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SEVERAL FIANNA FÁIL Senators have condemned their colleagues Jim Walsh and Brian Ó Domhnaill in the wake of their controversial and graphic contributions to the Seanad debate on the abortion bill.
The upper house has tonight passed the committee stage of the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill by 33 votes to 14 meaning it now moves to report and final stages next week.
Walsh graphically described methods of abortion during a speech to the chamber earlier this week while Ó Domhnaill said that allowing terminations in cases of fatal foetal abnormality could deprive “future Special Olympics athletes of being born”.
Their party colleague in the upper house, Averil Power, condemned the language the pair used, saying it was “incredibly insensitive, deliberately offensive, and disgusting.”
Today, Labour senator Marie Moloney emotionally described her own miscarriage and appealed to senators to use less graphic terms, saying the “phraseology being used here today is absolutely disgraceful”.
Power told TheJournal.ie this evening: “We all have responsibilities and the lack of sensitivity for a woman who has been through a miscarriage was dreadful. I’m really, really upset about it.”
Her sentiments were shared by the Fianna Fáil leader in the Seanad, Darragh O’Brien, who said earlier during the debate that the language used had been “graphic in the extreme” and showed a “distinct lack of compassion”.
His colleague, Thomas Byrne tweeted:
Power said she intends to speak to O’Brien and the Fianna Fáil whip Diarmuid Wilson about the language used by Ó Domhnaill and Walsh but admitted this was unique situation which she had not been in before.
“Darragh has made the position clear, he has spoken for majority of the group and there’s no question that Fianna Fáil tolerates these remarks, or thinks they are appropriate.”
“Myself, Darragh and Thomas have made it clear that we completely disassociate ourselves with this,” she added.
Earlier, Fine Gael senator Imelda Henry called on Fianna Fáíl leader Micheál Martin to condemn the behaviour of “some of his party’s senators”.
She said: “A number of Fianna Fáil Senators have resorted to using shock tactics, deeply disturbing language, baseless anecdotes and complete mistruths to further their own agenda during the debate on the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill in recent days.”
Henry said the senators were not representing the women of Ireland and said there was no excuse for their “disrespectful behaviour”.
Tonight, the Seanad passed committee stage of the bill after it was guillotined before all amendments could be heard. Further debate on the report and final stage of the bill is scheduled to begin next Monday.
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It was clarified to a senator today by no less than 3 obstetricians that what he “described” (poetry reading and dramatics aside of course) was an abortion procedure that has not happened since 1975 so, no facts lads, just a pompous insensitive old git from the party of cowboys attacking the emotional well being of our nations women! They are the facts, no his vile rubbish!
So now the general population can rest easy as the pro abortion lobbyists have assured the nation that these killings are carried more humanely and no unborn is hurt is the process of their murder.
Eric just like Jim Walsh you have proven yourself incapable of mature reasoned factual interaction so I have no desire in commenting back on anything you say nor will I!
Good man Eric. You have Diarmaid on the run. He just replied criticising your comment as opposed to offering a counter argument and being abusive and labelling you as immature. It goes to show the obstinate disposition of the pro abortion lobby. When shown the door to the truth they remain adamant that abortion is still alright in the world and refuse to go through that door. This is why discussing it with them is pointless. It’s just not a matter of the intellect its also a matter of the will. You can teach a man the sky is blue but if he is not willing to believe you having exhausted all measures and means to provide the facts…..well what’s the point really? As I always say, ya can’t teach a pig how to sing, only waste your time and it irritates the pig. My advice to many is have your say and just get out of there, because you are never going to change these people’s minds. Informing them of the truth is one thing, but trying to convince them will just drive ya mad altogether because they have already made their mind up. Deep down in their hearts though they know that abortion is wrong, this is why their blood boils when they are presented with the truth of what an actual abortion is like Jim described or when shown pictures of it. It really rattles their cage and puts them under pressure to face the reality of it.
Oh look, such “Christian” words from our regular paedo apologist Stephan! You sir, are a joke! No one takes you seriously! I didn’t even bother reading your comment, cause the day you accussed me of child abuse pretty much showed the readers how low “Christians” like you are willing to go to be heard. Then again we have seen what the Magdalenes and Paedo Central aka The Vatican think of free minded folk they cant physically or verbally assault, they probably compare us to “pigs” like you do too! Did you get me solicitors letter yet for your slur against my character?
If “pro lifers” honestly thought the “but life begins at conception” argument would convince people, they’d totally ignore methods of abortion arguments. But since they know it’s a tough sell to convince most people that a six week foetus = a baby, they resort to inaccuracies about abortion procedures.
They’re afraid that if most people knew how a medical abortion actually worked, they’d lose support. And they’re right. They would.
Diarmaid is referring to the day I said to him that by supporting abortion he supports child abuse which is true because anyone who supports abortion is supporting a form of child abuse because that’s what it is, its an abuse of the life of a little innocent human being. Look at his comment just now, full of hatred and abuse. I have nothing but sympathy for you Diarmaid, its sad to see you wrapped up in so much hatred.
Anyone who believes a fertilised egg only visible through a microscope is an Irish citizen or has the same rights as a woman would want to check themselves in with a psychiatrist immediately!
If doctors were convinced that life doesn’t begin at conception they would have used it in the oireachtas long ago nick beard to procure abortion legislation.
Hi, Stephen, were you abused as a child? If not, I’d really prefer that you didn’t try to vocalise an experience you know nothing about.
I’ve never met a single person who believe abortion was child abuse who (1) was abused as a child (2) had an accurate understanding of abortion.
Actually, Stephen, under the Irish constitution, life doesn’t begin at conception, so I’m not sure why anyone would need to argue it… Why didn’t pro life doctors argue to change the law to recognise life as beginning then?
Stephen, ha ha, I’m full of hatred for promoting tolerance of peoples views and wanting freedom for peoples choices and you’re a peaceful Christian soul for accussing people you dont know of child abuse and making personal attacks on someones character is it? I didn’t realise the church were ok with heavy drug use Stephen, I presume you cleared yours with them yes?
Nick you can be sure he wasn’t, he would however, know many abusers!! It shows you the attitude of anti choice and religious nuts to real peoples pain. They wheel out terms like child abuse paying no regard to abuse victims etc! Vile human beings!
Nick the fact that the sky is blue isn’t in the constitution, does that mean it isn’t blue because it isn’t part of the constitution? Pro life doctors don’t need to change the constitution to recognise that life begins at the moment of conception because our constitution already recognises the equal right to the life of the unborn. Not every fact in the world is in the constitution therefore doesn’t make facts like the grass is green any less factual simply because it isn’t in the constitution.
Frankly, I find it a bit insulting when people who haven’t been abused inform me what abuse is. I’d rather not be born that be born into sexual abuse and if you haven’t experienced it, you have no idea. It’s the easiest thing in the world to say “life is the most important thing” if you’ve never suffered in that way.
Diarmaid, Please tell me where I’m wrong, or how about where I offended.
You assured us that the abortions described by Jim Walsh were dated practices, so is it not logical to say that the abortions are now more humane?
Perhaps you are upset when I linked abortions to killings. Is it not correct that the vast majority of abortions are carried out for ‘lifestyle/social’ reasons (98% in the UK and US), which in effect is the killing of an unborn.
I know that you disagree with me but I believe that abortion on demand is 100% wrong. Many pro abortionists in my opinion try to hide the evils of the procedure behind examples and instances that gain sympathy. But as any self respecting pro choice advocate world tell you this legislation is a means to an end, the end being full abortion on demand.
In the UK in 2010 less than 10 abortions out of almost 200,000 were to save the life of the mother, with 40 where the life of the mother was at risk.
As with the previous time I challenged you, you run off once again unwilling to debate. You post dozens of posts on this topic but when logically challenged you respond as you did above.
Except that embryos post-conception aren’t protected, Stephen. You do know embryos created for IVF can be legally destroyed in Ireland, right? Shouldn’t you be appalled and protesting at this serial killing?
A man with a picture of a “virgin” who gave birth talking about facts, you couldn’t make it up! Lol!
Ah yeah by that logic I find it terrible for someone to inform me of what burglary is without having being burgled themselves. Hahahahahahaha I am outta here. Goodnight.
Eric when you make the exact same point without stupid terms like “pro-aborts” and “murder” I will engage, I’ve told you this before. The onus is on you! If you want me to respond grow up and learn some respect and your wish will come through!
Stephen’s sensitivity regarding abuse is overwhelming, truly.
Ah Nick, type ‘image of foetus at six weeks’ into google and try telling me that image isn’t human?
Humans evolve at all stages of life, as the milk ad from years ago went ‘a child has more bones than an adults got’. Does this mean a child isn’t human cos it’s not exactly the same as a adult? Of course not.
The example of a 6 week foetus which you brought up is developing like all humans. No human at any stage in their life is the same but non the less it is human.
*true
Then no problem – provide photos of 6 week old foetuses on placards – at actual size, obviously – rather than stillbirths. Describe the reality of medical miscarriage rather than obscure, rare procedures. Do that and while I will disagree with you, I will respect you. Because you will be far more honest about the reality of abortion than most opponents, who prefer to argue with the strawman they create.
You are confused again as you never told me this before.
If the terms used offend that’s a shame but they are not inaccurate. Murder is defined as the killing of another human being, does a human being not die during a successful abortion? As a poster who frequently posts on the pro abortion view point is this not accurate too?
You my feel the term pro choice is more apt but this is very vague. I presume it’s the shortened version of pro choice for abortion anyway.
Here we go again – another comment section littered with the blinkered views of pro-life misogynists who think their word count matters.
I have found myself being in the grey on this subject – but different shades of grey over the years. I always saw the pain involved in FFA, rape, incest but have been guarded about much more. I’ve tried to inform myself and found myself becoming more and more pro-choice.
At this point though, I find myself so offended by the absolute spew that comes from the pro-life argument – the inaccuracies, the specific extreme cases, the twisting of statistics and the gall to employ science from very questionable resources without even understanding (or attempting to understand) the principles of science.
It just feels so pointless to even reply to such ingrained, entrenched, blinkered, indoctrinated viewpoints with the hope that reason might actually prevail. It actually makes me feel entrenched about a pro-choice point of view – which is a real shame I think. I don’t want to be the kind of person who doesn’t want to hear a point of view.
At this stage though – I think it’s all the pro-life expression of their point and characteristic refusal to hear anything else that has done it so really if that’s as good as their reasoning is then I’m happy they are driving people (for whatever reason) to people having freedom over their own bodies.
I would like to say a big thanks to the few (ladies in particular) who have been very very strong in their knowledge and experience in keeping a reasoned head around it. I’ve certainly felt much more informed and much more comfortable in where I find my own position is due to their willingness to address the dogma that gets spewed out here on a regular basis.
@ Diarmuid – Stephen here admitted a few days ago he doesn’t accept the priests who come out of Maynooth are properly trained which kind of counts a lot of them out.
He also said there are good “orthodox” priests out there – doesn’t sound like Roman Catholic at all to me but rather some ultra conservative branch.
Pay no attention – becomes more ridiculous each day.
Nick, they don’t care about embryos in IVF clinics, only when they’re implanted in the womb as that gives them the opportunity to try and control women’s lives and bodies.
Stíofán One look at your profile says it all, but the comments on that are for another day that I look forward to
Funny that Diarmaid, isn’t it ?, The old abstinence thing didn’t stop the virgin Mary getting pregnant !
Ok Nick, and then will you admit that the vast majority of abortions are for lifestyle/social reasons, that ‘pro choice’ advocates see this legislation as a means to introduce full abortion on demand, that the section 9 suicide clause is flawed, that children have been know to live full and healthy lives despite being diagnosed with FFA, that the pro choice movement sat on news of Savitas death for one week to organize and prepare their campaign, that thousands of abortions are carried out for such reasons as gender and Down syndrome.
While I personally will never agree with abortion at least be honest about the real downsides of abortion.
One of the downsides of abortion is women dying because of lack of access to it.
Shelia Hodgers, Michelle Harte, Savita Halappanavar and probably more.
While i not fully familiar with the cases of the first two names, lets be clear Savita died from septis which if diagnosed would have been treated. Even alan shatter admitted that the abortion savita wanted MAY have saved her life while early diagnosis of the septis WOULD have.
I have no issue what so ever with any medical treatment to save the life of a mother. Don’t forget too that in the three cases you listed their unborn child also died along with almost 200,000 annually in the UK and millions world wide. Don’t forget all them too.
I am in favour of the bill that was passed last week, but I have to say I find some of the pro choice commenters like diarmuid above to be very intolerant to anyone who doesnt agree with abortion on demand. This is a sensitive issue where people on both sides of the debate deserve respect
Right so Dr Peter Boylan of the inquest into her death was wrong? He stated that if she had been given an abortion the day she requested it she would most likely be alive. She did die of sepsis yes but what most anti-choice people ignore is what caused the sepsis, it was caused by allowing her to languish for several days with her membranes ruptured and her cervix open, a first year med student could tell you that is an open invite for infection. Since she was having an inevitable miscarriage of a 17 week old foetus, what exactly was the point in delaying the abortion? The foetus was going to die anyway but instead of carrying out the best practice of removing the dying foetus they obsessively monitored it’s heartbeat as they could not remove it until it had died and by this stage it was too late to save her as the infection had taken hold.
This is the direct result of Article 40.3.3 which gives ‘equal rights’ to a non-sentient foetus, reducing women to parity with the contents of their womb even if those contents are unviable as in this case. They simply could not help her their hands were tied by that pernicious Article. In most other countries, best practice would be to end the inevitable miscarriage in case of infection BEFORE it gets to the stage of being a threat to the woman’s life.
Again, what is the point of not ending an inevitable miscarriage? What is the point of allowing a woman suffer and risk infection and death for a foetus that is doomed anyway?
A foetus up to around 24 weeks is incapable of life outside the womb and is non sentient, why should it be protected more than a fully sentient woman? Why should it be grieved for more? You can’t equate a miscarriage or an abortion with the loss of a born child or woman.
People do grieve wanted pregnancies yes of course, but generally they do not grieve them as much as they would the loss of their wife or sister or daughter. I would be upset by the miscarriage of a wanted pregnancy and I would grieve the potential child but not to the same extent that I would grieve the loss of my born child or family member. I can assure you that if my life was threatened by a pregnancy, the most important thing to my husband and parents would be that I survive, even my mother who doesn’t agree with abortion in general agrees with that, she wouldn’t want me to be sacrificed for a potential grandchild.
The foetus was already lost, Savita did not need to die as well.
People who issue death threats, who throw salt and water at people while calling them harlots and baby murderers and who are willing to let a woman die if her pregnancy is threatening her life, are not deserving of respect.
Sorry Steven- what are your thoughts on O Domhnaill’ remarks? As an active volunteer with Special Olympics I find his comments truly disgusting. He has no concept whatsoever of FFA .
@Joe you’re having me on surely? Me intolerant? Are you kidding me? I have had to put up with personal abuse from Eric and Stephen on previous stories which is why I am frustrated above, they stalk my comments, but to suggest I’m the intolerant one is damn right unfair and in factual. My whole argument and that of pro choice is to tolerate different people’s views and choices so it’s irony at its best. On top of that I always get suspicious when someone says they are pro choice and want “abortion on demand”, that is very much a phrase used by pro life, it’s a ludicrous phrase! Finally you nor anyone on here have no idea what my feelings on liberalised abortion is so what you said is disingenuous too!
I am pro choice and agree with abortion on demand upto 20 weeks and in the cases of risk to life after that. I have no issue with the facts that Jim Walsh put out there as graphic details of a late term abortion but it was scare mongering in it’s worst form as it only describes 2% of abortions carried out, most of these due to fatal Feotal abnormalities, he totally ignored the 98% of abortions that are nothing like his description. Put all the facts forwards if you want to be graphic, not just the scare mongering minority ones. As for the other idiot, maybe someone should explain the meaning of the word Fatal to him, what he said defies belief and is even more vile than what Walsh said
Pro life is even more vague!!! You would prefer a woman + the foetus die than allow an abortion (under this legislation that is pretty much the choice) so how is 2 deaths = pro life
I agree that anyone who would actually like to debate on these topics should not be allowed to use terms like baby killers, murderers or pro aborts. They are not accurate.
Let’s take these one by one:
“that the vast majority of abortions are for lifestyle/social reasons” – the major reason Irish women have abortions is because they’re worried about supporting their children. You might consider that “lifestyle reasons”, but I consider it women doing what they need to for their families.
“that ‘pro choice’ advocates see this legislation as a means to introduce full abortion on demand” – That would require a repeal of the Eighth Amendment. I don’t think this legislation will lead to abortion on demand and so support a campaign to repeal the Eighth Amendment.
“that the section 9 suicide clause is flawed” – the people have voted that a woman has a constitutional right to an abortion when she is suicidal due to a pregnancy. You might as well examine if the rights to freedom of speech or assembly are flawed in specific circumstances. That’s how constitutional rights work.
” that children have been know to live full and healthy lives despite being diagnosed with FFA” – funny, this seems to be an urban legend almost exclusively devoted to friends of a friends of pro lifers. I take this with a grain of salt, similar to the pro lifer who claimed her doctor “pressured” her into an abortion for ffa (by pressured, she meant that he had mentioned the option. That’s not pressured)
“that the pro choice movement sat on news of Savitas death for one week to organize and prepare their campaign” As someone who knew about it before it broke, I “sat on it” out of respect for the family. Unless you think random pro choicers have the right to go to the press with news of a stranger’s death, and if so, that says FAR more about you than about me.
“that thousands of abortions are carried out for such reasons as gender and Down syndrome. ” – You have no idea of the figures. Maybe. Maybe not. But it’s easier to believe that when you have no contact with the women and simply look down on them.
Nick +1000 green thumbs!
@ Nick – comment of the year!
“…have your say and just get out of there, because you are never going to change these people’s minds. Informing them of the truth is one thing, but trying to convince them will just drive ya mad altogether because they have already made their mind up…”
Exactly, the fundamentalist ultra-nationalist/catholic zealots can’t hear anything except what they want to hear. Sure an’ begorrah ’tis like trying to teach a donkey to ride a bicycle.
Lot of work in these replies Nick. Well done. :)
Diarmaid, please, stalking, this is my second ever conversation with you the only reason I notice you is cos you insulted me 3 times in our previous conversation on top of mocking my avatar. I have never launched a personal attack on you, your abortion ideals yes but never you, thats your preserve. I would concur with the poster above who described you intolerant, I would ad to that, that i find your arguments often illogical and even slightly immature and unfortunately your posts cause the thread to veer. While I disagree with Nicks ideals I can not level the same on her, she responds well and is civil (I’m using Nick as a example as she has contributed heavily in this thread)
@ Nick, it’s almost 11 now an I’ve to head away, ill try to respond later tonight.
D and E abortions are still carried out, Diarmaid. In 2011, in England and Wales, 43% of abortions at 20 weeks or over used this method. I, personally, believe that all abortions involve a tragic loss, but, if we heard of a toddler or an adult being killed in this fashion, we’d be totally horrified.
You’re right of course Eric, I am the immature and illogical one when you are the one referring to “babies being murdered” and “pro aborts”! Good argument!
Interesting to note that the report from the Commissioners of the UK Parliamentary Inquiry into Abortion on the Grounds of Disability which was released two days ago said that “The UK Government must review the Abortion Act and end the discrimination against unborn disabled children.” Parents who gave guidance to the Commission spoke about reaction among the medical community to diagnosis.
” A considerable number of witnesses reported
from their experience that after the discovery
of a fetal disability, the presumption of the
medical profession was that parents would
opt for abortion.
• “My son (who is now 8 years old) has Down
Syndrome, he was diagnosed in the womb at
35 weeks and I was actively encouraged to
seek a termination by the doctor who gave
me the diagnosis. I was given no support by
my local hospital in my decision to keep my
baby, I had to actively seek support elsewhere
and I’m sure you will appreciate how difficult
this was as I was heavily pregnant and in a
vulnerable state.”
This sort of experience was shared by many. The report said that parents can find themselves been given onl ya leaflet on abortion rather than a support package and/or information specific to the condition diagnosed. Women were being left to seek out information themselves at a time of great distress. One couple gave evidence saying-
…the pressure was to end life not to support
and inform parents. Every time we received
a diagnosis of another potential problem we
had to find out what we could on the internet
and then ask questions. Information and
support was minimal. Indeed we were made
to feel as if we were doing something wrong
by continuing with a pregnancy where the
child might have been disabled.”
Thank goodness this report has provided some positive news for parents of children with disabilities and highlights the ongoing discrimination against this group.
No one should be actively encouraged to have an abortion for any reason. This is why pro choice are exactly that. Pro-Choice. Choice to abort or not to abort. Doctors should inform you of the facts, the difficulties that you may face (in either option) but they should not try to make you decide in one way or another.
“In 2011, in England and Wales, 43% of abortions at 20 weeks or over used this method” – what Maria DOESN’T mention is the rarity of abortions between 20 and 24 weeks. What percentage of abortions are those, Maria? That’s the part you neglect to mention. You also ignore that a major percentage of those are Irish women who could not afford to travel earlier. By enforcing a ban on abortion in the first 12 weeks, you are contributing to later abortions. Does that not bother you as someone who claims to be opposed to them?
And you seem very confused between the role of medical professionals and social workers. Medical professionals diagnose a medical condition – social workers point you to various support services. A doctor not being able to explain in detail the welfare programmes available for your specific condition is not pressure. Hanneke is right – doctors should inform you of medical consequences and perhaps refer you to a major charity, but to expect them to keep appraised of ever changing support services is VERY out of their job description.
Hi diarmaid, just wondering if you could put the links up for the statement reports of the three obstetricians who have stated that abortion is’nt carried out the way that the senator described.. thanks
I don’t have the statements James, but I never said I did, you’re being facetious! A cursory glance at senator Colm Burkes twitter page will provide you with details. Worth noting he is a fg senator before he’s accused of having “a liberal agenda”.
Miceal Martin has totally lost control of his party … its a rag tag of pompous elitest, money grabbers. There is no recognition of reality in the party any more (not that there was any sense of self-control during the last 30 years anyway).
I hope the Irish people dont give them credence at the next election.
“its a rag tag of pompous elitest, money grabbers.”
isn’t that why Michael Martin joined FF in the first place, he was balls deep politically with Haughey in the 80′s.
Two parachuted appointees with no attachment to reality and no sensitivity, compassion, tact or public speaking skills. Two more arguments against keeping the Seanad. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some senators this last week or so has done enormous damage to the dignity of the Seanad.
Fu(k off
Let us abolish this House as soon as possible and consign these heartless fools to the wayside.
Or maybe, you know, reform it?
No get rid. No reform needed.
He merely described what happens in late term abortions. There is no term limit in the abortion legislation so while the termination process may be more “humane” the end result in the case of a woman presenting as suicidal is that we will have what are otherwise viable human fetus’ being delivered when they are not yet viable babies.
What happens when a woman presents at 18 weeks? Seriously. What happens if she is suicidal? The baby (or fetus) MUST be “delivered” if that’s what she wants and has been approved by two head shrinkers.
At what point does the equal right to life of the unborn kick in? When the waters break? When the head is delivered? This legislation is so stupid because it is unconstitutional and will be proven to be so.
I’m not pro life or pro choice. I think that a definitive solution should have been worked out. We still don’t have clarity 30 years on
I’m against late term abortions, it is horrendous. I’m fairly conservative on abortion overall.
I however draw the line on some ahole using babies with fatal conditions to score political points so he can build a profile before next election.
I turned a blind eye to his fighting in the bus a few years ago, gave him the benefit of the doubt when that expenses story came out recently, pending inquiry but this, fup that.
Brian Ó Domhnaill is the lowest of the low.
A comment like that is disgraceful
William
What was the expenses story?
Sorry I know there have been lots of expenses stories but I didnt hear about this clown being connected to one.
Bluemist. What’s disgraceful about it? There is no term limit on this abortion legislation and it will be proved to be unconstitutional. Two govt ministers have already asked Michael D to refer it to the supreme court before he signs it as they know this
Of course it will be upheld. I’m not surprised people want it referred, but as it adhered rigidly to X, it will be found constitutional. This is wishful thinking on your part rather than informed constitutional analysis.
They have asked it be referred so that the Supremes can judge it and then no question can be raised as to its constitutionality for years on end, with some numpties trying to overturn the law whilst a woman is dying every so often on a new technicality. Referral to the SC will show it is within the constitution and if it is referred prior to Presidential Assent, it can’t be later challenged
He didn’t “merely” describe what happens in late term abortions.
What he did was take an extreme scenario, which is not even within the scope of the bill at hand, and disingenuously present it as if it were the truth for every abortion ever.
Just like the pro-life lobby latch onto every death that is in any way possibly related to woman’s reproductive rights as with the case of the girl in the UK who took an abortion pill which she got some kind of infection from and died from it. It mattered in no way what that pill was about, the infection could have come with an array of medications.
Misrepresentation is what this was about.
There is no term limit because a threat to a woman’s life can occur anytime during pregnancy, also doctors will be making the decision and not women themselves because there is no choice involved. If a pregnancy is threatening a woman’s life then it will be legal to perform an abortion. After the point of viability, around 24 weeks, if the pregnancy is a threat to the woman’s life, the foetus would be delivered not aborted as it has a chance of surviving outside the womb and would be given the same treatment as a premature birth. That’s why there is no term limit, it’s simple to understand.
If the pregnancy is threatening the woman’s life it will be legal to terminate the pregnancy… if the foetus is at a viable stage every effort must still be made to keep it alive… and this is what makes the distinguished senator’s description so unacceptable… it was mendacious in the extreme
Fair enough if fg are out of favour at the moment but for the love of god can we not go all Irish on it and put ff back in :/
Jasus Sean….you have to be joking ??
Just to confirm I meant anything but fine fail would keep me fairly happy.
At least 3/4 of Fianna Fail stood up for the unborn…and allowed their TDs the democracy of choosing to vote, yes or no, FG, Sinn Fein and Labour TDs were dictated to by their leaders to vote yes. I want parties in Government that exercise democracy.
So they did something you agree with on one social issue fair enough. Just please never forget that that party drove this nation to the edge of economic extension and began an IMF process that forced you to pay for that parties mistakes. Since Ireland gained independence Irish people have been far too forgiving too fianna fail by always eventually bringing them back into power no matter how terrible there governance was. I just fear history is going to repeat itself once more and Fianna Fáil will run riot again.
Ciara, FF did plenty to cause abortions by causing financial problems which led austerity measures. A few life saving abortions will be granted because of this legislation. How many women will feel forced to access abortions due to a result in FF policies (not that FG is any better – but sad how few who consider themselves “pro life” are interested in ending Ireland’s unwanted pregnancy problem.)
Disgusting comments by Brian Ó Domhnaill yesterday. Can’t wait to exercise my vote and attempt to end the farce of Seanad Eireann.
Just look at that guy. Looks like he’s been condemned already. Should be in a Simon Pegg movie.
A party of nasty men acts like nasty men.
What do you expect from rats but squeaks.
Not one women has made a comment on this ..really surprised. All I will say is if a woman’s life is in danger then abort, as for a suicide threat, would like to see truthful numbers on that.one because if a pregnancy is unwanted for whatever reason most woman go to Britain for an abortion. Leave it to the women, and the answer is in the amount of women over the years who have travelled for an abortion. No amount of bible thumping or crude remarks will change that.
Fianna Fail and the word “Disgusting” appearing in the same sentence.
I’m stunned!!!
Vaticanos will stoop to any level to hold on to their power. We should never forget that this is the mentality that enslaved women in laundries for imagined crimes against their world view. They covered up for child rapists to protect their organisation. They would prefer to see Aids spread in Africa rather than educate people about condoms…….in fairness what would you expect.
Who needs the seanad anyway!!!! GET RID OF THEM!
You are anti-democracy if you believe this Kevin
So Ó Domhnaill wants his expenses hearing as Gaeilge but was happy to use English when he spewed out his vile attack on the Bill.
The word “hypocrite” springs to mind!
Jim and Brian and Fidelma and Mark gave fantastic speeches in the Seanad. They all spoke the truth about abortion…and the truth hurts people…because deep down inside of all of us, we know that killing a living child is not right.
“Just because you cannot see me, does not mean I do not exist.”
The truth will set you free.
Well done senators for speaking the truth on this inherently flawed abortion bill.
@Ciara Sherlock
Are you related to Cora?
Who are these men to be able to tell me what I should and shouldn’t do with my body? why describe that late term abortion? what possible relevance does it have if a woman’s life is in danger? to punish the “sinner” for having the brazen neck to try save her own life? get these people out of positions of power, never vote for these insensitive uneducated cretins again please? for the love of women! (not for the love of God! that doesn’t come into this debate)
That scenario he put forward, was the most ludicrous and offensive thing I have heard in quite some time, the “baby” staring up at the doctor, the poem while being wheeled off to the incinerator about it’s thoughts and feelings???!!! THAT MAN SHOULD BE NOWHERE NEAR CIVILISED PEOPLE! someone call emergency services, that man needs committing, I’ll volunteer to sign the order if his next of kin wont, he’s clearly out of his mind.
He sounds like a snuff voyeur. Don’t waste your emotions on his verbal sewage. He’ll harvest what he sown soon enough. May be his daughter will talk sense into him. One would hope anyway….
Did he speak the truth or not? If he did how can he be condemned?
He did not. He was talking about things that this bill does not allow.
I’m against abortion on demand fools like this imp will only lead to that coming about.
He did speak the truth. A dilation and evacuation abortion can be performed from around 13 weeks onwards.
It’s commonly used for miscarriages. So much for “love them both”, as a Senator who actually suffered from a miscarriage found it heartbreaking to be reminded of her miscarriage. It’s also used for fatal foetal abnormalities, so the parents will have a body to bury.
have your say