have disappeared. From the surviving trumpet replicas have been created, to hear what these ceremonial trumpets would have sounded like check out this YouTube video and just try and imagine yourself as a homesick Barbary Ape.
(Video: ancientmusicireland/YouTube)
We will never truly understand all the secrets of Navan Fort but it is certainly well worth a visit as it is a site that has retained its importance through the centuries. Simply by standing on the summit of the remains of that large temple looking out over the landscape, one can understand how this became known as the great home of the Knights of the Red branch and how it was immortalised in tales of heroes. We strongly recommend paying a visit to the excellent visitor centre, where you can enjoy an exhibition and audio-visual that describes what was found during the excavations. There are also wonderful living history displays where you can experience life during the Iron Age and guided tours to the site are also available. To find out admission prices and more information you can visit this site.
Roscommon Castle, County Roscommon
In the early 13th century, the Gaelic Kingdom of Connacht was already weakened by a series of civil wars among the O’Conors, who were its native provincial overkings. In 1235 an Anglo-Norman noble, Richard de Burgo, invaded Connacht with an army of 500 highly-trained and well- equipped knights and all their foot soldiers and camp followers. The war was relatively short and certainly bloody. Immediately, the conquerers began to build castles and walled towns, as they had done in the south and east of the country; however parts of the west still offered strong resistance to the Anglo-Normans and held out. It was 1262 before the site of Roscommon Castle was chosen and works began in 1269. The site was chosen as it was formerly on the shores of Lough Nen, a large shallow lake that has since disappeared due to hydrological changes over the centuries. The O’Conors had a crannóg on the lake, and by constructing the castle in the heartland of the O’Conor Kingdom, the Anglo-Normans sought to send out a message about who was now the main power in Connacht.
The castle was constructed on the orders of the powerful King Edward I of England. He was a successful military-minded King, and he used strategically constructed castles to dominate territories and had used this technique to successfully subdue the Welsh. Roscommon Castle is constructed in a very similar style to those great fortresses in Wales like Harlech, Caernarfon and Conwy.
Roscommon Castle encloses an area of about 45m by 50m and originally would have had a large gateway in the middle of the eastern wall flanked by two large D-shaped towers, similar to the entrance to Castleroache in County Louth. The large stone walls also had projecting D-shaped towers at each of the four corners, and another smaller gateway led to the west. It is through this gateway that you enter the site today, and as you pass through it you can still see defensive features like murder holes (openings in the ceiling through which the defenders would have poured boiling fat or oil, or threw down large rocks or quicklime to maim and blind the attackers). The castle would have also been surrounded by a moat and possibly by a timber palisade fence giving a strong outer defence.
Like the castle at nearby Rindoon, Roscommon Castle also found itself repeatedly under attack and siege by the O’Conors and their Gaelic allies. It appears that the O’Conors succeeded in taking the castle by around 1340 and they held it for nearly two hundred years. In 1569 the castle was captured by the Tudor Lord Deputy of Ireland, Sir Henry Sidney. The castle was granted to Sir Nicholas Malby, who spent a vast sum in modernising and remodelling parts of the castle to make it more of a fashionable Renaissance dwelling rather than a bleak medieval fortress. However Malby also made sure that the defensive features of the castle were well maintained and that was put to the test during the Nine Years War when the castle found itself under siege by Hugh O’Donnell in 1596 and 1599. The castle saw action during the Confederate Wars of the 1640s, until Oliver Cromwell’s forces seized Roscommon Castle in 1652 and destroyed the fortifications. A fire in 1690 did massive amounts of damage to the castle and it was left to fall into disrepair through the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
Roscommon Castle today is free to enter and is a great site to explore. Situated in the grounds of Loughnaneane Park and Playground, it’s very accessible site and fun for children. The castle is down a small lane off Castle Street in Roscommon Town. It is signposted, but the lane is pretty small so easy to miss (we drove straight past it the first time). If you have time I do recommend a visit to Rindoon Deserted Medieval Town as well, it’s an amazing site on a nice day. You’ll find it between Roscommon and Athlone off the N61 and here’s our blog article about it.
All photographs © Neil Jackman /abartaheritage.ie
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The sad thing is that most of the allegations are false. Priests are no more likely to abuse children than any man.
Don’t agree with you Eoin. Any profession that has sexual restrictions placed upon eligibility is bound to attract people with sexual hangups or perversions.
Those statistics are pretty scary.
Its was a hiding ground for sexual delinquents..
Because of the actions of these priests professionals working with children/young people need stringent vetting.Its a measure that has come directly from this situation.
Ehhhh!? Have you read the title of this article by any chance? Clearly priesthood does not make a person a child abuser but it would certainly appear to be their career of choice.
I’m with Owen on this. Of course if you say this you get the usual 500 red thumbs and get accused of being sympathetic. 1st concern must be victims of abuse but also remember the 13 out of 14 here who have never been accused. Statistics are dangerous. One could also draw the interpretation if we go with the view of the group ’1 in 4′ that priests are probably much further down the offence list than family members.
The abuse is heinous but it’s also important we don’t take the view they’re all the bloody same.
It’s a sensationalist headline and we need to be careful here.
Let the onslaught begin.
And where did you pull that stupid statistic from exactly? Planet Owen; population One?
Mr owen what planet are you living on…also if the church allow them marry it will help them..not saying it will stop them because there are still a few sick rotten apples among them
Perhaps you’re right Sean, but how complicit were the 13 not accused in the culture of cover-up, concealment and lies?
Yes, but what Owen said is that most of these allegations are false. Interesting that he seems to believe that most allegations of childhood sexual abuse are false (which is totally opposed to what studies such as Dublin Rape Crisis Centre’s “Get Savi” report have found.)
Regardless of who the perpetrator is, all accusation of sexual violence should be taken seriously.
John Murphy hit the nail on the head.
The church covered up all sexual abuse cases/allegations for as long as they could, meaning the real offenders went undetected and free to abuse for decades. That is a fact which cannot be twisted like statistics.
Well indeed Caroline. You would wonder, since we’re dealing with statistics here, what percentage of Roman priests reported instances of paedophilia by their colleagues as was their moral and legal responsibility. Then we could get to getting down to patting these 13 priests on the head!
Oh dear! Silly me. Sure I forgot, they weren’t legally required to report this crime at all, at all. Wasn’t there a bit of an auld court case back in 1945 that said it was aright for ‘em to say nothing as long as they were priests. Well bugger me!
@John in my own extended family I’m aware of a case where children were sexually abused during the early 70s. Some family members found out about this in the early 90s, but it took 10 years for it to be reported to the authorities. I won’t go into the reasons why here, but suffice to say the Catholic Church doesn’t have a monopoly on covering up abuse.
I accept that Frank, and I am also led to believe that their may be a higher instance of paedophilia in family situations than in the Roman Church which I don’t set out to deny either.
What I’m referring to in my comments here is the use and abuse of professional positions of pastoral authority and care in the fields of health and education, and indeed in the community generally, that were cynically abused by the vilest of clerical criminals.
I do not want to negate any events that might have occurred in a family context but the nature of cover-up that typified the clerical situation was not as a result of any familial relationship but rather a kind of Mafia like ‘omerta’ that involved no other bond than a Roman collar.
name one other profession that has sexual restrictions r u serious
@Richard. My dad is a soccer scout and he’s had to go through hours of training around child protection. In addition there are numerous checks and balances to ensure that no scouts, coaches or managers have any 1 to 1 time with a child. These have been put in place to protect not only the child, but also the adult from potential false accusations.
That means 13 out of 14 are innocent.
ok, its about time someone asked this question: “is child abuse a deliberate policy of the catholic church?”
One wonders! But the concealment of it was.
yes, the tolerance and the protection MUST be seen as complicity and promotion
Too little, too late. AND, how can we be sure we are hearing the truth?
rotten…just rotten! only good is that its in decline, shame abuse will never be abolished
Just when I thought I couldn’t get shocked again by these monsters, this report appears to say:
The archdiocese STILL knows of three men who it describes as “serial abusers” and who haven’t been convicted.
I mean, seriously. Words fail me that they would STILL be extending protection (or “supervision” as they call it) to any ‘person’ like this.
Are you seriously suggesting 1in 14 men are abusers in the general population
Only 1 in 14?
So what is the consensus here?
They are all the same?
There are many many good priests doing fantastic work in the community.
Fr. Peter McVerry would be an example. Let us please have the maturity to deal with facts and not make the innocent in the priesthood victims of this also. I know this will not sit easily with some whose views are so distorted that they want to attack every member of the priesthood.
These stereotypical views are very very dangerous. I am with the common view that the church as a body have not done enough to deal with this.
When you paint the innocent in the same light as the offenders you are also guilty.
There’s a hint of persecution complex in your comments, Sean. Fr. McVerry is indeed an excellent man. He is hardly a “representative” (in the statistical sense) of the priesthood. It’s telling that you choose the obvious exception to bolster your somewhat tremulous (“some whose views etc.”) argument. And gingerman is “guilty” of what, now? Child abuse?
Great point Sean. 1 in 14. That’s approx 7%. So 93% have had no accudations made against them. I thought the % with accusations against would be much higher.
It would be interesting to compare the stats with other professions e.g. how many teachers or sports coaches have had accusations made about them.
Abuse aside…THEY ARE ALL CHARLATANS. Living a cushy number as they spread their lies daily.
The clue is in the figure Sean – 1 in 14. So they are not all the same, and nobody is accusing them of all being abusers.
Nevertheless, the figure of 1 in 14 is frighteningly high compared to the population at large.
@mattoid but what are these wider figures. Like I said in my previous comment it would be interesting to know what these figures are.
@Frank – there’s not a lot of academic research on professions of perpetrators. Frankly, in my opinion (I work in the sector), it’s because a majority of abusers come into contact with children through a relationship of trust with the family (or are a family member) rather than in a professional capacity.
But obviously that doesn’t make the behaviour of these priests involved less heinous.
Yes Nick. I agree. In the case of my extended family, the perpetrator had been given a position of trust and access to children and he took advantage.
The way I see it was that the freedom the church had and the resulting access that gave to children, especially vulnerable children, must have made it an attractive profession for abusers.
With hindsight I think the people who founded the Republic and successive Governments, have a lot to answer for, in giving the church such a central role in our country. While i personally see the value in having religion taught at schools, the Catholic Church should never have been given the central role it has in the running of the education system. There were simply not enough checks and balances.
That’s 1 in 14 that got caught you mean.
And 1 in 14 that are still alive. What about all the dirty auld priests that died – or the victims that did.
Don’t forget that for pedophiles the priesthood was seen as the route to pursue. It just means now they are elsewhere. It’s not the priesthood itself that is the cause – it is how it provides an attractive avenue for pedophiles to live their lives.
It just means you will find more now in other areas with a weak spot.
How many priests in the past actually had the freedom to make the lifestyle choice? Weren’t they just sent there by family mostly? Even still, why would a fully developed peado choose to live such a life when they chould just abuse their own. I don’t buy into the argument that they are making a conscious decision to join the priesthood with the intention of molesting the children in their care. Most were very young themselves when their futures were decide. Most likely the churches twisted views on sexuality combined with the unnatural lives these men are expected to live are to blame
That would suggest that any man at all who deals with children after a while could turn to pedophilia.
If their subconscious needs were related to a fear of women, homosexuality or other it would seem they would be unlikely to enter the priesthood if it was heavily policed and there were women there as well. Therefore they would go elsewhere.
I would hope they have done studies into the actual reasons they turn to it or of it was in them before they joined the priesthood and they saw it as the perfect profession to fit their twisted interests.
A close relation to me, shot himself because of Father Brendan Fortune. look that bastard up and educate yourself.
The church has failed its people and the good clergy, it needs to be torn down and rebuilt parish by parish, and women should be priests.
Why do we need it at all. It has largely been a force for evil and oppression and my family gets on fine without it.
That’s it mr Garvin just think of yourself. What about all the old biddies that take comfort in it? I bet you know a good few as well.
I’m thinking about my family Mr Lamp, if that is your real name. Who else should I be thinking of?
Just Dublin, What about the country?
The difference between “plausible” and “true” is “evidence”. “Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. “
Well said Conor.
A sensible contribution.
Don’t be surprised if you are labelled sympathetic because you are not joining the posse calling for every church to be burned down and every priest tarred and feathered.
My own view is that any priest that would abuse a child is a monster just as any teacher would be. And any priest that serves his community well should be well and truly appreciated.
I can distinguish and I don’t feel the compulsion to attack them all.
Let’s deal in facts and not pure emotives.
I am curious to read your citation (exact, if you don’t mind) of the call “for every church to be burned down etc.”. More of that hysteria, I think…
Conor & Sean
Perhaps statistically Roman Catholic priests, and brothers, are no more likely than any other grouping to be active paedophiles? I do believe however that the opportunities presented to them by virtue of of their vocations present more opportunities than your average say building site labourer.
Furthermore your average building site labourer will be less inclined to preach to others on matters of morals and ethics especially in the realms of sexuality.
Mattoid.
If the figure 1 in 14 is much higher than the national average (and I would be interested to know what you base that on) then what about the figure from the victims of abuse group 1 in 4?
Most child abuse takes place in the home by family members and extended family and friends.
Priests are typically the most sexually dysfunctional men in Ireland. Bunch of irrational deluded virgins. Grow up, grow a pair and stop believing every little thing you’re told. There is no life after death, so STFU and enjoy it without having to compensate your meaningless existence for a cosmic Jewish zombie that never existed with the innocence of little boys.
you are so rght couldnt agree more
Sean; You are absolutely spot on. There is No god no afterlife but, the thing that most people do not understand is, that every priest knows that there is No god, their training is to make sure that the myth is continued in order to control the masses. They all know the truth from the pope down.
So Fr. Peter Mc Verry is the notable exception? Oh and Fr. Kevin Reynolds whose innocence you would not be aware of but for the fact that this hysteria also crept in to journism where supposedly credible journalists sat around a table as in the Fr. Kevin Reynolds case saying things like ‘the girl even looks like him, he’s guilty’.
It’s is easy to attack the generic but when a name is put forward one is accused of highlighting the exception.
The FACTS are that we will never be sure of the statistics. The FACT remains that many priests were guilty of heinous abuse. The FACT remains that many many more were never guilty of such things.
5000 posts on the journal slating every priest that ever lived may distort the facts but it will never alter them. Pardon the unintentional pun.
Perhaps you will accuse me of distorting FACTS here Sean. Every second male I know who was ‘educated’ at the hands of the ‘religious’ can recount tales of creepy brothers that you wouldn’t let yer cat sit beside! When they weren’t dishing out sadistic punishment they were ‘feeling up’ some kid or other…
Not too many officials from the Dept. of Ed. were charged with gathering the statistics of such occurrences rather those that did mention these events got a ‘sound clip on da ear for ‘imself’.
But I’m sure of course that the brothers and ‘religious’ when sitting around the refectory table for their evening boiled egg were totally unaware of the propensity for crime among some of their colleagues and the scraping of chairs in the rush to protect the innocent would have echoed loudly through the halls of these venerable institutions had they had.
sean, why have you assigned yourself the role of church apologist? the facts are that abuse was a way of life within the church. it was tolerated, it was hidden, and it continued. THE ONLY REASON it was tolerated and hidden was because it was and is an aspect of the “church.”
Get the religious out of education. Might give kids abetted chance. Quinn has been a total letdown on church-state separation.
Indeed. Who needs an “education” that includes fairy tales presented as fact? The church is well-organised and so it was able to muster the resources to develop our schools. But it turns out it is not an organisation that works in our interest in the big picture.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own facts.
John.
I agree with you.
I am old enough to have been caned in school and I can say, hand on heart the greatest caning I ever got was from a lay teacher. That still wasn’t right and I dont go with the view that it did me no harm. It was wrong but it was the way of the time. However, I draw a huge distinction between corporal punishment and sexual abuse.
There is a huge difference.
I don’t think corporal punishment resulted in many suicides.
The majority of RC priests did not abuse, fair enough but, we seem to have our share of the ones who did. Remember also; the Bishops, Cardinals and Popes were priests before they were given the pointed hats so how many of those have slipped nicely through the net of time. Makes you think!
There may be more or maybe less than the percentage quoted. However there is a culture of claim in Ireland that encourages kids to go for what they can get. I’m sure a lot of claims are unfounded and have ruined the lives of innocent hard working priests and teachers. In no way am I condoning anything but I would be careful of a witch hunt. And apart from all of that anyone who thinks all gay men are peadophiles is a total idiot.
I really, REALLY want to challenge that myth that lots of children are lying. The highest estimate (in a study by TCD and London Metropolitan University) is that false rape claims are 9%. The study found that most of these were related to alcohol.
I think you should be careful before you assume there are “a lot” of unfounded claims and create a culture where survivors are afraid to report because they know they will be disbelieved.
Tom,
Can you back up your statement in regard to unfounded claims? If not then you should with draw it. Nick above is completely right, it can be extremely difficult for victims to come forward as it is, without further unfounded stigma being attached.
Abusing children is an awful ‘sin’, if they stop me at the pearly gates I’m going use what these priests did as an argument to gain entrance.
Second time trying to post this comment. I’ll keep it short and hope for the best. Ireland has over one hundred thousand psychopaths living here. Other countries are pretty similar, but vary regarding their percentages. In Ireland, it’s estimated at between two,to three per cent of the population. That means that there are over one hundred thousand psychopaths in Ireland. I think that the vast majority of pedophiles priests, were actually psychopaths masquerading as priests. Bear in mind that psychopaths perceive people as objects, and that they would see no difference between seeing a child being murdered and seeing a bin falling over. They feel nothing. They can’t feel anything because that part of their brain does not work. The scary thing is that all other parts of their brains work normally, to such a degree, that it leads us into a false sense of security, regarding their trustworthiness. They are not to be trusted under any circumstances. You have been warned.
They are called sociopaths, as I recall, in the US. They are especially easy to find in politics. They are the ones found with their hands in the cookie jar. With the intern in the office after hours. With the contractor working on the summer residence for free. They are at the tops of the corporate ladder, because their “me first” drive puts them where they want as they ruthlessly elbow their way to the top. The are charming. They are affable. They tell great jokes. They can be enormously successful because they only care about themselves and their agenda. They can kill thousands with bad products. They can poison the water and the air. They would kill every living thing if it stood in their way. You will find it easier to understand events if you understand the psychology behind them.
Thank you, D.S. for pointing that out.
I don’t disagree with you on priests getting married, but I do think it’s important to note that the vast majority of those who perpetrate childhood sexual abuse are heterosexual men against young girls. Equating paedophilia with gay men is just not totally accurate.
It’s important to develop good safeguarding procedures for all children to be protected from any kind of abuse from figures like priests and teachers.
Derek Mooney’s favorite bridge in Dublin is Butt Bridge….FACT
There is no afterlife?
Life’s great mystery answered here first? What then is atheism but another blind faith. I believe there is an afterlife and it is not a Catholic issue. The mystics and teachings from thousands across all religions have recorded great and some experiences at death.
A profound statement like there is no afterlife and all the priests know it to is an example of where your pen is quicker than your mind.
Sean Hickey; Pure Rubbish; You were nothing before you were born and you will be nothing after you expire, everything is a one off and all the achievements of humans amount to nothing even if we manage to survive until the Suns gravitational pull finally destroys this planet. You must face “the reality”
Thats a very depressing view of things Stephen… Nothing after you expire? Ever heard of Legacy? It also appears some people are nothing whilst they’re here!
Yes Seamus, they are indeed referred to as sociopaths, as opposed to psychopaths, nowadays. The old verification deemed psychopaths as having no ability to feel remorse empathy etc. , regardless of circumstance. The difference with sociopaths was that they could feel remorse, compassion etc. within their own environment but nowhere else. An important difference, I think.
Sorry John.
I simply don’t accept your statistic that every 2nd child was been felt up.
It makes for a great tale but I don’t accept it’s true anymore than summers were warmer when I was a kid.
It’s all nostalgic nonsense.
The only point I am trying to make is that the vast majority in the religious orders did not abuse. You can call them weird, creepy, anything you want but don’t brand them all abusers.
Sean, in second level education I attended a non-denominational school with lay teachers. At the beginning of 2nd year 30% – 10 pupils in my class had come from the local Christian Brothers school which they had left (some even on the advice of their own local parish priest!) because of the ‘activities’ of one particular brother there. By Intermediate Cert level 50% of my class were ‘refugees’ from that school. Each had his own story to tell, which I must admit as teenagers we considered hilarious!
We made up jokes about it, sang songs and jeered the students who remained at his mercy in that school – to us at the time he was no more than a pathetic old bum-boy. That was back then, now most people realize how particularly dangerous such paedophiles really were. Oh, one more thing, in spite of the wide attention that his perversion attracted he continued to teach at that school up to a ripe old age.
Quiet low percentage, I was expecting a higher number, how many bishops per 100? How many in jail so far, I’m asking cause I know a couple of inmates in the joy that will be very happy to be introduced to these holly man, so they can treat them right…
John F. You are right “Legacy” But you do not exist, except in the minds of those who are left behind and as time moves on and they too will expire so too will any memory of you until you are completely forgotten. So whether you are remembered or not, it will not affect you because you won’t exist. However this is not as depressing a thought as the one where you could be going to some place called hell unless you repeat some ridiculous lines made up by some monk with a pointed hat. As for the alternative …believing in your local magic man who’s main trick is turning biscuits into body parts and wine into blood, surely he would be a great asset down at the blood transfusion unit.
Look at that Crybaby Archbishop. He must resign and the Evil Roman Catholic Church must pay decent compensation to it’s victims then get the hell out of Ireland.
so the organization that harbored them is now “supervising them.” and is to paraphrase, more effective at it then the government???? wake up ireland.
If 1 in 14 was accused, then 5 or 6 out of 14 actually raped children. In the US, it was 4,392 out of 104,000 from the Cahtolic church’s own report.
THis is the world’s largest child rape cult, and the world’s largest hoarder of huge wealth.
God has made it so clear that this isn’t God’s church, and those who follow it will pay the price for eternity.
The pen is more quick than the mind? rather a silly statement, as the pen, being an inanimate object, relys totally on the mind of the user.
Another small adjustment to your reply; I did not mention Atheism or any other “ism” mine is not a belief but more an acceptance of The Reality that we are no different to any other life form on this planet and nothing is repeated or duplicated.
No different than other forms of life?
That would be fine if you knew what happens to other forms of life.
What is your view but another blind faith without any evidence?
I don’t have any blind faith in anything.
I educate myself in the tremendous work that has been done in this field like in studies of near death experiences. I believe we should have an open mind.
Is this just the ones that have been caught?
John F, Sorry but the truth never lets you down and once you accept it’s value, you start to adjust your thinking so that life becomes even more precious.
protestant clergy in Ireland abuse children and teens too
You leave the ponies out of this!
have your say