Tom- do you think we’d have a more progressive society without dogooders like:

The Labour Movement
Charities of all kinds
Feminists
Gay rights
Republicans (French revolution sense)
Environmental campaigners
Civil rights campaigners
etc.

Newsflash for you Tom:

Often times they are the same people because many of these issues are related. There are those who active try to change the world for the better and those that sit at the bar moaning about the state of the country.

They could just use their aircraft and bomb them right?

do gooders were grand when there issues make sense and are viable like gay rights, civil rights etc etc but recently in ireland the immigrant council of ireland have become a ranting mouth piece blaming everything on racism and then when its found that immigrants are at fault hide behind the self righteous badge as soon as someone suggests we not open the doors to every immigrant and only allow ones that have a job and ability to look after themselves like the aussies we have the bandwagon brigade going crazy without even debating………and lets be clear my profile pic is to do with a football club and the irish association with it nothing else

The vast majority of Irish people who ever emigrated anywhere had low levels of skills and qualifications. They worked hard, a trait common to most people who leave their home in search of a better life.

You seemed to have reduced your sweeping statement about dogooders to the Immigrant Council of Ireland. Can you mention specific cases that you object to their action?

Haha brilliant Tom, your rants and the Celtic profile picture goes really well together. “And if you know your history…”, you’d obviously be aware of the deep discrimination and hatred of the marginalised Irish people in the west of Scotland, and how authorities wanted to send these emigrants back to Ireland. But hey, don’t let that interfere with the argument, just an interesting detail…

Tom. How hard is it to understand that seeking asylum is NOT ILLEGAL??

John.. Australia is right to prevent this influx. As stated most are not fleeing persecution in their homelands and are just economic migrants abusing CRSR laws. They will be sent to papa new Guinea for processing, I’m sure in the event of a proven genuine case, they will deal with them on a case by case basis. Ireland should similarly adopt an approach like this. CRSR laws state that a refugee can only claim asylum in the first country they land or dock in. Ireland is never that country but we grant asylum like its going out of fashion. There are no direct flights to africa or any third world or developing middle eastern countries for instance so anyone claiming asylum could actually be sent back to London or paris or wherever for processing but this is over looked. We leave ourselves open to abuse. Strict immigration laws are needed and due process by applicationa visas should be mafe stricter.

@Marguerite Hoiby, see my comment about giving them the means to improve their lives by allowing them cheap power water and food.

From the article…..
“AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER today announced that no more boatpeople will be resettled in Australia as refugees, with all unauthorised arrivals to be sent to poverty-stricken Papua New Guinea. Even if found to be “genuine refugees” Rudd said asylum-seekers would have “no chance” of settlement in Australia under the harsh new policy.”
This is a clear breach of the terms of the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (CRSR).
Australia has never treated its asylum seekers in a humanitarian fashion, irrespective of how they arrive in that country.

Ok I stand corrected, however, I still stand by the rest of what I say. Australia has the right to protect itself from thousands of refugees. I totally agree with their strong deterrent regardless if they break international law.

That law is already there but not enforced. Airlines and ferry company’s have an obligation to check each passengers visa or passport but sadly they did not

He is to send them to your relative Peter O’Neill, John..

Still as witty as ever I see Brian…

@ John O’Neill

To my knowledge Australia signed the convention in 1951, the world has changed considerably since then. The convention needs to be modernised.

The aborigine argument is old. 2nd class citizens? They are entitled to a whole range of benefits, from centrelink welfare payments, to free housing, healthcare and subsidised medication. They can claim royalties from industries, payments if they live in remote areas, have easy access to higher education courses and even get paid a study wage.

No right minded individual would deny the fact that they were treated inhumanely but great efforts have been made in seeking forgiveness and attempting to build a better future for the indigenous population

Get over your hatred of Oz

Well and correctly written, thank you.
Although, you wonder if such generous welfare is why they for the most part have such terrible social problems.
Maybe, we are killing them with kindness?

Check out the Mabo treaty?

so – its ok for tens of thousands of Irish to go to Australia – but not for the boat people to seek refuge there – despite the fact that in doing so Australia is breaking International law – but I see from your other post that u have no time for international law anyway .
how may Illegal Irish are in USA ??.
Its ok for Irish to land on other countries – but not for others to land on ours – or Australia !!.

Send class citizens? ?? There are same as travellers here get everything handed to them and don’t want to better themselves. Australians bend over backwards for them.

Change the record. Must be awful burden to have chip on your shoulder about everything and be right about nothing

The tens of thousands of Irish who have arrived in Auz have arrived there with visas, I would imagine. For those illegal Irish immigrants in the USA , it is not alright and they should seek legal status

Jim, yes it’s perfectly fine for thousands of irish to go to australua because they go legally by applying for visas which requires among other things a police clearence to prove your of good character. The people arriving on boats illegally could be fleeing their home country for any reason e.g after committing a serious crime or worse still be a registered sex offender etc.. the aus government also has a duty to protect its citizens from internal and external threats. As for the illegal irish in the usa, its different because they are not applying for asylum. While illegal, they are not benefiting from the us tax payers. A refugee, at the cost to the tax payer will be housed, fed, clothed, their children will be educated and adults offered higher education and on top of this they are given weekly welfare (granted its not very much, in ireland around 17e per week but everything else is paid for them). I have no problem with the costs associated with asylum and the granting of it but only if its genuine. The burden of proof presently lies with the government, a person can claim asylum and has to offer no proof of the reason, it is then onto the government to prove that they are or are not in risk if deported. This in itself costs millions. The burden of proof should be switched so that an asylum seeker must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that their life would be in danger etc if deported. The present system is open to abuse.

If you start to apply this argument to every battle, war and argument, we could redraw the map on daily basis.

There’s still war, there’s still oppression, especially in Iran, where many of these asylum seekers are from, and there are still refugees. There’s still a need for the convention and it behoves every signatory to the convention to abide by its terms.
Australia is breaching the convention with these new regulations, plain and simple.
To point out deficiencies in a country’s policies doesn’t automatically make one a hater of that country…

Cholly it’s not illegal to enter Australia, or any other country, without permission and claim asylum. You also are misrepresenting the cost of asylum seekers by characterizing it as an additional burden to Australian tax payers. Australia funds all of the costs of asylum seekers out of their foreign aid budget, so if asylum seekers stopped coming that money would be diverted back to Asia where they spend most of their foreign aid.

Its a start! At least the wrongs have been acknowledged and a great deal done throughout soceity and within education in recognising the wrongs of the past

There comes a point in time where the people of today cannot be held responsible for the wrongs perpetrated by those of centuries ago

@Alan I agree with that sentiment, we all have to stop blaming the nations of today for what was done long ago. Are we expected to blame the Scandinavians for what the Vikings did to us? No, the idea would be ridiculous yet many have no problem continuing to blame our neighbor.
That said we have to face reality, our country cannot support itself right now and should have a very selective immigration policy. Throwing the doors wide open is just asking for trouble, how can we be then surprised when it arrives?
If we continually refuse to honestly acknowledge what’s in front of us for much longer we won’t be able to do anything about it soon. Economic migration is one thing, the Australians are seeing it, every country sees it to one degree or another, but when those migrants take the trouble to travel across Europe, through the wealthiest countries, with the best to offer, to come to a small island on the far West of Europe in the middle of its worst recession you have to ask why. Why would they ignore the best Europe has to offer to come to Ireland, unless we offer more.

@ and i yours Jedi.

A countries borders MUST be maintained.

Im all for helping those in need and personally i would rather see the countless number of people languishing in refugee camps be given an opportunity rather than those spending the money and fuelling an inhumane trade. Most ‘asylum seekers’ bypass all or alot of Asia, land in the Philippines and only then move onto Australia. If it is safety they seek then why continue to Oz? Many are economic migrants and i think its unfair they be given preference over others. Buying a ticket and braving a journey – no matter how dangerous it is should not enable you to jump the line. A tough stance and refusal to allow entry is necessary to rip away the one promise people smugglers have.

Unenforced migration is extremely dangerous. It must be tightly controlled and those allowed to reside supported and made to integrate as best they can, learning the language and the culture to ensure they will contribute to society and they and their families prosper. Parts of Europe and Scandinavia are just some examples of the policy failing, Australia would do well to heed this warning

no it doesn’t.

@Tim Stephen Hendy Could you maybe expand a little on that?
There is a very big difference between what we see on TV when we’re shown starving famine victims barely cling to life. If you’re old enough to remember the Ethiopia famine that prompted the world into action in the early 80′s those people could not have travelled across continents, even if they’d know where Ireland was, or cared. Their only concern was to get some food and water. In cases like that its a matter of survival.
What we’re talking about are people who clearly know where they want to go, they know enough to ignore the wealthiest countries in Europe to travel to a tiny island on it’s farthest Western edge in the middle of the worst recession in it’s history. The come here with a purpose and do so for a reason. When gardai arrested Nigerian criminals here they managed to get their mobile phones before they could be destroyed, a text message sent back to associates in Nigeria read, “Come to Ireland, it is a virgin country. There is money to be made here”.
Earlier this year Lithuanian gangster Gintaras Zelvys from Rathcoole, Co Dublin was murdered, but he was already a well known criminal figure here. He had been released from prison a year previously after serving a seven-year term for extorting money from innocent Lithuanians in Monaghan and other counties. He was also sentenced to four months’ imprisonment in 2008 for assaulting a female garda in north inner Dublin. Before coming here, he had escaped from prison in Lithuania where he was serving a jail term for rape. He also ran a lucrative trade in smuggling mobile phones and other contraband into Portlaoise Prison. At the time of his imprisonment in 2007, he was living in Celbridge in Co Kildare and driving an €85,000 Mercedes CLS. What a nice man, but he wasn’t unusual.
Now an argument is often made that Irish people emigrate too, yes they do. But try getting into America, Canada or Australia without the proper documentation or a criminal record, try getting into any or those countries if you escaped from prison while serving a rape sentence or if you don’t have sufficient funds to support yourself or a job to go to. If you then stay illegally and get caught in those countries do you think you’ll be given what you are here and allowed stay for years while you appeal deportation? You’ll be on the next plane out of there. But here the gardai know many of these folks delay for as long as possible, leave of their own accord then come back again within a year or so with a new identity and it starts all over again.
If you’re happy sending €300m Social Welfare payments to foreign addresses each year and sitting back with the doors of the country wide open, that’s fine keep doing nothing. For everyone else who object to this we’ll put pressure on our elected elite and who knows, maybe some of them will listen and have the backbone to do something. Then you can say you agreed all along.

1. Do you have a source for that text message that you referenced?
2. Regarding your ganster story. You are aware that Lithuania is part of the EU and therefore he had a right to travel to Ireland. All this story shows is that not all immigrants are nice. This is not news. They should be prosecuted in the same way as locals- end of.

3. Do you know that the single greatest source of income in Ireland in the 19th century were remittances from the Irish in the UK and US. It’s the same story- the same motives. The vast majority of Irish emigrants were economic.
4. The doors of the country are not wide open- stop trying to create a sense of panic.

Jed, the ‘no it doesn’t’ is a reply to the assertion Australia belongs to aboriginals, as if it were even a relevant point in the first place.

@PaoloFreire With reference to the text message this was first reported in an article in the Irish Independent on May 12 2013 by Jim Cusack.
My point was not whether someone is or isn’t free to travel, although I doubt someone who escapes from prison while serving a rape sentence is free to cross international borders and is free to travel. As I said he record, both before coming her, and since he came here indicates he did not come here for any other reason but to exploit. Had there been better immigration control such people may be intercepted at our borders.
This is a discussion concerning the 21st century not the 19th century. But seeing as you opened the door, Nigerians immigrants here are sending back almost half a billion euro per year, an average of more than €26,000 for each of the 17,642 Nigerian nationals in Ireland, including children. Monies sent from Ireland by foreign migrants are three times higher than the amount of money being sent home to Ireland by the Irish abroad. (Irish Independent 19th May 2013 Jerome Reilly and World Bank figures)
The doors of our country are, more or less, wide open, we have no immigration policy to speak of. As I said compare entering Ireland with America, Canada or Australia, take a look at the criminal records of those entering our country. Time and again we see people up in court here and, shock horror, they have long criminal records in their country of origin.

A great deal has not been done . aborigines are still being robbed of their land for mining etc – .
read this article by John Pilger of some weeks ago – he is Australian BTW

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/28/australia-boom-aboriginal-story-despair

Ur problem is not non eu ur problem is eastern people but u can say any thing cause no one listen u eastern European is more than non eu so get right figure and stop complaining ……. Complain box….

Just to be clear Paulo.
My comment is from first hand experience.
and my comment is not directed at foreign people.
It is to point out the ineptness of our own Irish government.

Over 80,000 young highly qualified young Irish people emigrated last year.
Over 50,000 people immigrated into Ireland last year.
So if the Irish government discriminate against anyone,
it is obviously their own young people.

I have worked/done business overseas on numerous occasions in my lifetime.

And in all the countries that I worked in there was one common thing that I did notice.
and that was
“If I didn’t work I didn’t get paid anything”

“Personal experience” my ass.
You don’t even realise that asylum seekers here are NOT ALLOWED to work while their application is being processed. Processing takes up to six years during which they will be deported if found to be working.
You’re implying that there is no such thing as a genuine asylum seeker.
There is.

Yes John.
In fact I personally know one family of asylum seekers with 3 kids living in a brand new house to their requirements, and a nice car.
None of them work.
They want for nothing.
2 of the fathers siblings have families and live in similar situations throughout Ireland.

There home country is 8000-10,000 miles away, with no direct flights to Ireland.

Isn’t Ireland a great country that can afford that John?

Harry

Asylum seekers are not allowed to work in Ireland, so you have no basis on which to make sweeping statements about their contribution to society.

Can you give us your sources on the 50,000 immigrants. I’m not saying your wrong, i’d just like to have a look at the figures e.g. were they foreign born (potentially of Irish parents) or were specicialist workers who filled a need in the labour market or were they students etc…

The emigration levels are a disgrace. You don’t need to tell me. I’ve already left and economic challenges was about 50% of the rationale in moving. Your comments about first hand experiences are a bit odd though if you’re referring to applicants being preferred if they’ve landed somewhere else first etc.

So you think you know of “one” family of asylum seekers….
How do you know their exact circumstances? Are they friends?
By the way, genuine asylum seekers frequently have their own financial resources.
If you are aware of “asylum” seekers breaching the conditions under which they await assessment of their application, you should immediately report it to the proper authorities…
Or have you already?
I detest idle gossip by the way.

Harry sound like ur talking about those people who grow drugs on daily basis cause I never heard that they are out side from Ireland…..

In good time and bad Australia lets in approx. one hundred thousand immigrants per year.
A country with 20 million people and a land mass bigger than Europe.
They look for highly qualified, hard working, professionals, that are fluent in English, with their own funds.
These immigrants are given a sense of privilege and achievement when they have been accepted.
This type of selective immigration adds value to a country and its economy.
How does this compare to our immigration system?

Not to mention that the Australian immigration authorities make you take a full medical and HIV test with a doctor, from their panel.

Yes John they are my friends.
And they are not breaking the law, they are just freely accepting what is given to them from the over generous PC Irish welfare system.

It’s funny though
many Irish people I know
that were born and bred in Ireland
and worked hard all their lives in businesses and in jobs in this country
and paid their mortgages and taxes through thick and thin
have fallen down on their luck in recent times
but it seems when they go into the local dole office cap in hand
they have been shooed away like lepers.
The generous Irish welfare system does not seem to be as available for the native Irish People.

http://www.thejournal.ie/visa-immigration-ireland-2012-737991-Jan2013/?com_ord=date#comments

Why don’t the IMF the Un and Co force The US and The UK to take in these asylum seekers?

Is it not the US and the UK who generally pillage these developing countries?

I dont ever remember an occurrence when Ireland invaded or colonized another country?

What do we owe them?

Should the billion dollar arms and oil industry not be picking up the tab for their destruction?

do you have to give a negative comment on every statement,refuges bleed a country dry,end of.

We must not avoid the facts for fear of being negative.
Prepare for bad days ahead and you’ll only ever have good days.

Blame the immigrant for all social ills…now who operated that policy back in the 1930s and 40s.
Frankly Harry I don’t believe that immigrant family are your friends. If they are you must be a real two-faced hypocrite with them…

What a stupid, sweeping statement…

Please point out exactly where I “blame the Immigrant for all social ills” John.
My comments are directed at our loose immigration laws and legislation.

Australia is basically a underpopulated desert in the middle of nowhere
Yet people feel extremely privileged when the are accepted in there as residents.

Australia is positioned in asia beside literally billions of potential asylum seekers
they have one of the biggest coastlines on the planet to police
Yet they get their immigration right.

Ireland is a fantastic country in comparison to Australia.
Answer me this John why we seem to accept just anyone as an immigrant when compared to Australia?
I say this as someone who has achieved permanent residency in Australia.

Sorry Typo
Answer me this John why do we seem to accept just anyone as an immigrant when compared to Australia?

Simple answer Harry…We don’t…check the statistics…
http://www.ger-can.net/html/spirasiwebsite/partofirelandnow.html
I recommend this link to anyone who wants clarity with regard this alleged open-door policy regarding immigrants in Ireland.

The effects of a lot of wars from long ago are still being felt today,I’m not sure what you’re point is as Australia took in over 90,000 Vietnamese refugees after the war.

So Afghanistan was a stable country pre 9/11?You do know there was a civil war going on there at the time don’t you?And as I said already,why don’t Afghan refugees seek asylum in Malaysia or Indonesia,Islamic democracies which are a lot closer than Australia.

Like it or not Australia is an English speaking country why should they drop sensible language requirements that promote integration and social cohesiveness.Any country with a logical immigration policy would have similar requirements.

“It can easily take more people”, well, so can your house. It doesn’t mean more people should be there, does it? Australia is vulnerable precisely because it’s so large and underpopulated, to massive migrations. How would that be a good thing?

Australia looks big on a map but the fact is the habitable areas are confined to narrow strips along it’s coasts ,most of the interior is inhospitable desert and access to water is becoming a bigger issue.

al, such trivialities don’t concern the “ah shur there’s loads of room there” brigade, who’d object to Travellers living anywhere near them but are fine telling faraway countries to settle thousands of illegal immigrants.

I never said that Afghanistan was stable before the war, though, as I understood it, the civil war proper ended in 1998. I said that it was destabilised, ie made less stable. Australia has a greater responsibility to these people as a result.

Re Vietnam, I think that the ongoing impact of the war leads to a moral resposibility on Australia. When I went to Vietnam in 2000 large sections of the country were still deforested due to agent orange and birth defects were still visible due to the same chemical. One boy that I met in a Christina Noble Foundation hospital had what looked like fish scales instead of skin, which constantly itched (all over). Another boy that I saw had legs facing the wrong way below his hips. These are just a few anecdotes- the impact continues and thus so does the responsibility in my view. Is that clearer for you?

Australia had over a thousand troops there, Malaysia had only 2, whilst I don’t think there were any Indonesians. Interesting that you didn’t pick up on the East Timor example.

Regarding language- I’m not aware of any EU countries that restrict immigration based on language skills to other EU member states, so why is it a prerequisite there? Couldn’t they learn it after they arrived?

If someone lands in your country and seeks asylum they are not illegal under international law. They are only ‘illegal’ if they enter the country secretly and don’t apply for asylum or stay after a refused application. So there are no 1000s of illegals as such.

I know that. I lived there for a year drove through the deserts that you mention and met the East Timorese asylum seekers that I mentioned…

Australia has already donated vast sums of aid money to Afghanistan so they are meeting their responsibilities,unless you mean they should throw open their borders to any Afghan who wishes to settle there.
The majority of asylum seekers who arrive on boats come from Afghanistan and Iran.You’re East Timor example is irrelevant since they won their independence in 02.

Re. Vietnam.All shocking examples you listed and I would be of the opinion Australia should pay reparations if it has not done so already,but how is it relevant to Aussie immigration policy?

E.U. immigration policy has been a disaster as evidenced by ethnic ghettos and the rise of the far Right across much of Europe,Australia and Canada for that matter are very wise not to imitate it.

@ Paolo

Get over the language issue and learn to live with it – Australia is an english speaking country. If you want to live and work here you should be able to speak to language. ”Couldn’t they learn it after they arrived?” No because having a decent grasp of the language is necessary in order to be able to fit into the community. Australians do not want enclaves or people being left on the fringes of communities, we want a diverse society made up of people from all walks of life and backgrounds but who all have a common language. No one is being asked to abandon their history language or culture, merely to adapt to standards already in place here.

My wife is Spanish and for her to have her teaching degree and other qualifications recognised in Australia all need to be translated and she has to sit a course and exam proving she can both speak and understand the language to a sufficient level. The whole process is extremely time consuming and expensive but it is 100% correct and i support it completely. It was her choice to move here so she knows its her responsibility to learn the language. No complaints from her either

Who mentioned colour?

So when you said, ” Australia for Australians First” you really meant “Australia for FIRST Australians”…
Either way it has racist undertones…

Ok, you take whatever undertones you want from it but i & most people who read my comment will know what i mean.

Perhaps you could explain it to me though as I don’t understand exactly what you mean.
Do you feel that Irish people shouldn’t be allowed live, work or own property in Australia? If so that’s very racist of you…

Jesus youre mad for the race/colour card. You are the only one whos mentioned it.
Anyone can live, work or own property in any country once you tick all the boxes in terms of the countries regulations. Its not racist, its common sense. Chill, its friday & its a fine fine day.

Enjoy the day..

Don’t go too dark though….you never know…

:D no bother john! Enjoy the weekend!

Arrived where as boat people?

How do you tjink the rudds got to aussie in the 1800 ‘s by plane they were either convicts or emigrants.

Shane, cute ………. But not likely.